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YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)

110. "What does that have to do with the French colonialists?" Nothing, of course

Reply to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #108)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:05 AM

Nov 2013

Diem was supported by the U.S. until the Kennedy Administration decided that he was a liability to winning the budding war in Vietnam.

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JFK Conference: James DiEugenio made clear how Foreign Policy changed after November 22, 1963 [View all] Octafish Nov 2013 OP

DiEugenio is one of the most interesting guys out there still working this subject, stranger81 Nov 2013 #1

He brought up Edmund GULLION, US diplomat whom JFK counseled in Vietnam in 1951... Octafish Nov 2013 #2

JFK was never a cold war warrior. Wow. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #3

Thanks for the corrective to the magical, naive thinking being espoused in the OP. stopbush Nov 2013 #7

Now, now, stopbush RobertEarl Nov 2013 #9

JFK used Southeast Asia to split the USSR's focus on Germany Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #15

Do some research - find out how many American military advisors were in Nam stopbush Nov 2013 #24

He could have invaded RobertEarl Nov 2013 #27

RFK on JFK & Nam: stopbush Nov 2013 #31

Did you read your own post? RobertEarl Nov 2013 #39

I was in the army in Europe at the time pscot Nov 2013 #258

Kennedy increased the number of Americans in Vietnam from under a thousand to 16,000. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #276

16000 is a long ways from half a million pscot Nov 2013 #279

(Reply #276) david thurman Dec 2015 #288

Sad that a Democratic Forum would remember a murdered Democratic sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #11

Nobody said that, sabrina 1. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #14

kicking......... CanSocDem Nov 2013 #16

Bolo Boffin's is the official meme in Dallas this month. Octafish Nov 2013 #26

You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #30

Because they're presenting a false, romanticized view of history.... YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #43

And you know this, how?? Were you a friend of JFK, there during his administration? sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #48

I'm going to say this again: I'm interested in discussing JFK's assassination. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #45

How about you stop judging people for what interests them? sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #46

I haven't. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #47

Of course it's a waste of effort. nyquil_man Nov 2013 #194

Sad that so many DUers act as apologists for Oswald, the bastard that killed JFK. stopbush Nov 2013 #212

That would be, very sad, if it were true! n/t sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #213

It's true. zappaman Nov 2013 #216

You're welcome to your fantasies, but the evidence says it is true. stopbush Nov 2013 #231

Excuse me?? sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #232

You want facts? The facts are that Oswald killed JFK. stopbush Nov 2013 #234

You acccused me of sympathizing with the killer of JFK. Either retract that or prove it. I have sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #235

If you're saying that Oswald was the killer of JFK, then sure, I'll retract it and apologize. stopbush Nov 2013 #236

You made an egregious accusation. There are no 'conditions' under which an apology sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #237

Jim Replies on JFK as Cold Warrior Jim DiEugenio Nov 2013 #211

+1,000,000 ucrdem Nov 2013 #220

Review Of Jim DiEugenio's Book By Oliver Stone MinM Nov 2013 #252

Where New JFK Evidence Points MinM Nov 2013 #281

Excellent article. Thanks. nt. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #282

JFK stood up to the Cold War hawks who counseled war -- EVERY TIME. Octafish Nov 2013 #17

It's an interesting take on the Cuban Missile Crisis that JFK's real opponents were Americans. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #44

JFK understood leadership. He tried peace first. Octafish Nov 2013 #53

"present day's Money Trumps Peace national policy" - Present day? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #56

Yes. The illegal, lie-based war on Iraq goes straight back to Dallas. Octafish Nov 2013 #85

As I said and you side-stepped, present day implies Barack Obama. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #90

Why this need to control the message, Bolo Boffin? Octafish Nov 2013 #93

The Pedantic Need To Control The Message Is Quite Tedious HangOnKids Nov 2013 #96

Do you often derail your own threads? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #99

How many days? Octafish Nov 2013 #103

Again with silly implications about my motives. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #105

Just because you believe something does not make it so YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #111

Just because you believe something does not make it so HangOnKids Nov 2013 #117

Well and simply put. eom stopbush Nov 2013 #145

Audio tape: LBJ urged taking "every step that we can" to support overthrow of Joao Goulart Octafish Nov 2013 #158

