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hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
164. the health care tax simply is NOT relevant to ATRA
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 06:29 PM
Jul 2013

because it was NOT part of ATRA

thus it is not part of the question - does ATRA increase inequality or decrease it?

The math, however, is impossible to do. What for example, were the standard deduction and personal exemption in 2001? How much of the $500,000 income is from dividends? How much from capital gains? How much do they itemize deductions? Then there is the bracket creep. Rates have gone down because of inflationary adjustments. Should I compare $27,000/$500,000 in 2001 to the same nominal dollar figures or the same real (inflation adjusted) dollar figures?

Since I know that the rich got bigger tax cuts than the poor from ATRA, to even attempt to do the math is a waste of time.

But okay, let's take away standard and itemized deductions and personal exemptions and child tax credits and dividend income and just compare taxable income as wages to taxable income as wages. 2001 to 2013

taxable income 2001
$27,050 ***** $500,000
taxes (federal income)
$4,057.5 ***** $172,610.15
after tax income
$22,992.50 ****** $327,389.85

2001 gap - $304,397.35

taxable income 2012
$27,050 ***** $500,000
taxes
$3,611.25 ***** $155,763.75
after tax income
$23,438.75 ***** $344,236.25

2013 gap - $320,797.50

gap has increased by $16,400.15

tax rates here

2013
10% on taxable income from $0 to $8,925, plus
15% on taxable income over $8,925 to $36,250, plus
25% on taxable income over $36,250 to $87,850, plus
28% on taxable income over $87,850 to $183,250, plus
33% on taxable income over $183,250 to $398,350, plus
35% on taxable income over $398,350 to $400,000, plus
39.6% on taxable income over $400,000.


in 2001 tax rates for singles were
15% on first $27,050
27.5% up to $65,550
30.5% up to $136,750
35.5% up to $297,350
39.1% for the rest

and the gap would be even bigger if the rich person had some dividend income, once taxed at 39.6%, now taxed at only 20%.

Even if you take away the bracket creep, the richer person is STILL
saving 2.5% on their first $400,000 of income past $27,050 - a savings of about $6,750 that poorer people do not enjoy - but Mitt Romney and Rush Limbaugh (and Paul Krugman) all enjoy it.

You simply do not close a gap by giving bigger tax cuts to richer people than you do to poorer people.

And that's what ATRA did.

