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(114,904 posts)
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 04:26 PM Jul 2013

Look what NAFTA did to Ecuador and then tell me I'm posting too much about the TPP [View all]

and I haven't even started in yet with the TTIP. I'm outraged about it. And most of you probably are too.


Consider Ecuador. Under U.S.-Ecuador's Bilateral Investment Treaty, which mimics the investor-state system enshrined in the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), the largest ever reward from one of these tribunals has hit the poor country of Ecuador hard. In a decision by a World Bank tribunal last year, Ecuador lost to Occidental Petroleum and now is being forced to pay a penalty of $2.4 billion for ending their oil contract. Ecuador, reeling from decades of environmental pollution by Chevron/Texaco in the Ecuadorean Amazon, had concerns with Occidental illegally selling off portions of the agreed-upon oil contract without government authorization, a move that abrogated the contract. Now the country is billions of dollars in debt.

Consider Peru. This case, involving Peru and a company called Renco Group Inc. and its subsidiary Doe Run Peru, owned by U.S. billionaire Ira Rennert, is equally disconcerting. Pollution from the company's lead and zinc smelters, which are operated in the mountain town of La Oroya, was linked with high lead levels in the town's children. After myriad cases emerged of mental retardation, convulsions, anemia and stunted growth, Peru ordered an environmental cleanup, to which Renco responded by launching an $800 million claim against the government under the U.S.-Peru Free Trade Agreement. The company claimed that the cleanup ran Doe Run Peru into bankruptcy. Meanwhile, the kids get sicker and the town poorer.

[Read the U.S. News Debate: Should Congress Interfere with China's Currency Policies?]

Consider Canada. After Quebec passed a moratorium on fracking two years ago because it wanted to conduct an environmental impact assessment on the impacts of leached chemicals and gases from fracking, U.S.-based company Lone Pine Resources demanded $250 million, saying Canada violated its NAFTA obligations. The company had planned to frack 30,000 acres near the St. Lawrence River, injecting toxic chemicals into a critical watershed. These kinds of cases where a nation's laws are usurped by extrajudicial tribunals are only becoming more common.

Recall that Obama was against this a few years ago: According to Barack Obama on the campaign trail, "We will not negotiate bilateral trade agreements that stop the government from protecting the environment, food safety, or the health of its citizens; give greater rights to foreign investors than to U.S. investors; require the privatization of our vital public services; or prevent developing country governments from adopting humanitarian licensing policies to improve access to life-saving medications." U.S. Trade Representative Michael Froman will be asking Congress for fast-track authority to move forward these investor-state provisions within any forthcoming trade agreements. Two-thirds of the Democratic freshman class in the House of Representative came out opposing it.



