IIRC, didn't the US firebombs kill lots more people? (Reply #216)

In the discussion thread: Hiroshima - quit lying to yourselves [View all]

Tue Aug 6, 2013, 01:34 PM

216. IIRC, didn't the US firebombs kill lots more people?

Not only in Japan, but also in Germany?

And as for the OP.
The battles on those tiny islands in the Pacific were some of the most brutal of the war. For both sides.
Handfuls of Japanese troops held out longer than expected and fought to the death against overwhelming numbers of US troops.
Imagine our troops invading Japan proper.
It would have been a bloodbath like none we've ever seen.

And the death toll on both sides would have made the death tolls from Nagasaki and Hiroshima pale in comparison.

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477 replies	Author	Time	Post
Hiroshima - quit lying to yourselves [View all]	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	OP
My dad was a Marine slated to be in the first wave of the invasion force.	tumtum	Aug 2013	#1
I forgot...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#5
Yes, my dad's life was worth more than a nation that was trying it's best	tumtum	Aug 2013	#14
There are no warlike people...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#23
Every one of those so called civilians were being trained to resist the invasion	tumtum	Aug 2013	#45
Whatever it takes for you to justify the nuclear incineration of a million people, I guess	Scootaloo	Aug 2013	#353
By your standard the Nazis in 1945 were defending their homeland.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#368
We're not talking about invading a country or changing a regime.	Scootaloo	Aug 2013	#438
If we had not removed their gov't, we would have fought them again in 20 years.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#453
They were being trained to kill invading soldiers... That just doesn't sound as blood-thirsty and	Ed Suspicious	Aug 2013	#356
Those civilians fully supported the war effort and willingly sent their sons off to kill innocents	hack89	Aug 2013	#81
Women and children are innocent bystanders, civilized people do not kill women and children	Dragonfli	Aug 2013	#150
Isn't it time to let someone else wear the hair shirt? nt	hack89	Aug 2013	#163
Isn't it time to admit that the lives of children are worth less to you than a side order of fries?	Dragonfli	Aug 2013	#166
I don't believe that. nt	hack89	Aug 2013	#174
You certainly appear to. /nt	Dragonfli	Aug 2013	#181
Calling people psychopath and sociopaths is against the TOS	davidpdx	Aug 2013	#352
really? Unlike our people, who didn't support our troops?	NoMoreWarNow	Aug 2013	#239
The Japanese were within their rights to attack the American mainland	hack89	Aug 2013	#268
Were they within their rights to bomb Pearl Harbor?	Bake	Aug 2013	#289
No - that was unprovoked aggression	hack89	Aug 2013	#293
Actually, it wasn't unprovoked aggression.	ET Awful	Aug 2013	#376
And the sanctions were in response to Japanese aggression in China	hack89	Aug 2013	#381
Sure, but my analogy still stands. . .	ET Awful	Aug 2013	#382
So did and do we	Politicalboi	Aug 2013	#455
Any other way would have led to more civilian deaths	hack89	Aug 2013	#459
Do you say the same about Obamas war crimes?	rl6214	Aug 2013	#221
You have no idea the militarism and regimentation conditioned upon the Japanese citizens under	Nanjing to Seoul	Aug 2013	#371
So, women and children were fair game. Got it.	NoMoreWarNow	Aug 2013	#442
Nanjing. Unit 731. The Japanese people supported these.	Nanjing to Seoul	Aug 2013	#450
so I guess you won't bother to read my response after you grossly misinterpret my post	NoMoreWarNow	Aug 2013	#461
Your attitude that the A-bomb was wrong because it killed women and children. . .that's where	Nanjing to Seoul	Aug 2013	#463
I understand your POV	NoMoreWarNow	Aug 2013	#470
sometimes when taking the high road your legs get cut off at the feet	Nanjing to Seoul	Aug 2013	#471
I think Jesus said that in one of the parables: "Stop genocide by killing twice as many of them"	NoMoreWarNow	Aug 2013	#477
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Aug 2013	#464
I get your point but if we hadnt goaded the japanese into war we wouldnt have needed to bomb them	boomer55	Aug 2013	#98
"Goaded them into war"?	Spider Jerusalem	Aug 2013	#130
It is much more complicated than that. There are lots of reasons to think FDR wanted the Japanese	NoMoreWarNow	Aug 2013	#241
Unless the Allied powers turned back the Axis	One_Life_To_Give	Aug 2013	#329
Pull out your Crystal Ball then and tell us what FDR was thinking	Nanjing to Seoul	Aug 2013	#457