I really cannot grasp what you are saying Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #1
The OP is calling out sock puppet callouts RobertEarl Jul 2013 #5
It's cute to see you in a thread about sockpuppets...nt SidDithers Jul 2013 #9
And it's more than cute Puglover Jul 2013 #15
It's not his fault, he is grumpy because he is compacted Dragonfli Jul 2013 #21
Another one defending the sockpuppet... SidDithers Jul 2013 #26
I'm just worried about you my conservative friend, I want you to be healthy. /nt Dragonfli Jul 2013 #39
I'll be just fine, my Libertarian pal...nt SidDithers Jul 2013 #53
Someone who writes a post like yours can talk about shit? nt bluestate10 Jul 2013 #28
He is the one obsessed with his problem, I merely point it out. Dragonfli Jul 2013 #38
RobertEarl actually was a sockpuppet... SidDithers Jul 2013 #24
Since admin doesn't give a shit Puglover Jul 2013 #34
Admin doesn't give a shit... SidDithers Jul 2013 #52
I believe that Skinner said Puglover Jul 2013 #60
Hang on, Sid's pintobean Jul 2013 #81
Clever... SidDithers Jul 2013 #86
Well played, Sir. nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #145
+1,000 MADem Jul 2013 #105
Yup, that would be good...nt SidDithers Jul 2013 #118
This message was self-deleted by its author Puglover Jul 2013 #160
I'm not sure that mortals can know the mysterious ways of the Skinner, EarlG, and Elan... jtuck004 Jul 2013 #162
most recently, billy blades arely staircase Jul 2013 #45
Wow, Sid--that's fascinating! MADem Jul 2013 #49
Sid - You're misusing your MIRT priviledge by "outing" someone publicly. Isn't this something leveymg Jul 2013 #80
Why shouldn't sockpuppetry be outed?... SidDithers Jul 2013 #85
Do I have to repeat what Skinner already told you about why? Ok, here it is: leveymg Jul 2013 #91
And if Skinner chooses not to ban them, that's his decision... SidDithers Jul 2013 #99
Right on. nt MADem Jul 2013 #120
amen...n/t chillfactor Jul 2013 #137
There are no secrets here at DU3. And there shouldn't be. MADem Jul 2013 #119
There are certain constraints on serving MIRT, and one is not to use inside member information leveymg Jul 2013 #124
Again, there was no MIRT inside information being used... SidDithers Jul 2013 #127
If that is the case, then so be it. leveymg Jul 2013 #134
Check your own profile... SidDithers Jul 2013 #147
When people get dumped for being a sockpuppet or zombie, it's noted in their profile. MADem Jul 2013 #129
Informing the community is a good thing pintobean Jul 2013 #144
I'm glad the admins are doing it. I hope they make it a habit. nt MADem Jul 2013 #149
Similarly... SidDithers Jul 2013 #158
Interesting. n/t Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #135
Wasn't BeFree a rather persistent 9/11 Truther? Flatulo Jul 2013 #139
Looks like a lot of them are here. Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #27
Maybe they are sick of being called a sockpuppet by those that see relentless blind shilling NoOneMan Jul 2013 #33
but should billy blades be free? arely staircase Jul 2013 #41
What if the real sock puppets are really the ones claiming others are the sock puppets? JaneyVee Jul 2013 #2
Paid Shill! NYC_SKP Jul 2013 #3
Sockpuppy!!!! ProSense Jul 2013 #11
Where do I sign up? I have posted enough, for free, to send MADem Jul 2013 #121
And just look at my notorious post count! Although half are kittehs, I still think I should be paid! freshwest Jul 2013 #163
If the shoe fits. chimpymustgo Jul 2013 #4
See, it works. ProSense Jul 2013 #7
If you are a sockpuppet, claim anyone who correctly identifies you just disagrees with you wtmusic Jul 2013 #6
Good one. ProSense Jul 2013 #10
classic sockpuppetry bigtree Jul 2013 #59
Don't forget the requisite hardhitting photo to go along with accusations! flamingdem Jul 2013 #8
. ProSense Jul 2013 #14
That almost looks like BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #43
Yep. It's the height of narcissism to believe sufrommich Jul 2013 #12
People that regularly attack Democrats on a site called DEMOCRATIC Underground and AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #13
Yup... SidDithers Jul 2013 #17
+1 treestar Jul 2013 #92
(from someone who has been here two whole weeks, with their latest account) Electric Monk Jul 2013 #102
Still smells of the grave. nt pintobean Jul 2013 #111
With broken records like you, it's easy to catch on quickly. nt AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #150
Now that you admit it pintobean Jul 2013 #157
Admit what? That I've been here for two weeks? AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #159
I think it's a "the one who smelt it dealt it" thing myself. DevonRex Jul 2013 #16
Post to avoid jury duty in this thread hootinholler Jul 2013 #18
Good stuff ProSense Jul 2013 #19
the OP reveals its favorite technique. plus don't forget to kick your own post a lot nt msongs Jul 2013 #20
Cool, a nonsensical one-liner kick. ProSense Jul 2013 #22
Some DUERs use that tactic. They are to be challenged. I don' set anyone to bluestate10 Jul 2013 #23
I have had a hard time making this tactic work ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #25
Except thats not really how the term is used (also known as Strawman 101) NoOneMan Jul 2013 #29
you really believe the points you make here are original and not from some pernicious source? bigtree Jul 2013 #83
+ bazillion BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #154
well hfojvt Jul 2013 #30
"unless there was some sort of remuneration involved" NoOneMan Jul 2013 #35
Well, ProSense Jul 2013 #37
You know, Krugman isn't God NoOneMan Jul 2013 #47
Didn't you just post someting about a "straw man"? ProSense Jul 2013 #56
