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(4,775 posts)
88. Good post
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 11:23 PM
Feb 2014

Small quibble, it's just a point I'd like to make, don't see it represented here much:

"The truth is that the blame belongs to conservatives. It's been long known that people will vote for a real Republican than a Democrat trying to sound like one."

So I think this is a myth. It's long been apparent that people will actually support and vote for a Dem who positions themselves just to the left of the Republican they are running against. It's the slightly better lessor of two evils thing. If people always chose the real Republican rather than a Dem who supports their policies, the whole third way would have collapsed from unelectability.

Sadly, enabled by the "crazy" right-wing, the third way strategy of getting a lot of corporate money, using it to setup a a formidable campaign machine, claim the "center" while punching the left to establish your cred, is often a successful electoral strategy. Fake Republicans running as Dems can and do get elected. Many people think they're doing something a little better by voting for the Dem corporatist rather than for the Republican corporatist, and there's some truth in that.

The problem isn't that it's a failed electoral strategy, the problem is that when these candidates win, they don't represent us, they represent their large campaign donors, the corporations. Ultimately it does our party, and our citizens, great harm. The policies these corporatist Dems get behind taints our party in the eyes of the electorate, they think Dems are the same kind of crooks as Republicans, and perhaps our reps are a little better but the people for the most part have it right, most of our elected Dems are selling us out in the same way the Republicans are, as directed by the oligarchs that support the whole rotten machine.

What we really need to be looking at is how to win elections without corporate money. Running on policies that actually help the average person, speaking truth to power, doing it like Bernie does, that can make up for some of the advantage the better funded corporatists have. We should be exploring mechanisms to help candidates overcome the huge obstacles they face in elections. Money is a powerful thing, but there are other sources of power, such as truth and sincerity. With the internet, there should be ways to amplify and raise awareness about good candidates who are going up against the beast.

Your final statement, about the left's impotence despite being correct on policy, is dead on, and has been for a long time. We only matter when someone wants to blame us. The corporations have created an entire culture of superficial values, consumerism, conformity, glamor, violence, selfishness, and greed. Their media outlets are incredibly powerful in doing so. The left has nothing comparable, left out.

What we do have is a lot of people in pain worried about their future, and we have the truth that our policies are what is needed to address our problems. There's intrinsic power in that. But we have to learn to win elections without corporate money in order to reclaim our party and restore its good name.

Roughly half of Obama's 2008 campaign funds came from small donors. So, when he got into office, did he dance with us, or the corporations? Obviously the corporations. The half of the money coming from small donors was for the most part not aggregated, so as far as leveraging policies from the president, it carried little more weight than the average size of those donations, which was quite small. Besides, as the third way types will tell you in a candid moment, "where are they (the left) going to go?" We'll see the same thing if Hillary is elected. With no credible threat on the left flank, the people are ignored, mostly without consequence for the corporate politician. That's why something like Occupy was so important, and why it was so brutally crushed.

The corporations who wrote huge multi-million dollar checks were the ones Obama listened to (although I think their world-view for the most part aligns with his own). These people have specific legislative agendas their money supports, and they have a direct line to the elected politicians they "bought". One wrong move, and their support vanishes, they'll take their money to the other party, or they'll destroy the politician some other, more immediate way. Small Mom and Pop donors or their proxies in various NGO's aren't even allowed in the room. We get lip service, they (the corporate donors) get legislation.

Is aggregation of small donations the answer? It could help, so long as the aggregator is 100% representing the people rather than some interest of its own. A credible threat of upheaval or revolution would also get their attention. A serious and determined third party on the left would also help. Personally I favor working within the party, possibly using a far-left socialist wing under the Democratic Party tent, whose candidates would be forbidden from taking corporate money. Whatever the answer is, it doesn't involve electing candidates who share and validate the world-view of the corporatists and the Republicans.

