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In reply to the discussion: From the Miami Herald: [View all]onenote
(42,685 posts)78. Getting out of a car is not physical contact.
Physical contact is physical contact. And, sadly, the evidence as to what occurred next (as opposed to what we might believe occurred next) is sketchy.
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Very simplistic. I think some of those items were disputed, so not "undisputed evidence".
Egalitariat
Jul 2013
#3
Which of the items do you feel is disputed? I've been following the trial fairly closely, and ...
11 Bravo
Jul 2013
#5
16. There is no evidence that the teen was committing a crime or about to commit any crime.
dkf
Jul 2013
#8
It is perfectly legal for Martin to punch him in the nose under these circumstances.
reusrename
Jul 2013
#136
Judges often will say someone brought a fight on themselves and deserved injury.
Spitfire of ATJ
Jul 2013
#222
I agree completely. But you can't convict Z for acting foolishly, if that is not the law.
dkf
Jul 2013
#144
I have often thought that it was quite possible that Zimmerman approached Martin ...
spin
Jul 2013
#248
there is no doubt Zimmerman's actions led to the death of an innocent teenager
Skittles
Jul 2013
#262
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. Apparently the jury agreed with me ...
spin
Jul 2013
#272
Once the defense asserts "Self Defense" they have admitted the fact of the killing and the burden
Vincardog
Jul 2013
#247
In that case I think the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that ...
spin
Jul 2013
#249
yet you want to "convict" Martin for defending himself against someone acting foolishly?
CatWoman
Jul 2013
#188
why do Zimmerman defenders not consider that it was Trayvon fighting for his life?
Skittles
Jul 2013
#229
I think he did legitimately fear for his life. Someone certainly did and was screaming for help.
dkf
Jul 2013
#132
She said Trayvon initiated the conversation: "He said, 'Why are you following me for?'
dkf
Jul 2013
#147
And if you were African American and regularly felt profiled how would you feel in this situation?
Quixote1818
Jul 2013
#156
Your version doesn't work well with the law. It won't help Z get convicted certainly.
dkf
Jul 2013
#177
You seem to excuse the fact that he failed to identify himself as anyone other than...
slor
Jul 2013
#237
I don't think he had an intention to kill but he was prepared with his SYG education just in case.
Voice for Peace
Jul 2013
#89
good point about the gun-- hadn't heard that before-- seems pretty damning
NoMoreWarNow
Jul 2013
#232
Leave us not forget that he also called the police on a 7 (SEVEN!), YEAR OLD CHILD
Ecumenist
Jul 2013
#251
There was no evidence that Z didn't assure Martin that he wasn't a perverted sexual predator either
MrScorpio
Jul 2013
#15
If some young person has some creepy looking adult following them around in the dark...
MrScorpio
Jul 2013
#41
There is a claim...that Martin damaged Zimmerman's nose and head. There is evidence that
vanlassie
Jul 2013
#16
Trayvon had NO CUT on his KNUCKLES! He had a small cut on his index finger.. NOTHING
Ecumenist
Jul 2013
#252
Save your keystrokes, when up is down, wrong is right, it's backward day, and you are wasting
GoneFishin
Jul 2013
#67
Any evidence Zimmerman didn't inflict his own injuries AFTER he shot Martin??
Ghost in the Machine
Jul 2013
#82
that is not evidence. Zimmerman had some minor injuries. There is no evidence they were inflicted by
Voice for Peace
Jul 2013
#83
No independent evidence that Trayvon EVER laid a finger on Zimmerman. Only evidence
1monster
Jul 2013
#165
What evidence that Martin damaged anything? No blood or swelling on his hands,
jtuck004
Jul 2013
#205
Actually there is no evidence that Martin damaged the back of Zimmerman's 'head'
Tx4obama
Jul 2013
#238
I read that it is the defense's responsibility to provide "affirmative defense" rather than
MH1
Jul 2013
#63
The fact that self defense is included in the jury instructions means he has met the threshold
dkf
Jul 2013
#87
One more time. From the jury instructions, the "reasonable person" standard is clear:
MH1
Jul 2013
#121
The prosecution made no assertions how Z could have avoided that danger at the time TM had pinned
dkf
Jul 2013
#142
We have one person's story for that. Z could have banged his head by slipping and falling.
WinkyDink
Jul 2013
#245
If someone you do not know,follows you and grabs you, would you not "resist"?
SoCalDem
Jul 2013
#253
Yeah I think that is what most are doing. They don't want to discuss the law because they wish it
dkf
Jul 2013
#93
Depends on which post of his/hers you are referring to. I read many posts where s/he was
1monster
Jul 2013
#208
does that not work both ways? is the dead kid not allowed to defend himself?
Civilization2
Jul 2013
#12
Is it clear beyond a reasonable doubt that it was unreasonable to assume danger?
onenote
Jul 2013
#59
Easy, Ma'am: Zimmerman Lies, The 'Appearance Of Danger' Did Not Make Him Actually Fear For His Life
The Magistrate
Jul 2013
#90
Couldn't just about every murderer who had a victim fight back claim "self defense"?
cascadiance
Jul 2013
#196
Some random dude jumps you in the street and want to know what you are up to,. he is not a cop, no
Civilization2
Jul 2013
#31
The prosecution must prove via evidence. You aren't supposed to use a guess to determine this.
dkf
Jul 2013
#81
Even if you discount his words the prosecution must prove their case with evidence.
dkf
Jul 2013
#95
Bullshit. The guy who CHOSE not to stay in his car like he was instructed to
GoneFishin
Jul 2013
#73
Tough crap. The pretzel logical contortions would not be needed if Zimmerman minded his own
GoneFishin
Jul 2013
#110
You are ignoring the law. That is not how it works, except in vigilante land. Ironic.
dkf
Jul 2013
#120
Shit, he could have banged his head on the car's door as he raced out to shoot-down Travon.
1-Old-Man
Jul 2013
#127
The police dispatcher told Fatty "we don't need you to do that( follow Trayvon)."/nt
DemocratSinceBirth
Jul 2013
#162
Probably not. But it is false to say that you were "told by the police not to follow him".
Nye Bevan
Jul 2013
#182
If a trained police dispatcher tells you "we don't need you to do that"
DemocratSinceBirth
Jul 2013
#190
See here's the thing, that KID is dead and zimmy is a PROVEN liar....END OF STORY!
Ecumenist
Jul 2013
#257
dkf can argue til blue, but Zimmerman's life is now worth about as much as Martin's
Patiod
Jul 2013
#225
The lesson? Do not defend yourself if you are black in the state of Florida?
SleeplessinSoCal
Jul 2013
#281
The gun wasn't seen. But he followed him. If I were being followed in the rain by a guy
SleeplessinSoCal
Jul 2013
#291