Its a comment NoOneMan Jul 2013 #58
I bet ProSense Jul 2013 #61
objecting to 'blue-linking' bigtree Jul 2013 #74
Krugman now under the bus! BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #48
we are all doing what we can hfojvt Jul 2013 #69
Agreed. 100%. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #79
but I am really surprised it is not still with us hfojvt Jul 2013 #110
" . . . dishonest article from Krugman. . . ." Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #87
The poster's argument ProSense Jul 2013 #96
by which you mean hfojvt Jul 2013 #113
No, I mean, the point you're making is bogus. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #130
He said Paul Krugman's article was dishonest. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #140
dang I hate it when logic proves me wrong hfojvt Jul 2013 #107
You simply keep repeating the same debunked points. ProSense Jul 2013 #88
well I have debated it hfojvt Jul 2013 #115
No, ProSense Jul 2013 #126
the same nonsensival point? hfojvt Jul 2013 #133
Yes, ProSense Jul 2013 #136
the health care tax simply is NOT relevant to ATRA hfojvt Jul 2013 #164
So no one could genuinely support the administration treestar Jul 2013 #98
supporting the administration is one thing hfojvt Jul 2013 #152
Or you could call them immature cowardly racist treasonous homosexual egotists. bemildred Jul 2013 #31
This post has no links. Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #32
You have been treated poorly here. MADem Jul 2013 #36
I have thick skin and ProSense Jul 2013 #40
Oh, they're naming names on this thread - a compliment to be listed along with PS! flamingdem Jul 2013 #50
I just added a response to that ... JoePhilly Jul 2013 #57
I understand! I think I was included for the Alex Jones comparison thread flamingdem Jul 2013 #63
Which is ironic NoOneMan Jul 2013 #64
I alerted but nada. flamingdem Jul 2013 #123
Your response was terribly clever, too! nt MADem Jul 2013 #151
Perhaps because you aren't an Eddie Enthusiast? nt MADem Jul 2013 #89
That is an honor! Scurrilous Jul 2013 #161
Unbelievable. MADem Jul 2013 #70
One of them quit posting pintobean Jul 2013 #103
Completely agree. n/t FSogol Jul 2013 #82
disgusting, really bigtree Jul 2013 #90
That is what gets me treestar Jul 2013 #95
I think some folks think this is Anarchist's Underground, while others--or maybe even MADem Jul 2013 #97
Too true that nt flamingdem Jul 2013 #122
I'm one who can remember being lectured on what a progressive choice Mr. Obama was bigtree Jul 2013 #131
I remember some of those lectures, too! MADem Jul 2013 #143
I'll give you credit mick063 Jul 2013 #42
I read the links, too. MADem Jul 2013 #148
Pro, can I ask you of your opinion of this article? Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #44
The ProSense Jul 2013 #54
shocking. A PR firm practicing PR bigtree Jul 2013 #55
Again, this term has nothing to do with simple disagreements NoOneMan Jul 2013 #62
What nonsense. ProSense Jul 2013 #65
"that doesn't make them a "sockpuppet" for disagreeing with you" NoOneMan Jul 2013 #66
No, you're redefining the term to justify your point. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #67
Haha, Thats what your OP is about! Its a straw man NoOneMan Jul 2013 #68
Someone isn't a sockpuppet because you feel like calling him/her one. ProSense Jul 2013 #73
no, that's not the definition in the article bigtree Jul 2013 #71
there are sockpuppets bigtree Jul 2013 #46
I know this much, I DO disagree with sock puppets spreading propaganda Coyotl Jul 2013 #51
Or accuse them of using the new daily 'talking points'. randome Jul 2013 #72
Is that what you did to cause MM to start a thread on the topic? Rex Jul 2013 #75
Sure. That's what you do burnodo Jul 2013 #76
No, but you apparently have a creative imagination. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #77
Yeah, works just as well as the old "paid to post" routine treestar Jul 2013 #78
and you know precisely what you're talking about burnodo Jul 2013 #84
who pays you? bigtree Jul 2013 #100
And the whole idea appears to apply more to their side of things, too treestar Jul 2013 #104
it's not as if we're immune from wondering who sent some of these folks here bigtree Jul 2013 #114
You have more than 100,000 posts on a wide range of political subjects-- ALL OF THEM Marr Jul 2013 #93
Not ProSense Jul 2013 #101
No, I think his point is that you never, ever give negative feedback Rex Jul 2013 #116
It would've been more accurate to say you have never *criticized* the administration. Marr Jul 2013 #117
That's not what (s)he said. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #155
This is a politician treestar Jul 2013 #106
Or just ignore a post's content and bash the site where it was published. Eddie Haskell Jul 2013 #94
The Snowden/Greenwald thing has been rather weird to read as an infrequent poster War Horse Jul 2013 #108
Who sent you? Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #109
. ProSense Jul 2013 #112
Like the man said agent46 Jul 2013 #125
Thanks for posting this customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #128
I admit I am a sockpuppet but lost the other sock before ever joining DU. lol PufPuf23 Jul 2013 #132
WTF - IS IGNORE NOT WORKING??? Skittles Jul 2013 #138
Why did you click it? n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #146
LOL! NYC_SKP Jul 2013 #156
K & R Scurrilous Jul 2013 #141
From all appearances Cirque du So-What Jul 2013 #142
Pay no attemtion to that man behind the curtain... Junkdrawer Jul 2013 #153
Locking. It is the consensus of the hosts that this does not meet the Autumn Jul 2013 #165
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