All Changed When The Democratic Party Sold Out To The Corporations cantbeserious Feb 2014 #1
And this mostly happened in the 1990s with the creation of the DLC. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #5
capped off with 2000/2001 reddread Feb 2014 #9
The DLC was created in 1985 by, among others, Bill Clinton and Al Gore Recursion Feb 2014 #95
Thanks..........nt Enthusiast Feb 2014 #129
yep frwrfpos Feb 2014 #10
This has been posted year after year after year by someone. Rex Feb 2014 #2
They keep forgetting that ... Scuba Feb 2014 #3
So they must discredit us because they want to continue with their malfeasance. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #8
perfect vid frwrfpos Feb 2014 #11
I play this periodically, LWolf Feb 2014 #140
This nation is clear off the tracks. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #4
yes it is frwrfpos Feb 2014 #12
It was created for just such a purpose. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #13
and racism reddread Feb 2014 #6
thank you frwrfpos Feb 2014 #7
We need to... RichGirl Feb 2014 #14
same here, certainly in the cases of serial sex offenders and lying politicians reddread Feb 2014 #17
Pretty much ever since it became clear that the President was a Conservadim. gLibDem Feb 2014 #15
Wow, seriously?... SidDithers Feb 2014 #57
He's dead, Jim uppityperson Feb 2014 #62
Again... SidDithers Feb 2014 #64
Need to get this out in public... uppityperson Feb 2014 #67
Post removed Post removed Feb 2014 #73
Back again already?... SidDithers Feb 2014 #74
A pity the fool.... NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #80
Because putting up with all the vitriol directed at the Obamas and Clintons from the right TheMathieu Feb 2014 #16
The "vitriol" is well-earned on the blood of dead Americans alone Demeter Feb 2014 #19
NO the vitriol isn't well earned .. it gets down dirty and ugly on the this board.. so much so Cha Feb 2014 #115
Obama and Clintons policies ARE on the right frwrfpos Feb 2014 #21
They're not allies, they are servants. A concept being removed from discussions. n/t Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #44
I tolerate it really joshcryer Feb 2014 #55
Many aren't allies, although they want to be viewed as such Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #61
and Dinos....lots of Dinos! red dog 1 Feb 2014 #94
Continuing to oppose Right Wing policies is not vitriol. It is consistency. sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #87
The usual crap when the peons get restless. Luminous Animal Feb 2014 #18
Oh, the drama. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #20
Dramatic Tantrum.. Cha Feb 2014 #120
you know this is an oldie now but still a goodie! snooper2 Feb 2014 #22
I don't know how I missed that!? Thanks snooper.. Cha Feb 2014 #121
Accept diversity! Divisiveness seems to be the new trend on DU. This is a good example of Coyotl Feb 2014 #23
divisiveness comes from this administration frwrfpos Feb 2014 #24
There you go again, Dem bashing and tossing in a divisive ad hominen for good measure. Coyotl Feb 2014 #36
dem bashing is what this administration does everyday frwrfpos Feb 2014 #39
There you go again, Dem bashing and being divisive. Didn't I already point that ouit? Coyotl Feb 2014 #41
no..point out the right wing love again frwrfpos Feb 2014 #49
There you go again, flame baiting and being divisive. And putting words in my mouth too now. Coyotl Feb 2014 #51
So it seems that anyone who disagrees with you is supporting right wing propaganda? Adrahil Feb 2014 #81
No. Coyotl Feb 2014 #111
Yeah, I blew it. Adrahil Feb 2014 #131
The egotistical arrogance is full blown. Cha Feb 2014 #119
Your post solidifies Ignorance of the highest order. Cha Feb 2014 #117
+10000 dionysus Feb 2014 #100
the Reaganauts were Dem a lot: Kirkpatrick hated the '72 "antiwar, antigrowth, antibusiness, MisterP Feb 2014 #25
has a lot to do with it frwrfpos Feb 2014 #26
The Harlem Globetrotters vs. The Washington Generals, except they take turns being Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #47
lame JI7 Feb 2014 #27
I don't think it is ok but at the same time I'm not into all the Obama bashing either. nt arthritisR_US Feb 2014 #28
Back in the '60s/'70s it was the loyal LBJ/Scoop Jackson Dems that bashed the left. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2014 #29
im old enough to remember frwrfpos Feb 2014 #30
jinx! MisterP Feb 2014 #34
K & R marble falls Feb 2014 #31
thank you frwrfpos Feb 2014 #32
They never did, except among recovering Republicans and home grown Blue Dogs Warpy Feb 2014 #33
Good post dreamnightwind Feb 2014 #88
In the House turnaround in 2010, who lost? Warpy Feb 2014 #92
Yes, Blue Dogs got hosed dreamnightwind Feb 2014 #110
Well you definitly have divisive down... giftedgirl77 Feb 2014 #35
read my op frwrfpos Feb 2014 #37
I did, along with all of your silly ass replies throughout giftedgirl77 Feb 2014 #40
glad you wasted time from this planet frwrfpos Feb 2014 #42
Well at least now you know what the ''gift'' is. :-/ n/t DeSwiss Feb 2014 #48
That's the whole idea! No substance at all. Coyotl Feb 2014 #38