I like your tagline and I think it should be used in this case.	boomer55	Aug 2013	#290
It's not really much more complicated than that.	Spider Jerusalem	Aug 2013	#334
imagine if we had guys like these running the show during WWII...	dionysus	Aug 2013	#318
Hiroshima was a mistake, but	DonCoquixote	Aug 2013	#212
The Third Reich had been defeated months before the bombs dropped.	Ken Burch	Aug 2013	#299
they still killed 22 Million Chinese	DonCoquixote	Aug 2013	#362
The Japanese war machine did do that.	Ken Burch	Aug 2013	#437
Try this book.	oneshooter	Aug 2013	#466
I understand, better to kill thousands of women and children civilians than risk your soldier dad.	Dragonfli	Aug 2013	#142
Hey, you're free to think whatever you want of me.	tumtum	Aug 2013	#154
Post removed	Post removed	Aug 2013	#161
As I said, you're free to think whatever you want of me,	tumtum	Aug 2013	#167
My dad was also a Marine preparing for the invasion of Japan. Casualty estimates were high.	Dollface	Aug 2013	#238
"Stimson estimated that conquering Japan would cost ... five to ten million Japanese fatalities."	Nuclear Unicorn	Aug 2013	#417
This type of over the top rhetoric	COLGATE4	Aug 2013	#190
Rejected. Your uh dad needs a better lawyer. "Is mother proud of little boy today?" n/t	Catherina	Aug 2013	#194
Both my father and mother are gone, but thanks for the insult.	tumtum	Aug 2013	#200
My Dad is 91 and a veteran of Normandy and...	meaculpa2011	Aug 2013	#372
It's not a matter of one life....	cab67	Aug 2013	#211
That assumes we had to invade to end the war.	Sirveri	Aug 2013	#360
I'm not entirely sure that's true.	cab67	Aug 2013	#365
The Japanese still had lots to defend the home islands with.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#377
Correct, the blockade was the alternative.	Sirveri	Aug 2013	#433
Starvation would have killed millions. N/T	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#452
So starving hundreds of thousands to death was the moral alternative to the atomic bombs?	hack89	Aug 2013	#460
I don't know, because we didn't go that route.	Sirveri	Aug 2013	#465
As a small side note:	oneshooter	Aug 2013	#448
As a small side note:	oneshooter	Aug 2013	#449
No, but it wasn't quite that simple	MJ66	Aug 2013	#217
"Murica"	rl6214	Aug 2013	#219
Why would it have been better to kill more of them conventionally? n/t	Gore1FL	Aug 2013	#375
You don't know what you're talking about.	Grins	Aug 2013	#412
Same here	liberal N proud	Aug 2013	#35
That is still not justification for what was done	Marrah_G	Aug 2013	#94
Your appeal falls on deaf ears, the lives of thousands of women and children mean less	Dragonfli	Aug 2013	#178
The morality of any war is decided by the victors.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#205
History is what it is. Once we knew the bomb worked this "invasion force" became a bluff...	hunter	Aug 2013	#101
Thousands of troops weren't sent steaming toward Japan for a "bluff".	Waiting For Everyman	Aug 2013	#262
The entire military apparatus was not appraised of the situation.	hunter	Aug 2013	#297
"only then would U.S. troops take the Japanese mainland"	Waiting For Everyman	Aug 2013	#315
Nevertheless, Japan did surrender.	hunter	Aug 2013	#324
I'm sorry that isn't even plausible.	Waiting For Everyman	Aug 2013	#326
Operation Downfall is not a myth and yes Virginia it would have cost may more lives	davidpdx	Aug 2013	#348
See this post... I agree with it.	hunter	Aug 2013	#357
I do realize the scale and intensity of the Manhattan project	davidpdx	Aug 2013	#400
False movie drama...	hunter	Aug 2013	#439
It was immense at the time because we had spent 5 years building it up	davidpdx	Aug 2013	#440
Yes, we had plans to invade Japan in a horrible battle.	hunter	Aug 2013	#443
I've got to agree	Yo_Mama	Aug 2013	#105
Well put	davidpdx	Aug 2013	#469
Not true. My mom was there.	tblue	Aug 2013	#110
Sounds more like an irrational emotional response than a cogent argument	whatchamacallit	Aug 2013	#122
Irrational to you,	tumtum	Aug 2013	#125
The Japanese were already discussing terms of surrender	jberryhill	Aug 2013	#131
You are badly misinformed.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#195
Nope.	jeff47	Aug 2013	#305
Yup, same as my husband's father. They were warned THREE times, for fuck's sake.	whathehell	Aug 2013	#145
Very true	BobbyBoring	Aug 2013	#209
Uh, dude? You need to read your own quote more closely.	Th1onein	Aug 2013	#214
You're right, my dad was being sent to be in the first stage invasion too.	Waiting For Everyman	Aug 2013	#218
I know my grandpa worked on one of the planes that dropped it	PatrynXX	Aug 2013	#244
