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Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
70. Here's a 2002 NY Times article with more information.
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 11:39 PM
Dec 2013
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/13/weekinreview/word-for-word-case-against-nazis-hitler-s-forces-planned-destroy-german.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm



In the 1920's, as they battled for power, the Nazis realized that the churches in overwhelmingly Christian Germany needed to be neutralized before they would get anywhere. Two-thirds of German Christians were Protestants, belonging to one of 28 regional factions of the German Evangelical Church. Most of the rest were Roman Catholics. On one level, the Nazis saw an advantage. In tumultuous post-World War I Germany, the Christian churches ''had long been associated with conservative ways of thought, which meant that they tended to agree with the National Socialists in their authoritarianism, their attacks on Socialism and Communism, and in their campaign against the Versailles treaty'' that had ended World War I with a bitterly resentful Germany.

But there was a dilemma for Hitler. While conservatives, the Christian churches ''could not be reconciled with the principle of racism, with a foreign policy of unlimited aggressive warfare, or with a domestic policy involving the complete subservience of Church to State.'' Given that these were the fundamental underpinnings of the Nazi regime, ''conflict was inevitable,'' the summary states. It came, as Nazi power surged in the late 1920's toward national domination in the early 30's.

According to Baldur von Schirach, the Nazi leader of the German youth corps that would later be known as the Hitler Youth, ''the destruction of Christianity was explicitly recognized as a purpose of the National Socialist movement'' from the beginning, though ''considerations of expedience made it impossible'' for the movement to adopt this radical stance officially until it had consolidated power, the outline says.

Attracted by the strategic value inherent in the churches' ''historic mission of conservative social discipline,'' the Nazis simply lied and made deals with the churches while planning a ''slow and cautious policy of gradual encroachment'' to eliminate Christianity.