What does that have to do with Oswald killing JFK? stopbush Nov 2013 #178

You must have missed the OP about the change in foreign policy between administrations. Octafish Nov 2013 #179

"The record" shows that there wasn't much change between DDE's foreign policy and JFK's FP. stopbush Nov 2013 #180

No need to be insulting. Here's where you can learn more: Octafish Nov 2013 #182

"little evidence that JFK would have pulled American troops out of Vietnam" Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #165

You should read more and learn. What JFK was doing in Vietnam... Octafish Nov 2013 #222

I found that article long ago Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #224

Read Gareth Porter for more. Octafish Nov 2013 #227

Robert Buzzanco already did. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #229

Great. Read John M. Newman for more. Octafish Nov 2013 #230

Newman is odd. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #238

Newman is profound. Octafish Nov 2013 #243

What "allegations" have I made against Newman? n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #244

Read your post, Bolo Boffin. Octafish Nov 2013 #245

There are no libelous allegations in my post. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #247

You wrote ''Newman is odd.'' Octafish Nov 2013 #248

That's libelous? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #250

You defamed his character, Bolo Boffin. Octafish Nov 2013 #251

The fuck I did, Octafish. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #255

Your words, Bolo Boffin. Octafish Nov 2013 #256

Righteous indignation? Me? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #257

But he didn't really WANT to do that stuff, you see RZM Nov 2013 #38

He never reversed course RobertEarl Nov 2013 #40

Our man Diem: How America Came To Back South Vietnam's Despised And Doomed President (by Seth Jacobs bobthedrummer Nov 2013 #144

"Ick bin ein Berliner" = Cold Warrior??? soundsgreat Nov 2013 #174

Jim Replies Jim DiEugenio Nov 2013 #210

welcome to DU gopiscrap Nov 2013 #214

Bolo Replies to "Jim Replies" Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #228

Jim Replies to Bolo on Vietnam Jim DiEugenio Nov 2013 #240

Bolo Points Out To "Jim Replies" The Link He Missed Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #241

What Bolo Missed Completely Jim DiEugenio Nov 2013 #242

Bolo Points Out That Forrestal Is Not Bundy Which Jim Appears To Be Confused About Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #254

With Bolo, he is always moving the goalposts Jim DiEugenio Nov 2013 #268

Right on Jim DiEugenio. ucrdem Nov 2013 #269

But, wait! You didn't tell us the name of the university you mentor doctoral candidates for! Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #270

But that's not what he wrote. Octafish Nov 2013 #271

Ominous vague pronouncements from Octafish. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #272

Your interaction with DiEugenio shows what you're all about, Bolo Boffin. Octafish Nov 2013 #273

Thank you for your opinion. n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #275

Your interaction with DiEugenio shows what you're all about, Bolo Boffin. zappaman Nov 2013 #274

It bothers me that DiEugenio never managed to mention the university he works for. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #277

Thanks for the time you've taken here, Mr. D. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #280

K&R DeSwiss Nov 2013 #4

DiEugenio said Kennedy was attacked bitterly in Washington for siding with democracy in Congo... Octafish Nov 2013 #18

"Siding with democracy"? Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #66

Excellent point. Octafish Nov 2013 #79

The French had been kicked out of Vietnam for nine years when Diem was killed alcibiades_mystery Nov 2013 #108

"What does that have to do with the French colonialists?" Nothing, of course YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #110

I'm sorry. I assumed readers had a basic understanding of the history of Vietnam. Octafish Nov 2013 #164

A ridiculous response alcibiades_mystery Nov 2013 #169

Only ridiculous if you value supporting Diem, whose power came from corrupt colonialist money. Octafish Nov 2013 #170

Diem was a brutal tyrant supported by the US, including Kennedy, until he became inconvenient alcibiades_mystery Nov 2013 #172

So you understand what Kennedy was trying to do? Octafish Nov 2013 #173

And, JimboBillyBubbaBob Nov 2013 #76

Too close to bedtime to do this justice zeemike Nov 2013 #5

DiEugenio is profound. Octafish Nov 2013 #20

I was not familiar with him before. zeemike Nov 2013 #21

Translation: here's a bunch of evidence-bereft CT books I've read before writing my own stopbush Nov 2013 #25