I'm sure there's quite a few of us here who wouldn't be were it not for those bombs	independentpiney	Aug 2013	#301
Did you actually read the quote? Specifically sentence #2?	WinkyDink	Aug 2013	#339
They weren't ready to surrender until the 2nd bomb was exploded,	tumtum	Aug 2013	#341
EXACTLY!!!	SkyDaddy7	Aug 2013	#366
Another one here	beemer27	Aug 2013	#367
The A-Bombs were a message to the Soviets.	rdharma	Aug 2013	#476
And...we're off!	Brickbat	Aug 2013	#2
In more ways than one.	Dr. Strange	Aug 2013	#3
Vegas odds, anybody? nt	MrScorpio	Aug 2013	#25
Wow, 2nd response now 4th from the last of over 350	Thor_MN	Aug 2013	#369
my grandfather would have been on the ships for the invasion, after they	geek tragedy	Aug 2013	#4
I don't have to justify anything	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#6
Then this post wasn't for you.	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#8
Than by all means post	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#13
If you don't cry over Hiroshima...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#18
Because "you" say so?	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#42
+1000.	tumtum	Aug 2013	#51
+1 000 000 000	kestrel91316	Aug 2013	#82
"I'll save my tears for those who didn't attack us and those families decimated by the Axis powers".	whathehell	Aug 2013	#153
Agreed.	closeupready	Aug 2013	#185
Another + 100,000.	COLGATE4	Aug 2013	#196
You want to feel self righteous by having a guilt trip over it, go ahead.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#203
I think you meant to answer someone else	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#208
OOPS. Sorry. In long threads like this I sometimes respond to the wrong one.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#235
No Man is an Island	Th1onein	Aug 2013	#226
Is this satire?	LordGlenconner	Aug 2013	#71
Go look it up. Didn't you take history in school?	Th1onein	Aug 2013	#309
Irrational Revisionism... we dropped the bomb. Get over it.	DontTreadOnMe	Aug 2013	#398
As long as you won't justify the killing of my 14 relatives at pearl harbor.	William769	Aug 2013	#7
Wait...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#11
Japan aligned themselves with Hitler	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#17
You're justifying Pearl Harbor? I call troll. nt	geek tragedy	Aug 2013	#24
I can justify...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#26
"preventative military strike" = troll nt	geek tragedy	Aug 2013	#30
Lol, I thought I = American policy.	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#39
Was the incineration of Tokyo smaller, or just not a 'terrorist act'?	cthulu2016	Aug 2013	#47
And Dresden.	truebluegreen	Aug 2013	#128
So your idea of justifying nuclear annihilation of cities...	JackRiddler	Aug 2013	#364
The largest single terrorist act in human history?	tumtum	Aug 2013	#61
Here's what I believe...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#74
NO.	tumtum	Aug 2013	#78
Which fact is wrong? Bombing the hell out of Japan was meant to terrorize them.	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#164
How about the rape of Nanking? Over 300,000 murdered by the Japanese,	tumtum	Aug 2013	#175
No. Terrorism and extermination are not the same thing. n/t	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#258
Did...	Lancero	Aug 2013	#302
Still no. The extermination of the Jews was meant to exterminate them, not scare them.	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#338
The climate	Lancero	Aug 2013	#342
wrong spot. nt	Javaman	Aug 2013	#385
You're grasp of history of that time is just appalling	Javaman	Aug 2013	#386
The only thing that's appalling is your ability to read and comprehend. n/t	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#395
Oh what a clever retort.	Javaman	Aug 2013	#397
Wasn't being clever, just honest and factual.	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#434
Gassing the hell out of innocent people. nt	William769	Aug 2013	#343
Can't be terrorized when you're already dead. n/t	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#379
Holy cow!	Javaman	Aug 2013	#388
No, if we wanted terror we'd have just kept with the firebombings	jeff47	Aug 2013	#346
So you are really referring to the fire bombing of Tokyo 9 March 1945	hack89	Aug 2013	#96
I guess you never learned about Temujin.	hobbit709	Aug 2013	#97
Hah.	Spider Jerusalem	Aug 2013	#144
I love how you guys	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#149
"greatest terrorist act in history"...	Spider Jerusalem	Aug 2013	#156