The short answer is that other events prevented Hitler from carrying his plans through to fruition.
I guess Hitler knew Jesus wasn't white! Coyotl Dec 2013 #1
Some religious nutjob distancing himself from Hitler... Ohio Joe Dec 2013 #2
He was referencing the New York Times (nt) Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #3
Well... That makes it so much less batshit crazy... Ohio Joe Dec 2013 #13
Written one month after Pearl Harbor. arcane1 Dec 2013 #53
Remember the stories about Kuwaiti babies thrown from incubators?..nt SidDithers Dec 2013 #54
Lots of DUers favoring Hitler over the New York Times in this thread. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #56
The NYT article is wartime propaganda... SidDithers Dec 2013 #57
So, any story the NYT published about the Nazis during the war, Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #58
Not all of them... SidDithers Dec 2013 #64
I think you need to do more research, not just pull a 1942 article out of the archives. El_Johns Dec 2013 #95
OK. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #99
I have no idea whether Hitler was a "Christian" or not (whatever "Christian" might mean in the El_Johns Dec 2013 #102
Or the "weapons of mass destruction-related program activities"? arcane1 Dec 2013 #74
That blog is serious crazyville... SidDithers Dec 2013 #7
I've added the link to "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William H Shirer (nt) Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #8
William H. Shirer is widely criticized among relevant scholars. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #20
You think he's a 'religious nut job' because he distanced himself from Hitler? sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #48
No. I think he's a religious nut job because I took a look at his blog Ohio Joe Dec 2013 #49
Holy fuck, what a batshit loony site... SidDithers Dec 2013 #4
How about the acclaimed journalist and historian William L Shirer? Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #6
You should read what Shirer said more closely Major Nikon Dec 2013 #110
Are you saying that there are no other sources for this information?? You have not sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #50
No, I'm saying that the sOurce that the OP led with... SidDithers Dec 2013 #52
Since I already knew Hiter's views of Christianity it wasn't necessary to go the site. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #109
Maybe you should go to the site... SidDithers Dec 2013 #112
I don't care about the site. I care about the information which I am more than familiar sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #113
Yeah, sure... SidDithers Dec 2013 #115
It's not my job to educate you about this topic. Google is a great source of information, IF sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #119
Oh I forgot... SidDithers Dec 2013 #120
She does not have to because she already knows that information! treestar Dec 2013 #122
Exactly!! And yes, I DID expain it clearly to Sid. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #123
You must spend a lot of time doing homework treestar Dec 2013 #121
Of course I do, doesn't everyone? Well, ALMOST everyone. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #124
Sid was talking about a particular blog treestar Dec 2013 #125
I stated a FACT. I had no need to read a blog I am not familiar with when sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #126
This message was self-deleted by its author SidDithers Dec 2013 #111
One of my history books records the attempt of the regime to "nazi-ize" even Christmas steve2470 Dec 2013 #5
That's what I understood - initially an agressive nationalization campaign bhikkhu Dec 2013 #16
Nah, even their belt buckles read "god is with us".... They used God like the RW does here... grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #9
No, that's what they kept asking on the Russian front... jberryhill Dec 2013 #12
Owie... bobclark86 Dec 2013 #14
... LAGC Dec 2013 #39
Thread win!!! Glassunion Dec 2013 #41
I was all like ROFL, and then I started picturing the poor bastards, eeech:0 grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #47
Yeah jberryhill Dec 2013 #89
OMFG I'm ROTFLMAO. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #77
I'm sure we agree on plenty jberryhill Dec 2013 #86
Word! Brother Buzz Dec 2013 #15
+1 uponit7771 Dec 2013 #32
that is one weird site JI7 Dec 2013 #10
He should have just waited jberryhill Dec 2013 #11
And this article was in the NYT about a month after Germany declared war on the US Fumesucker Dec 2013 #17
Heh. A New York Times article is unreliable because of what Judith Miller wrote 60 years later. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #24
The first casualty of war is truth. Fumesucker Dec 2013 #26
Perhaps a 2002 article would be better... JHB Dec 2013 #34
Considering that the Reich Church had been extant for nearly 10 years before the article appeared, El_Johns Dec 2013 #103
Totally propaganda crap. defacto7 Dec 2013 #18
Given the totality of what we know about Hitler, Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #22
I agree vdogg Dec 2013 #29
And there was a lot to learn about power and control from the Roman Catholics. arcane1 Dec 2013 #68
I think his ultimate goal would be to bring all power sources exboyfil Dec 2013 #88
So, you tend to give Hitler the benefit of the doubt on this. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #63
... SidDithers Dec 2013 #67
Now there's the twisted sense of reason defacto7 Dec 2013 #114
To suggest that The Third Reich targeted Jews and Christians equally is mindlessly absurd. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #19
That would indeed be absurd. I hope nobody suggested that. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #23
Your own OP suggests it. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #130
It would be mindlessly absurd if anyone had suggested it. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #128
"The way that Hitler could pursue the annihilation of Christianity along with the Jews..." Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #129
SSame as "The Family." blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #21
American neo-Nazis are going to hate this guy. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #25
My thoughts exactly. countryjake Dec 2013 #37
Hitler sought to replace one religion with another in which he was the god. nyquil_man Dec 2013 #27
+1. IMO this has more in common with "prosperity gospel"... JHB Dec 2013 #33
"The Jews and their lies" by Martin Luther The Straight Story Dec 2013 #28
Ri-i-i-ght so Hitler kow-towing to the Pope and kissing the rings of Cardinals intaglio Dec 2013 #30
Yes, he did recruit some Lutheran ministers, along with Bohunk68 Dec 2013 #31
Bonhoeffer was an exception jberryhill Dec 2013 #38
Was not trotting him out Bohunk68 Dec 2013 #43
I don't understand what you mean by "read minds" jberryhill Dec 2013 #44
More about your "some" jberryhill Dec 2013 #42
Someone is trying to rewrite history. B Calm Dec 2013 #35
That's not a reliable source of information. nt el_bryanto Dec 2013 #36
Links to Crazy Town really don't make the 'faith community' look better. Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #40
Hitler used the climate of Christian antisemitism in Germany. He could not have Quixote1818 Dec 2013 #45
I fully agree. And this is in no way inconsistent with the premise of this OP. (nt) Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #82
Kick... SidDithers Dec 2013 #46
Hitler wanted to fill Bundt cake holes with puppy blood! DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #51
I have a NY Times story. What do you have? Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #55
I wouldn't make shit up, no sir. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #59
Some of the very best DUers like to cite the NY Times as a source. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #61
Yes. Some of the best. But this is a diversion from puppy murder. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #65
Here's a 2002 NY Times article with more information. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #70
I am aware that Hitler wasn't a fan of Christianity. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #73
Would you like the NYT stories on Iraq having WMDs? jeff47 Dec 2013 #78
Hmmm. Between the NY Times and Adolf Hitler, who to give the benefit of the doubt? Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #81
Hmmm...Between the NY Times and Saddam Hussein, who to give the benefit of the doubt? jeff47 Dec 2013 #83
What's your point here? Marr Dec 2013 #60
There's been a few recent posts claiming that Hitler was a "devout Catholic" (nt) Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #62
Hmm. Odd to see that trotted out, just as the new Pope is proving so unpopular with rich assholes. Marr Dec 2013 #69
So that's why they had military chaplains in the Wehrmacht! rdharma Dec 2013 #66
And I simply cannot think of any reason why this would have been the case, Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #72
Is your OP an attempt to ..... rdharma Dec 2013 #75
Reminds me of Henry VIII. Re-writing "religion" in ones own image. Cerridwen Dec 2013 #71
Uh-huh. Please explain why he didn't arrest Christians and send them to concentration camps like Zorra Dec 2013 #76
He did. Polish Catholic Clergy and Jehovah's Witnesses in particular. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #80
Not acceptable evidence, IMO. Most "Christians" don't consider JW's "Christian". Zorra Dec 2013 #90
I think you may be a little bit confused. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #93
Well, I may be confused, but I just didn't see any credible sources for the info. Zorra Dec 2013 #97
Here's another source. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #101
Need link and bibliography, please...thanks. nt Zorra Dec 2013 #104
The unfortunate truth is that ..... rdharma Dec 2013 #79
"Hitler and the Nazi party would never have risen to power without appealing to the religious Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #84
Face it.....Nazi Germany was a majority Christian nation. rdharma Dec 2013 #87
I fully agree with that (nt) Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #91
Excuse me, but this "Nazis weren't Christian".... rdharma Dec 2013 #96
He painted roses, too. Gore1FL Dec 2013 #85
Is this suppose to be some type of analogy or comparison with the Obama Administration? YOHABLO Dec 2013 #92
No. You're thinking of the "warning signs of fascism" threads (nt) Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #94
Odd answer to the question. nt rdharma Dec 2013 #98
Extremely odd questions typically get odd answers (nt) Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #100
What a festering pile of OP BS RetroLounge Dec 2013 #105
Thanks. Some interesting food for thought there. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #106
Nazis were Christians. You should learn to deal with that. RetroLounge Dec 2013 #107
. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #108
So you proved you can cut and paste over and over RetroLounge Dec 2013 #116
Perhaps instead of citing and quoting from several sources I should adopt your approach Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #117
No, just keep linking to "Prophecy Proof" RetroLounge Dec 2013 #131
I can't even take this OP seriously when you link to the loony blog "Prophecy Proof". Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #118
Agree 100% rurallib Dec 2013 #127
Ayn Rand was an athiest arely staircase Dec 2013 #132
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