That's not true at all, stopbush. Octafish Nov 2013 #36

Pot, meet kettle. stopbush Nov 2013 #82

Show where I'm wrong. Otherwise don't libel me. Octafish Nov 2013 #83

In the past, I've spent (wasted?) plenty of time showing you where you are wrong. stopbush Nov 2013 #92

Bugliosi presents only information that supports his theory. Octafish Nov 2013 #94

Bullshit. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #101

Why the indignation, Bolo Boffin? Octafish Nov 2013 #141

Your problem is that you give way too much credence to little tidbits of opinion stopbush Nov 2013 #142

Have you even read Bugliosi? Be honest, because I don't see how you would make such a statement stopbush Nov 2013 #143

No, I haven't read his book. The great DUer H20 Man did and wrote interesting things about it. Octafish Nov 2013 #146

"No, I haven't read his book." That says it all, does it not? stopbush Nov 2013 #150

So what? I did read the Warren Report. Octafish Nov 2013 #154

I don't have an open mind on the JFK killing, You're right there. stopbush Nov 2013 #177

A hatchet job? Really? stopbush Nov 2013 #181

So what are you so worried about then? DUers are pretty smart people, sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #120

that's interesting gopiscrap Nov 2013 #6

DiEugenio blasted Bill O'Reilly and his Nixon-stained GOP boss, Roger Ailes... Octafish Nov 2013 #22

yup gopiscrap Nov 2013 #23

k and r bbgrunt Nov 2013 #8

DiEugenio pegged the Dulles Brothers in public to the proverbial wall. Octafish Nov 2013 #29

Allen Dulles should have been a suspect. Eddie Haskell Nov 2013 #190

David Talbot called Dulles, ''the Chairman of the Board of the Assassination.'' Octafish Nov 2013 #191

"John F. Kennedy was never a Cold Warrior" ucrdem Nov 2013 #10

Who is the 'fake left'? sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #12

That is a great question. What is this poster implying? The Conserva-Dems have been rhett o rick Nov 2013 #49

DiEugenio has written about the Right killing off the JFK Legacy (New Frontier), too... Octafish Nov 2013 #34

Great article, recommended to all. ucrdem Nov 2013 #57

Sorry...no Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #13

JFK in the Senate, April 6, 1954: "to pour money, máteriel, and men ucrdem Nov 2013 #28

1954? Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #59

I think you need to read up on what Kennedy actually wrote and said. ucrdem Nov 2013 #62

I think you do. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #63

I don't suppose you have a print source for that? ucrdem Nov 2013 #64

I have a video: Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #65

But only of the last part, which is unobjectionable. ucrdem Nov 2013 #67

... Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #68

Attaboy. ucrdem Nov 2013 #70

I wouldn't say Kennedy "ordered" the Diem coup Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #71

Re E. Howard Hunt's forged diplomatic cables tying Kennedy to the Diem assassination: Mc Mike Nov 2013 #73

You say "Re: Hunt's forged cables" like I said something about them. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #74

Just pointing out the indisputable fact of the existence of the forgeries, BB. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #84

That doesn't change the indisputable fact that Kennedy let the coup happen. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #88

Actually, yes. What JFK wanted was different than what Pentagon, State and CIA delivered. Octafish Nov 2013 #135

No, JFK didn't want Diem assassinated. But they OKed the coup. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #151

We see things differently. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #160

Clearly. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #163

'Cold Warrior' means different things for different people. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #187

And the truth is in between, but closer to hardline than appeaser. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #193

I agree with you about the dictabelt evidence. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #198

Well, that's a start. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #202

Here's an excerpt from HSCA, p. 258; Mc Mike Nov 2013 #208

"dozens of right wing gun nuts turned out to a restaurant in Dallas" - wasn't that incredible? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #209

I'd say we agree on a lot of good Democratic issues, if not the one brought up by the o.p. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #239

+1 Thank you. YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #42

Could you expand on that comment please? 'Magical thinking'! What does that sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #52

I would like some clarification on that comment as well n/t HangOnKids Nov 2013 #97