I said single greatest...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#159
Plus, those weren't "terrorist" acts. They weren't meant to scare anyone. n/t	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#168
You really believe that the use of atomic weapons wasn't meant to scare anyone?	ET Awful	Aug 2013	#378
You need to learn to read. My argument is that using atomic bombs WAS meant to terrorize.	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#380
You need to keep your snark in check.	ET Awful	Aug 2013	#383
You're right. It's my fault. n/t	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#384
No?	Spider Jerusalem	Aug 2013	#170
You're quite free to leave, nobody's forcing you to post here.	tumtum	Aug 2013	#160
Well that does explain it.	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#165
Yep. Seems to ultimately be the argument by many on this topic. n/t	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#169
As opposed to yours and his arguments?	tumtum	Aug 2013	#180
Correct. I'm against killing anyone that's innocent. You, apparantely, are okay with it. n/t	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#259
For me it does, and that's all that matters,	tumtum	Aug 2013	#171
I respect your feelings...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#182
Really? We are, we don't	nadinbrzezinski	Aug 2013	#191
Really?	tumtum	Aug 2013	#207
Wrong Again	4Q2u2	Aug 2013	#222
It seems like you can't see the difference between soldier and innocent civilian.	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#261
If you have civilians ready to kill you, then no,	tumtum	Aug 2013	#275
Finally. Why didn't you say that a long time ago. 'During wartime, killing civilians is fine.'	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#279
Why should it have to have been said?	tumtum	Aug 2013	#282
Stopping further atrocities is not terrorizing	rl6214	Aug 2013	#317
You are sort of correct.	Jenoch	Aug 2013	#224
It was a mass killing of mostly civilians.	godai	Aug 2013	#403
I love this revisionist history	nadinbrzezinski	Aug 2013	#70
+1	AngryOldDem	Aug 2013	#124
It wasn't even the deadliest attack in WWII, much less history. nt	hack89	Aug 2013	#85
LOL, "preventative" strike. Get your terms straight. Then we'll talk. nt	DevonRex	Aug 2013	#257
here's a shovel, keep digging...	dionysus	Aug 2013	#320
+ fucking 1	Dr. Strange	Aug 2013	#12
A. Fucking. Men. William769. You rock.	closeupready	Aug 2013	#188
Could have been different	4Q2u2	Aug 2013	#9
Wahahahahaha! They'd been talking surrender for MONTHS!	Th1onein	Aug 2013	#248
Read the original Post from Phillyindie	4Q2u2	Aug 2013	#260
Crickets	4Q2u2	Aug 2013	#272
You forgot the "I'm kidding" smilie	cliffordu	Aug 2013	#10
Please enlightened me...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#15
I don't think you are ready to hear this but estimates are that as many as 1 million U.S.	HardTimes99	Aug 2013	#29
Japanese were talking surrender	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#41
There were no official or formal peace negotiations going on, I'm sorry	HardTimes99	Aug 2013	#54
because talking about something is the SAME THING as doing it, right?	GalaxyHunter	Aug 2013	#59
And while "talking surrender" they were MASSIVELY FORTIFYING Kyushu. For nothing???	Waiting For Everyman	Aug 2013	#298
Don't bring in MacArthur.	former9thward	Aug 2013	#64
MacArthur was supreme Allied commander of Pacific forces. Without the decision to use	HardTimes99	Aug 2013	#77
This message was self-deleted by its author	ieoeja	Aug 2013	#227
Truman was president both times. N/T	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#240
This message was self-deleted by its author	ieoeja	Aug 2013	#247
Right it was all political.	former9thward	Aug 2013	#312
This message was self-deleted by its author	ieoeja	Aug 2013	#328
Ike's comments were extremely political	jeff47	Aug 2013	#345
No his comments were in 1945.	former9thward	Aug 2013	#347
Sorry, no.	jeff47	Aug 2013	#393
And there were hundreds of people alive then who would know the truth.	former9thward	Aug 2013	#394
Because as I said above	jeff47	Aug 2013	#396
The Japanese were getting ready to surrender.	former9thward	Aug 2013	#401
Japanese Emperor Hirohito disagrees with your revisionism.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#411
Yeah i guess Eisenhower, MacArthur were idiots.	former9thward	Aug 2013	#413
Hirohito was the one who did the surrendering.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#418
Except he did not surrender.	former9thward	Aug 2013	#424
Hirohito DID do the surrendering	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#427