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notice what is missing from the obama quote in the last paragraph - protecting our constitutional msongs Jul 2013 #1
Even if he did say he would protet our constitutional rights, I wouldn't believe him. forestpath Jul 2013 #18
His credibility is a thing of the past....nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #55
well we know that part in Obama's speech about not privatizing our public services is a lie. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #2
K&R pa28 Jul 2013 #3
outraged kick cali Jul 2013 #4
Just curious, which of these trade agreements were negotiated by President Obama? Progressive dog Jul 2013 #5
The TPP and the TTIP are both high priorities of the President's and his cali Jul 2013 #10
He didn't really want an answer, you libtard. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #27
heh. evidently I am a libtard. I fall for it every time. cali Jul 2013 #35
Top priorities, I see and of course the Progressive dog Jul 2013 #47
What is your argument? It's terrible but not Obama's fault. Good fucking grief. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #49
Obviously, your argument is that it is terrible Progressive dog Jul 2013 #61
here: there have been leaks. cali Jul 2013 #63
There are always "leaks", but they're not always true. Progressive dog Jul 2013 #65
oh ffs. these leaks have been confirmed as true. cali Jul 2013 #66
Of course they have, that's why Congress Progressive dog Jul 2013 #70
It kind of blows me away zeemike Jul 2013 #86
That is exactly what I was thinking. JEB Jul 2013 #93
It's not a treaty, cadaverdog Jul 2013 #106
So fast track is an end run around the constitutional requirements. zeemike Jul 2013 #107
I don't see Obama getting fast track authority particularly from the republicans in the House. pampango Jul 2013 #109
But if they did what would that say? zeemike Jul 2013 #114
Yeah, I would like to see whats in them too.... daleanime Jul 2013 #53
NAFTA was public before it was passed, Progressive dog Jul 2013 #64
TPP? daleanime Jul 2013 #67
TPP will be public before it's given to Congress, just Progressive dog Jul 2013 #69
Huh, do you think we'll have.... daleanime Jul 2013 #74
I'm not sure where in the laws of the USA Progressive dog Jul 2013 #77
"We have a representative government" LMFAO L0oniX Jul 2013 #80
Yes. Top priorities as he said in his SOTU speech cali Jul 2013 #56
Which a lot of us here have read zeemike Jul 2013 #88
Lets Roll-the-Tape!!! bvar22 Jul 2013 #45
Let's see what he said as he ran for president Progressive dog Jul 2013 #46
Lets roll another tape: bvar22 Jul 2013 #92
I thought I did. zeemike Jul 2013 #89
Gee, could that be why Ecuador is ticked off enough at us to shelter Assange? KamaAina Jul 2013 #6
Thanks for posting this Cali Hydra Jul 2013 #7
Also the destruction of the Mexican farm sector Recursion Jul 2013 #8
Maize almost has religious status in much of Mexico so it's doubly hard when farmers byeya Jul 2013 #22
And the land has gone from thousands of varietals to three Recursion Jul 2013 #24
K&R.... Keep the TPP posts coming Teamster Jeff Jul 2013 #9
Thanks, cali. Keep posting. DU rec. nt antigop Jul 2013 #11
Of course treaties supersede national laws. You want more isolationism because you disagree with RB TexLa Jul 2013 #12
Massive Derp, and check out the handle...mmmhmm, yep. BornLooser Jul 2013 #19
"Some outcomes"? Retarded children, stunted growth, shortened lifespans, ruined watersheds. mbperrin Jul 2013 #34
Again, a neolib calls unfettered trade a force tantamount to the hand of god. Makes me sick. Ed Suspicious Jul 2013 #36
Trade agreements:Give up your sovereignty and we will let you trade. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #13
Keep on posting about it cali Autumn Jul 2013 #14
I would never say . . . another_liberal Jul 2013 #15
Don't ever shut up. I read all your threads about this and bookmark them Catherina Jul 2013 #16
There is no such thing as posting too much about the TPP. Betrayals don't get any worse than this. forestpath Jul 2013 #17
Africa is next up to be bled dry by the unholy, sub-human vampires... BornLooser Jul 2013 #20
Africa? Larry Summers said Africa was "under polluted" - Not for long byeya Jul 2013 #23
Sad, but true. BornLooser Jul 2013 #25
What kind of a scumbag would look at a region - a continent in this case - and declare byeya Jul 2013 #30
Not to hijack the thread, but I have debated that very question with my friends here in town. BornLooser Jul 2013 #37
The ctsnowman Jul 2013 #21
Worse than Bush? nt SunSeeker Jul 2013 #26
I said government ctsnowman Jul 2013 #28
defending mtasselin Jul 2013 #29
Thank You For Sharing cantbeserious Jul 2013 #31
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #32
Caught this on Netflix, worth the watch: "Speaking Freely with John Perkins (Economic Hitman)" drokhole Jul 2013 #33
Thanks for this vital historical lesson.....nt dougolat Jul 2013 #43