That's an excellent article by Noam Chomsky. n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #55

It's 21 years out of date and seriously deficient historically. ucrdem Nov 2013 #58

"seriously deficient historically" - feel free to back that up any time now. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #60

Chomsky: "Changes of Administration, including the Kennedy assassination, had no large-scale effect ucrdem Nov 2013 #61

Handwaving. n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #69

American foreign policy *has* been remarkalby stable over the years YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #114

Simplistic, reductive and misleading. ucrdem Nov 2013 #115

Thanks for covering the event here. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #19

The main stream media and academia have foisted the Big Lie... Octafish Nov 2013 #159

Your thread last year on the assassination helped me Mc Mike Nov 2013 #161

That there is, is self evident hootinholler Nov 2013 #32

Wow, a nation on a criminal path since November 22, 1963, and since the Gulf of Tonkin, a series of indepat Nov 2013 #33

DiEugenio's website is ctka.net Playful Piranha Nov 2013 #35

K & R !!! WillyT Nov 2013 #37

"JFK was never a Cold Warrior" YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #41

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Nov 2013 #98

Yes, there has been lots of historical revisionism going on. Now we are sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #107

How about this... YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #109

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Nov 2013 #119

Thanks for your Continuing Reporting on This! KoKo Nov 2013 #50

This message was self-deleted by its author rhett o rick Nov 2013 #51

This message was self-deleted by its author Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #54

You are right. I deleted my post. I just find that the obsession to lock or hide posts to rhett o rick Nov 2013 #75

And I find the obsession to break DU rules to be just as disruptive. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #89

Open minded liberals recognize that little is black and white. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #100

I want you to wander through this very thread at your leisure. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #102

Oh I see it. It's the conservatives that want to believe that Oswald acted alone. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #106

Yes, I'm a conservative... YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #112

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Nov 2013 #116

IMO those that are open-minded and willing to listen to different views are usually liberals. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #136

There is nothing liberal or conservative about thinking Oswald acted alone. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #113

You are entitled to your opinion. The majority of people on the planet sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #121

More Meta bullshit out of you. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #122

Thanks for keeping this thread kicked HangOnKids Nov 2013 #123

I'm happy to keep the thread kicked, HangOnKids. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #124

I've read the thread HangOnKids Nov 2013 #125

Goodbye, then. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #126

Ordering people around now? 'Move on'? sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #127

Move. On. n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #129

Move on to what? I have no problem with this thread so why should I sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #130

Then start fucking talking about the damn topic instead of harassing me! Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #131

You are harassing me. You are attempting to tell me what to do, you are sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #133

In EVERY instance where we are having a "talk" on this thread Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #149

Not what I said at all. I said conservatives want to believe that Oswald acted alone. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #139

Most conservatives I know are gleeful that Ds buy into the JFK Cts. stopbush Nov 2013 #147

You win the thread. zappaman Nov 2013 #148

You don't win a thread by being so spectacularly wrong. sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #166

"Right Wingers WANT the world to believe that the 'commie did it alone'." zappaman Nov 2013 #167

I'm sure there are some Right Wingers, in fact I know THERE are sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #168

Most Democrats I know are furious the perpetrators have not been brought to justice. Octafish Nov 2013 #156

The perpetrator (singular) in the JFK case was Oswald. Case closed. The evidence is overwhelming. stopbush Nov 2013 #176

I doubt that they are gleeful. You are making a false equivalency when rhett o rick Nov 2013 #157

I'm not claiming there were "not conspiracies in any of the assassinations." Just in JFK's case. stopbush Nov 2013 #175

You couldn't be more wrong. It drives Right Wingers insane when sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #162

It is, very disruptive and costing DU many members who are sick of it also. sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #118

I'm surprised you didn't whine about the alert in ATA... SidDithers Nov 2013 #72

So what did I post that isn't true? Octafish Nov 2013 #77

So you call it "housekeeping"? And you consider yourself the Housekeeper? rhett o rick Nov 2013 #80

Whatever... SidDithers Nov 2013 #87

I think the hosts of GD do a fantastic job. Just because sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #132