Nice try at re-writing history.	former9thward	Aug 2013	#432
The Soviets were no threat to Japan.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#451
Silly	ProfessorGAC	Aug 2013	#55
I didn't realize...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#80
Hiroshima bombing	yeoman6987	Aug 2013	#202
The Japanese alliance with the Nazis was sufficient for that, and it ENDED the war.	kestrel91316	Aug 2013	#93
No it did not end the war.	former9thward	Aug 2013	#314
Total war is so far removed from current human memory...	SidDithers	Aug 2013	#16
Funny you don't mention that the first two cities to be firebombed were	William769	Aug 2013	#28
We bombed Coventry and London?	zipplewrath	Aug 2013	#58
Are you serious?	William769	Aug 2013	#69
Are you?	zipplewrath	Aug 2013	#79
Because the two are related.	William769	Aug 2013	#83
Ha	zipplewrath	Aug 2013	#99
I was trying to think of British cities too...	SidDithers	Aug 2013	#179
war is hell, Rape of Nanking: 1937-1938 300,000 Deaths	Baclava	Aug 2013	#19
Uh huh, and America's response was...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#27
What do you suppose started the US-Japan war?	cthulu2016	Aug 2013	#44
The economic sanctions that led to Pearl Harbor. nt	hack89	Aug 2013	#86
i've scheduled it for tomorrow's 'two minutes guilt'	markiv	Aug 2013	#20
I hold you personally responsible for the Battle of Gettysburg.	Orrex	Aug 2013	#37
and i'm holding YOU responsible for any debauchery that may or may	markiv	Aug 2013	#40
I was young. I needed the money.	Orrex	Aug 2013	#49
lol nt	markiv	Aug 2013	#65
Oh, is it one of the DU Street Cred Development Days again?	Dreamer Tatum	Aug 2013	#21
So I guess Iraqi...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#34
Fail. Pathetic. nt	Dreamer Tatum	Aug 2013	#38
Can't see your hypocrisy, can you.	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#62
Hypocrisy?	tumtum	Aug 2013	#76
I'm rubber, you're glue	Wednesdays	Aug 2013	#118
Why are you attacking this guy?	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#284
Thanks to the Israelis	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#48
Iraq	yeoman6987	Aug 2013	#215
This message was self-deleted by its author	ieoeja	Aug 2013	#267
Iraq	yeoman6987	Aug 2013	#344
This message was self-deleted by its author	ieoeja	Aug 2013	#391
The "highjackers" were Arab and Saddam had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.	Mnemosyne	Aug 2013	#349
Victors get to try the losers for war crimes.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#230
Himmler committed suicide when his disguise was discovered.	ryan_cats	Aug 2013	#414
OK. Thanks. Substitute some other high Nazi that was hanged. N/T	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#419
Not enough unfortunately.	ryan_cats	Aug 2013	#475
Of all the various cruelties of Imperial Japan, its enslavement of Korean women	HardTimes99	Aug 2013	#66
You can look at ghosts in the rear view mirror all you want.	cherokeeprogressive	Aug 2013	#22
I only wish it could have been done sooner.	The Link	Aug 2013	#31
Like, in 1861?	Wednesdays	Aug 2013	#120
A wide factual understanding of the history of strategic bombing and	cthulu2016	Aug 2013	#32
really?	NoMoreWarNow	Aug 2013	#232
A successful 60+ year Godzilla franchise is all the justification I need	Orrex	Aug 2013	#33
Although the Godzilla film with Matthew Broderick...	Dr. Strange	Aug 2013	#50
That film does not exist.	Orrex	Aug 2013	#53
That was a crime. I ended up rooting for Godzilla, a comet, anything to kill those wretched actors!	freshwest	Aug 2013	#333
You must watch pacific rim	nadinbrzezinski	Aug 2013	#75
Won't get to see it on the big screen, alas	Orrex	Aug 2013	#103
We did...for some odd reason it was a hit in Japan	nadinbrzezinski	Aug 2013	#106
Good film? My grandsons are itching to see it, hopefully at the local drivein!	Mnemosyne	Aug 2013	#351
That is perfect for a drive in	nadinbrzezinski	Aug 2013	#355
Thanks nadin. They are 12 & 13, perfect for that age group then, but sounds very loud going by the	Mnemosyne	Aug 2013	#358
It is a tad loud	nadinbrzezinski	Aug 2013	#359
I watch the genre with the two oldest grandsons. Their reactions and comments are hysterical.	Mnemosyne	Aug 2013	#472
Get them the seven samurai by Kurosawa	nadinbrzezinski	Aug 2013	#473
We recently watched The Sorcerer and the White Snake, awesome film! I will hunt down Kurosawa's	Mnemosyne	Aug 2013	#474
You're right. War, especially war against civilians, is always immoral.	Tierra_y_Libertad	Aug 2013	#36
Splittin' Hairs	zipplewrath	Aug 2013	#63
Splitting hairs????	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#68