k&r for exposure. n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #38
Have you written to any of your elected officials about this? This story... Kolesar Jul 2013 #39
yes, 2 of the three. I know where Bernie stands cali Jul 2013 #40
If only some bio-engineering genius could clone us progressives the truedelphi Jul 2013 #41
Ecuador isn't even in NAFTA. The only countries in NAFTA are the US, Canada and Mexico. Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #42
And TPP is not a "bilateral" treaty Kolesar Jul 2013 #44
You need to read a little better. Elwood P Dowd Jul 2013 #48
exactly: it "mimiced" NAFTA. Granted I put NAFTA in the op headline because people cali Jul 2013 #60
Does this mean you support NAFTA? Like the Republicans? nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #50
I support President Obama on this issue (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #51
What a good little soldier. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #52
Why? Blindly? Or do you actually know something about it? cali Jul 2013 #57
Right or wrong? Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #78
My country right or wrong is a thing that no patriot would think of saying.. L0oniX Jul 2013 #81
...whatever his position may be." Marr Jul 2013 #116
republicans, particularly tea party types, don't support NAFTA. pampango Jul 2013 #58
so what? that has to be one of the worst arguments evah. Bernie Sanders doesn't support it either. cali Jul 2013 #59
"So what?" It gives you many tactical allies in fighting TPP. That should make you happy. pampango Jul 2013 #62
just pointing out that that's a bad argument- and a thoroughly contemptible one as well cali Jul 2013 #68
I think Sanders, Brown and others like the world very much. They are not anti-immigration, pampango Jul 2013 #72
See ...you were a tea bagger republican all this time and didn't know it. L0oniX Jul 2013 #82
yeppers, that's me. maybe I'm some kind of Manchurian Teabagger cali Jul 2013 #83
Plenty of Democrats don't like NAFTA/WTO, too. Just not as many as republicans/teabaggers. pampango Jul 2013 #87
OMG ...DU will commit suicide over having something in common with the tea party. L0oniX Jul 2013 #108
Seems doubtful. We do circular firing squads better than we do the one-person variety. pampango Jul 2013 #111
And your point is? nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #85
That the questions, "Does this mean you support NAFTA? Like the Republicans?" would be more accurate pampango Jul 2013 #91
The real question is, DO YOU SUPPORT NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, and all the rhett o rick Jul 2013 #94
As a Democrat I support liberal trade. Per Pew, most Democrats do and most republicans don't. pampango Jul 2013 #95
So you support NAFTA, CAFTA, etc. Do you believe they are responsible for the rhett o rick Jul 2013 #97
I support liberal, low-tariff trade. If you need to hang a label on that, that's your call. pampango Jul 2013 #102
I would love to see a graph that shows what NAFTA has accomplished. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #104
There is both bipartisan support and opposition to free trade agreements. totodeinhere Jul 2013 #103
Agreed. That's exactly what this poll showed. They only differ in percentages. pampango Jul 2013 #105
You really are quite shameless in the propaganda dept. brentspeak Jul 2013 #110
Thou doth protest too much? I made no such accusation here or the post you linked to. pampango Jul 2013 #112
Comedy gold brentspeak Jul 2013 #113
Indeed support was dropping among Democrats, but a plurality still supported it. pampango Jul 2013 #117
NAFTA was supported by Democratic President Bill Clinton and received bipartisan support in Congress Freddie Stubbs Jul 2013 #96
Yes that is history. Why did you mention it? Are you trying to make a point? If so, rhett o rick Jul 2013 #98
I am refuting your insinuation that supporting NAFTA is a sign that someone is a Republican Freddie Stubbs Jul 2013 #99
"According to Barack Obama on the campaign trail, ..." Oh, great. Now we know which way he's going AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #54
kr HiPointDem Jul 2013 #71
Fuck people who are telling you that you are posting too much about the TPP. Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #73
Nothing can break the grasp of dissonance as has been evidenced Puzzledtraveller Jul 2013 #75
Please, just keep posting CanonRay Jul 2013 #76
Kick Kick Kick! truebluegreen Jul 2013 #79
K & R historylovr Jul 2013 #84
This is a useful OP grantcart Jul 2013 #90
Who told you you was posting too much on TPP? ReRe Jul 2013 #100
what scares me the most is questionseverything Jul 2013 #101
Secret treaties, secret laws, secret courts... and whistleblowers are public enemy #1. Marr Jul 2013 #115
For anyone who doesn't think that Obama's directly involved with the Trans Pacific Partnership AZ Progressive Jul 2013 #118
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