Oh, it's you again... SidDithers Nov 2013 #134

Here let me help you so you understand the hosts' decision here. sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #137

tl:dr... SidDithers Nov 2013 #138

Didn't expect YOU to be. But I'm happy to know that a majority sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #140

"Cold Warrior" H2O Man Nov 2013 #78

Thank you, H2O Man. Octafish Nov 2013 #95

One of the things H2O Man Nov 2013 #104

Everyone should read "JFK and the Unspeakable" by Jim Douglass to clear up the Cold Warrior thing. Zen Democrat Nov 2013 #81

I found it to be very well documented, as well. deutsey Nov 2013 #128

Yeah, I've read it, I'm not in the dark, and it's a mess. stopbush Nov 2013 #152

Warren Commission Member John J. McCloy certainly helped to change/shape policies pre/post 11-23-63. bobthedrummer Nov 2013 #86

McCloy was against the Diem coup Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #153

McCloy and Dulles have important NAZI links that are largely forgotten. Octafish Nov 2013 #186

Some of US will never forget that simple fact, will we, despite what the perception managers peddle. bobthedrummer Nov 2013 #188

Didn't know that about Hunt. avaistheone1 Nov 2013 #192

Advancing the interests of Big Money, Big Oil and Big Wars for Profit. Oilwellian Nov 2013 #91

Octafish, thanks for the report on James DiEugenio's presentation. avaistheone1 Nov 2013 #155

Jim Garrison, Larry King, and RFK MinM Nov 2013 #171

Jim DiEugenio podcast (11/07/13) MinM Nov 2013 #197

Great report, Octafish! I wish I could have been there. CTKA rocks! robertpaulsen Nov 2013 #183

Thank you for the heads-up, robertpaulsen! Boggs had his doubts... Octafish Nov 2013 #199

Joan Mellen is a national treasure... Octafish Nov 2013 #200

James Douglass was in town... Octafish Nov 2013 #201

Keep up the great reporting! Was Josiah Thompson there? robertpaulsen Nov 2013 #205

Dr. Thompson was at Duquesne Conference... Octafish Nov 2013 #206

That is making MY hair stand on end! robertpaulsen Nov 2013 #207

Did Sabato say anything about his study that showed the Dictabelt evidence is useless? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #215

Can I take a guess as to the answer? zappaman Nov 2013 #217

Sabato? I would have expected him to. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #218

Are you monitoring every word I write, Bolo Boffin? Octafish Nov 2013 #219

Stop making those accusations immediately. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #221

No, I won't. You pop up on every post I write on the subject of JFK. Octafish Nov 2013 #223

So? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #225

''Stop hijacking your own freaking OP to discuss me and get back to the topic.'' Octafish Nov 2013 #226

Meta. n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #233

Dude. Octafish Nov 2013 #246

Now you're just being random. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #249

Thank you zappaman Nov 2013 #259

Yeay! Tag Team. Octafish Nov 2013 #260

You must be confused again...my reply was to another DUer. zappaman Nov 2013 #261

Not at all. This is a discussion board, remember? Octafish Nov 2013 #262

Thanks for reminding me! zappaman Nov 2013 #263

DUers need to know that your source is an ultraconservative right winger. Octafish Nov 2013 #265

Genetic fallacy. n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #266

I appreciate it. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #267

After JFK was.... adavid Nov 2013 #184

K&R woo me with science Nov 2013 #185

What did you think of Gary L. Aguilar, M.D.? Eddie Haskell Nov 2013 #189

While I don't know him personally, I think the world of the guy. Octafish Nov 2013 #195

I wish Eddie Haskell Nov 2013 #196

I used to believe in JFK CTs The Midway Rebel Nov 2013 #203

K & R defacto7 Nov 2013 #204

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #253

Interesting coincidence aikoaiko Nov 2013 #264

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #278

Where New JFK Evidence Points Octafish Nov 2013 #283

Don't forget my latest, its really moving around Jim DiEugenio Nov 2013 #284

NAZI-CIA; October Surprise; Bush-Moon Axis; Corporate McPravda... Octafish Nov 2013 #285

"Good DUers"? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #286

JFK's Embrace of Third World Nationalists Octafish Dec 2013 #287