So what were all the innocent Chinese and other Asians the Japanese butchered, tortured to death, an	kestrel91316	Aug 2013	#100
No....	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#111
No idea what you're trying to	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#206
In total war, there are no civilians. Everyone is a target. N/T	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#255
OMG. What the fuck is "total war"? n/t	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#264
World War Two was such a war.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#283
You sure you're in the right place? War is war. I don't give shit how big or how nice.	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#287
"Total war" means...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#288
And it's simply not possible to make war without civilian casualties.	Orsino	Aug 2013	#158
What war has never involved civilians ?	lumpy	Aug 2013	#304
Some truth ...	Koios	Aug 2013	#43
And it was the only option?	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#88
No; merely the best option ...	Koios	Aug 2013	#119
'drop a nuke on one of Japan's many uninhabited islands as a warning'	markiv	Aug 2013	#46
They considered that	nadinbrzezinski	Aug 2013	#89
Very true ... plus ...	Koios	Aug 2013	#134
Very true	nadinbrzezinski	Aug 2013	#137
What the heck prompted this thread anyway?	Skidmore	Aug 2013	#52
Check your calendar	Orrex	Aug 2013	#56
This message was self-deleted by its author	Junkdrawer	Aug 2013	#114
The bombung of Hiroshima was all about sending a message to the world, we are the World's number one	JRLeft	Aug 2013	#57
The Japanese were NOT talking about surrender.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#60
My father was in the Pacific during all that time and as I asked, he explained.	freshwest	Aug 2013	#147
Thank you, I had forgotten that interview.	tumtum	Aug 2013	#197
Yes they were, target New York	nadinbrzezinski	Aug 2013	#249
Factually incorrect post. The Japanese were NOTtalking surrender.	TeamPooka	Aug 2013	#67
Simple question then...what IS justified?	brooklynite	Aug 2013	#72
That is it, isn't it? I asked upthread what the OP would have had Truman	HardTimes99	Aug 2013	#102
Apparently people are OK with killing innocent civilians.	RedCappedBandit	Aug 2013	#73
Those weren't innocent civilians.	tumtum	Aug 2013	#87
If they were willing to have their population annihilated, why didn't they?	RedCappedBandit	Aug 2013	#95
Right on.	RebelOne	Aug 2013	#126
Do you know how silly that sounds? Of course they would defend themselves against an invading	liberal_at_heart	Aug 2013	#152
Yes they were.	godai	Aug 2013	#405
No, they weren't.	tumtum	Aug 2013	#409
If you're so convinced, why the anger?	godai	Aug 2013	#415
I'm not angry,	tumtum	Aug 2013	#420
You sound angry.	godai	Aug 2013	#422
Not angry, disgusted.	tumtum	Aug 2013	#423
So, are you just as disgusted at the Germans?	godai	Aug 2013	#426
So you admit that the Japanese murdered/killed/slaughtered millions of civilians?	tumtum	Aug 2013	#428
We were not in a 'fight for our lives and survival' on August 6, 1945. Japan had lost the war. n/t	godai	Aug 2013	#429
I'm talking about the totality of WWII.	tumtum	Aug 2013	#430
This message was self-deleted by its author	godai	Aug 2013	#431
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Aug 2013	#425
Innocent civilians have been killed for as long as war has existed. We didn't start the trend.	kestrel91316	Aug 2013	#108
Interesting.	RedCappedBandit	Aug 2013	#115
Innocent?	4Q2u2	Aug 2013	#132
So you're guilty of Bush's war crimes?	RedCappedBandit	Aug 2013	#140
Boy that was Predictable	4Q2u2	Aug 2013	#143
So because we failed to stop Bush, the victims of his crimes	RedCappedBandit	Aug 2013	#155
That's EXACTLY what they are saying.	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#157
They already think that	4Q2u2	Aug 2013	#176
The Japanese were certainly OK with it nt	treestar	Aug 2013	#201
I just wish that we had been in a position to nuke Berlin a few years earlier.	Nye Bevan	Aug 2013	#84
How's that comfy armchair?	Sotf	Aug 2013	#90
Geez, read a few of these threads	Hydra	Aug 2013	#91
Welcome to the club of "Blame America First, Last and Always".	MicaelS	Aug 2013	#92
True	Cali_Democrat	Aug 2013	#116
One of the many from people who were there.	4Q2u2	Aug 2013	#104
So what is your point? You just cherry pick one event and think yourself a genius?	Rex	Aug 2013	#107
One could argue that the dropping of the bomb saved a million Japanese lives	Vinnie From Indy	Aug 2013	#109
If you discount the testimony of Smedley Butler then all is justifiable	think	Aug 2013	#112