It's obnoxious & childish, it resembles a posting from giftedgirl77 Feb 2014 #43
It's chocked full of ignorance as well as being childishly obnoxious. Poor little thing Cha Feb 2014 #118
Well at least he isn't alone in his feet stomping... giftedgirl77 Feb 2014 #123
Right,far from alone.. "hippie punching" lol.. I don't feel punched. :) Cha Feb 2014 #126
''Battered-Dem-Syndrome'' DeSwiss Feb 2014 #45
Awesome post, dude! Just what was needed! alcibiades_mystery Feb 2014 #46
feel free to post about how Obama or Hillary Clinton should hold hands with republicans frwrfpos Feb 2014 #50
January 19, 2014...ROFL alcibiades_mystery Feb 2014 #77
You poor little abused thing.. wahwahwahwahwah... Cha Feb 2014 #116
such a kind, thoughtful, considerate post joshcryer Feb 2014 #52
its better that Hillary's support for the Honduran right wing Coup frwrfpos Feb 2014 #53
strawman joshcryer Feb 2014 #54
But you *do* recall HRC's support for the RW Honduran coup, delrem Feb 2014 #66
at most they didn't restore him like last time joshcryer Feb 2014 #72
You mean she "condemned it". delrem Feb 2014 #75
uh, no, Honduras was banned from OAS joshcryer Feb 2014 #79
You realize that you're discussing this on DU, and not Reagan/Goldwater central? delrem Feb 2014 #83
The US controls OAS. joshcryer Feb 2014 #86
Just do some reading from a prog perspective on HRC and the Honduran coup, joshcryer. delrem Feb 2014 #89
No I'm not. joshcryer Feb 2014 #91
"Our man" dreamnightwind Feb 2014 #93
Yep. joshcryer Feb 2014 #97
HRC supported the Honduran coup dictatorship. If you support HRC on Honduras '09, then own it. delrem Feb 2014 #96
Here's a random article on the issue: delrem Feb 2014 #98
So you would've supported Zelaya's return by armed force? joshcryer Feb 2014 #108
I do not support it. joshcryer Feb 2014 #101
You blame Zelaya! In order to exhonerate HRC? sheeeeit. delrem Feb 2014 #104
I blame both. joshcryer Feb 2014 #105
As I said: UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE delrem Feb 2014 #107
I've concluded you are ignorant on this subject. joshcryer Feb 2014 #109
Here, some remedial reading: delrem Feb 2014 #113
Thanks, but I have a brain. joshcryer Feb 2014 #114
Every wannabe Lanny Davis has "a brain (sic)". delrem Feb 2014 #125
Please, joshcryer...be kind to our new friend...he or she has only been here three weeks or so alcibiades_mystery Feb 2014 #78
Well.... Bobbie Jo Feb 2014 #90
Another persecution fantasy thread creeksneakers2 Feb 2014 #56
Cannot overlook the strong possibility that sock puppets are being PAID to spread lies/propaganda. blkmusclmachine Feb 2014 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #65
FFS... SidDithers Feb 2014 #59
Hey! It's DU... Bash, punch and bait away! MNBrewer Feb 2014 #60
I punched 8 hippies today! Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #63
I got hippie punched today!.. Cha Feb 2014 #122
something Is very wrong. Whisp Feb 2014 #68
"same as last time but with different names"... SidDithers Feb 2014 #69
Our victim has had trouble expressing himself. And he got a post hidden... freshwest Feb 2014 #84
Whisp, send me a link on this Hamsher thing. I forgot what it was about, never 'got it.' TIA. n/t freshwest Feb 2014 #85
this poster is only making me stronger in my resolve.. so he delivers a big Cha Feb 2014 #124
Anyone who disagres with you is a paid shill... Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #70
Former hippy here, called a communist first when in fourth grade and countless times after that; struggle4progress Feb 2014 #71
When that particular poster was newer TBF Feb 2014 #133
Maybe the OP is just wedge-driving. struggle4progress Feb 2014 #135
Unfortunately TBF Feb 2014 #136
Organizing the masses still remains a good goal struggle4progress Feb 2014 #139
Personally I see that as the main goal - TBF Feb 2014 #142
There's quite a bit of cleaving... countryjake Feb 2014 #138
huh? hrmjustin Feb 2014 #76
IBTL to say... OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #82
Cue the Welcome Back Kotter theme song.. dionysus Feb 2014 #99
Say hi for me! Tarheel_Dem Feb 2014 #102
Everyone blames Nader for putting Bush in office, lob1 Feb 2014 #127
Nader told people Bush was not so bad by saying there was no difference between Bush and Gore JI7 Feb 2014 #128
!!! Tarheel_Dem Feb 2014 #146
There are plenty that hit on every right wing talking point, JoeyT Feb 2014 #103
Not to mention this joint used to be a little A-Schwarzenegger Feb 2014 #106
^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^ +1000000000000000 Coyotl Feb 2014 #112
Yep. Even NJmaverick has managed to slip back in. n/t QC Feb 2014 #141
Something is very wrong when someone thinks fighting for LGBT rights... countryjake Feb 2014 #130
hippies? reds? arely staircase Feb 2014 #132
Not to mention the fact that they are 2 different animals - TBF Feb 2014 #134
I am just wondering how the zootsuiters and flappers feel about all this. nt arely staircase Feb 2014 #143
I'm surprised they weren't included TBF Feb 2014 #145
Opposing homophobia is not 'red baiting' especially when the homophobes are not Bluenorthwest Feb 2014 #137
Hippies? Reds? HappyMe Feb 2014 #144
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