Os, so it was the United States fault Japan invaded China	MicaelS	Aug 2013	#123
This is a quote from one of the most decorated Marines of our times	think	Aug 2013	#127
Yes uncalled for and I think said poster doesn't know what	Rex	Aug 2013	#146
US historical involvement in war is complex and mostly unknown	think	Aug 2013	#173
I agree, we never went in-depth into war when I was teaching	Rex	Aug 2013	#184
More on US Japanese relations pre WW2	think	Aug 2013	#151
War	Cali_Democrat	Aug 2013	#113
Everybody sing: "We've done it before and we will do it again"	Junkdrawer	Aug 2013	#117
+1,000	malaise	Aug 2013	#121
Pure and ignorant ...	Koios	Aug 2013	#129
Whatever	malaise	Aug 2013	#135
Terrorism ... it was ...	Koios	Aug 2013	#138
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Aug 2013	#133
Horrible thing to be sure. Justifisble? A debatable point. Thankful someone made	geckosfeet	Aug 2013	#136
Yes; justifiable ...	Koios	Aug 2013	#141
It was terrorism. Plain and simple. There is no justification for deliberetaly bombing civilians.	liberal_at_heart	Aug 2013	#139
I have never lied to myself about Hiroshima,	LWolf	Aug 2013	#148
yup nt	La Lioness Priyanka	Aug 2013	#162
We do not have the right to judge certain historical events	perdita9	Aug 2013	#172
Wow. did I miss a meeting or something?	eggplant	Aug 2013	#177
No.	Richardo	Aug 2013	#213
I can't decide who is trolling whom.	eggplant	Aug 2013	#322
Happens every year at the anniversary of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. n/t	godai	Aug 2013	#407
I've been a member for ages, but this is the first time I've seen this level of crazy about this.	eggplant	Aug 2013	#410
To the people on the ground, which was worse	hobbit709	Aug 2013	#183
Truman had to consider	JaneFordA	Aug 2013	#186
My grandfather survived the bataan death march	iandhr	Aug 2013	#187
Wouldn't that be like taking out a gun but not shooting to kill?	treestar	Aug 2013	#189
You have the use of guns confused.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2013	#273
Agreed	Mr Dixon	Aug 2013	#192
C'mon Libs	adicortez	Aug 2013	#193
Scary that most here...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#198
This message was self-deleted by its author	ieoeja	Aug 2013	#199
Www.humanevents.com. Enjoy.	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#204
Uh - no	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#220
I recommended that site...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#228
While I'm thoroughly disgusted by you	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#256
Please...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#266
For Heaven's sake	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#271
Lol, for someone with no guilt...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#274
Do you really think this is new?	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#281
Yep...American historians are...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#286
But, Iraq was different.	Dawgs	Aug 2013	#291
That you can compare the two	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#295
The only thing I compared...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#300
Yawn	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#316
One hardly needs...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#319
60 years later	leftynyc	Aug 2013	#321
In 50 years it will still be part of the record	treestar	Aug 2013	#332
We were dragged kicking and screaming into WWI and WWII	treestar	Aug 2013	#331
Far more died	sabbat hunter	Aug 2013	#210
IIRC, didn't the US firebombs kill lots more people?	MynameisBlarney	Aug 2013	#216
yes, the firebombing of Tokyo killed a lot more people	NoMoreWarNow	Aug 2013	#229
"There was mostly evil intent in all those bombings including the atomic bombings..."	EX500rider	Aug 2013	#306
I know it was war, and a nasty one at that. But those bombings were malicious and cruel beyond	NoMoreWarNow	Aug 2013	#444
"But those bombings were malicious and cruel beyond normal rules of war."	EX500rider	Aug 2013	#462
They had warning	shawn703	Aug 2013	#223
What the leaflets we dropped on them said:	EX500rider	Aug 2013	#308
Comments here are truly...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#225
This message was self-deleted by its author	ieoeja	Aug 2013	#231
I think we've found something	treestar	Aug 2013	#251
This message was self-deleted by its author	ieoeja	Aug 2013	#278
Lol, apes with iphones	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#292
No, it says far more about you.	Zoeisright	Aug 2013	#336
Lol, ok "Zoe is right". Haha	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#337
Nobody here's thrilled to have dropped the bombs	NuclearDem	Aug 2013	#233
Thank you.	MynameisBlarney	Aug 2013	#246
No it is not.	RedSpartan	Aug 2013	#234
I will place my masters in history	nadinbrzezinski	Aug 2013	#236
This message was self-deleted by its author	ieoeja	Aug 2013	#237
I prefer "aPes with iPhones."	Orrex	Aug 2013	#254
No one APPLAUDS them, and your use of that word excuses you from any serious conversation.	Dreamer Tatum	Aug 2013	#250
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Aug 2013	#296
When you're trying to troll, you need to be careful	jeff47	Aug 2013	#310
I'll never forget learning about	LittleGirl	Aug 2013	#242
Mina no tame no inori	AsahinaKimi	Aug 2013	#243
Thank you. That is a beautiful sentiment.	think	Aug 2013	#269
You are welcome	AsahinaKimi	Aug 2013	#270
Very lovely. Sometimes the innocence of children	think	Aug 2013	#294
I was going to ignore this post initially because it seemed kind of obvious	NoMoreWarNow	Aug 2013	#245
It's been a real...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#252
I know what you mean... there are good people here but	NoMoreWarNow	Aug 2013	#445
Side bar about your picture...	GalaxyHunter	Aug 2013	#253
It was more about peace and not making war	NoMoreWarNow	Aug 2013	#446
So you'd choose the option that would kill 10-50M instead?	jeff47	Aug 2013	#311
Thanks for posting this, Phillyindy.	darkangel218	Aug 2013	#263
You may not be aware of a few things	wercal	Aug 2013	#265
What are your thoughts on the firebombing of Tokyo?	Socal31	Aug 2013	#276
Take an enema, it will help with the backlog of your sanctimonious crap.	branford	Aug 2013	#277
from a wider perspective (wider even than the facts that the USSR took Manchuria in 11 DAYS	MisterP	Aug 2013	#280
Quarterback all you want Japan was a war culture...	Historic NY	Aug 2013	#285
Thank you for taking a stand for morality	jimlup	Aug 2013	#303
Convenient and far too simple.	branford	Aug 2013	#307
You are just attacking me.	jimlup	Aug 2013	#313
If you believe the decision to drop the bombs was simple,	branford	Aug 2013	#327
What the hell difference does it make if it's 1 bomb killing 100,000 people...	Richardo	Aug 2013	#330
Is war immoral under all circumstances? nt	nyquil_man	Aug 2013	#335
It's easy to...	Phillyindy	Aug 2013	#323
I'm not. That's the point.	branford	Aug 2013	#325
I don't disagree with your point, but it does demonstrate a level of naiveté that	Egalitarian Thug	Aug 2013	#340
By starting a new thread to play armchair historian you are kidding yourself	davidpdx	Aug 2013	#350
My only complaint all along is that they chose non military targets	Warpy	Aug 2013	#354
It's inarguable that innocent people died. It's also inarguable that absolutely guilty people died.	Gravitycollapse	Aug 2013	#361
So incinerating hundreds of thousands of innocent women, children and babies in Tokyo was ok?	DCBob	Aug 2013	#363
Nanking. . .quit lying to yourselves.	Nanjing to Seoul	Aug 2013	#370
Gotta' love these 21st Century Quarterbacks -	lynne	Aug 2013	#373
I'm of two minds about this	DemocratSinceBirth	Aug 2013	#374
Thanks for the post. Funny how this debate has suffered the OJ trial phenomenon...	rwsanders	Aug 2013	#387
American politicians are elected to protect and save American lives.	branford	Aug 2013	#390
I don't see that in the constituion and that is in direct contradiction to the principals set forth	rwsanders	Aug 2013	#435
I believe the atomic bombing were both horrific as well as necessary and correct.	branford	Aug 2013	#436
I believe more in Kirk's answer to the Kobayashi Maru, always another option, but in context	rwsanders	Aug 2013	#441
In the 1980s I got to know a pilot who was Japanese POW in WW II	Botany	Aug 2013	#389
I'm speculating here ... not trying to justify nor to discern motive:	Martin Eden	Aug 2013	#392
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Aug 2013	#399
Funny How	Mr.CT	Aug 2013	#402
Oh boy, WW2 talk...	iamthebandfanman	Aug 2013	#404
it was a terrorist act, plain and simple	stupidicus	Aug 2013	#406
Speaking of apologies...	lumberjack_jeff	Aug 2013	#408
Hiroshima Peace Museum	godai	Aug 2013	#416
We should thank Japan...	ryan_cats	Aug 2013	#421
war is never justified	quaker bill	Aug 2013	#447
Imagine how many lives would have been saved if...	yawnmaster	Aug 2013	#454
rec.	SammyWinstonJack	Aug 2013	#456
Baloney	duffyduff	Aug 2013	#458
It's well-established that the Japanese were ready to surrender...	Jeff In Milwaukee	Aug 2013	#468
Read this book.	oneshooter	Aug 2013	#467

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