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In reply to the discussion: civil war on DU [View all]

summer-hazz

(112 posts)
119. Generally, I read all posts before I comment...
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 12:26 AM
Jun 2013


This time I will post prior to reading them.

For me..it is quite simple...

NO MORE CENTRIST OR THIRD WAY CANDIDATES!!!!!

I want a "to the left Democrat"! A real Democrat...
We are loosing to much in the way of progress to continue this evolution.

It also seems that, (from what I have read here on DU), if Hillary decides to run for POTUS she would most likely win..and I agree she is brilliant!!!Please tell me why I want another Third Way/Centrist?
Are people just caught up in voting for a Woman? I'm a woman.. why her? Yeah, it would be great to have a woman PREZ, but not at the expense of all other things....
civil war on DU [View all] DonCoquixote Jun 2013 OP
I Appreciate the Sentiment, On the Road Jun 2013 #1
Indeed, I still don't know what I should be supporting or objecting! arcane1 Jun 2013 #4
Because it is indefensible. That's not the issue. cui bono Jun 2013 #18
It's absolutely defensible. See my #13 nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #22
No, spying on the American people is not, nor ever was defensible. It is against our laws. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #51
What the administration is doing is totally defensible. You have never addressed my dissertation on stevenleser Jun 2013 #52
I can..... Th1onein Jun 2013 #87
That is your opinion, not a fact based response. stevenleser Jun 2013 #93
Did you see the warrant? Th1onein Jun 2013 #102
What you and I opine isn't at issue. What is at issue is the law and the Constitution. The best stevenleser Jun 2013 #104
Did you see the warrant? Th1onein Jun 2013 #106
I answered. My opinion of the warrant is irrelevant. What's at issue is the law and Constitution. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #109
Your opinion of the warrant is relevant if you wish for others to give your opinion Th1onein Jun 2013 #130
The fourth amendment does not apply to National Security Surveillances. And I am not asking anyone stevenleser Jun 2013 #131
The Fourth Amendment applies to US persons. Th1onein Jul 2013 #207
That is not completely correct. If Americans are participating in foreign sponsored acts against stevenleser Jul 2013 #208
THE QUESTION WAS: HAVE YOU SEEN THE WARRANT? Th1onein Jul 2013 #209
Your opinion of the warrant is indeed irrelevant. MNBrewer Jun 2013 #204
BINGO! Th1onein Jul 2013 #210
babble. storing all calls is not an 'exception'. it's storing all calls, all data, *everything*. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #140
Storing, seizing.... MNBrewer Jul 2013 #216
Please provide the full legal citations for the all case titles you've posted. Melinda Jun 2013 #146
Steven, this is about *domestic* surveillance, not foreign espionage muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #147
The records don't contain content. Galraedia Jun 2013 #188
The records ARE content. MNBrewer Jul 2013 #217
Agreed. You can't have a warrant that specifies searching all the houses in Cleveland... HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #123
No, no, and no. stevenleser Jun 2013 #126
85% of FISA warrants in 2011 were drug-related. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #128
Link please. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #129
Transcript of Sen Feingold questioning DOJ. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #134
+1. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #141
EXACTLY. Thank you. Th1onein Jul 2013 #211
Yup. Indefensible. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #26
Before FISA, warrantless wiretapping was legal for foreign intelligence purposes. During the cold stevenleser Jun 2013 #29
Now we are all suspected and you sound just fine with that.......nt Enthusiast Jun 2013 #33
So quick to go ad hominem. Thats the problem with folks on your side of the issue. No, what I want stevenleser Jun 2013 #35
If the ad-hominem fits, wear it......nt Enthusiast Jun 2013 #41
Yes, you should. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #46
There is no ad hominem about it. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #54
You have no facts, you dont understand the issue being discussed, and are making it all about me. stevenleser Jun 2013 #70
I do understand that the government engaged in the greatest act of surveillance in all of history. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #80
You're already wrong. Prior to FISA in 1978, warrantless wiretapping was legal. All the President stevenleser Jun 2013 #81
There are far more solid arguments against your position.......nt. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #82
No one on DU has ever provided any, despite my transcript being out for three weeks. stevenleser Jun 2013 #83
I'm not going to dig up the threads but Enthusiast Jun 2013 #85
You can't crush an argument if you provide no facts. Insulting me doesnt crush my arguments. stevenleser Jun 2013 #86
The problem is, your facts are in question..............nt Enthusiast Jun 2013 #94
No, they're not. I'm supported by relevant federal appeals court decisions and the facts and history stevenleser Jun 2013 #95
I'm sorry to inform you of this fact but Enthusiast Jun 2013 #98
And another comment with an ad-hominem at the close. You really can't help yourself, can you? stevenleser Jun 2013 #107
Has the country recognized this pronouncement? treestar Jun 2013 #184
Here is the cross post of the transcript in GD. You can see the responses for yourself. No one stevenleser Jun 2013 #89
It is always the same. zeemike Jun 2013 #99
So make a fact based argument against what I wrote. I'm all ears. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #103
What again? zeemike Jun 2013 #110
IF you are conceding that there are no facts you can bring to bear to refute me, I accept. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #112
Your arguments are bogus....nt Enthusiast Jun 2013 #111
With that kind of logic you should apply for a job helping Rush Limbaugh. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #113
Bogus Enthusiast Jun 2013 #116
just repeating that treestar Jun 2013 #186
When someone makes a bogus assertion, as you have, Enthusiast Jun 2013 #191
Like your "omergerd you hate Obama!" "logic" in this thread? nt Union Scribe Jun 2013 #120
Which is something I said never... nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #121
No, because at least that would have been funny. Union Scribe Jun 2013 #124
Which post, the one where the person had a paragraph long rant at Obama that was all one sided stevenleser Jun 2013 #125
Now *that's* an ad hominem (nt) muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #148
Now who is engaging in ad hominem attacks? Th1onein Jul 2013 #215
Legal does not make it right or defensible. Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #137
What you believe and what the courts interpret treestar Jun 2013 #185
So how about waiting until the case is heard then, Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #198
I don't see many posters with their hair on fire on this treestar Jun 2013 #202
Or perhaps you are too willing to believe that the ONLY valid objection Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #203
I think you have a very liberal definition of the word "oversight" that I do not agree with. MNBrewer Jul 2013 #218
Oh yes, Steven, only YOU know about the issue being discussed. Th1onein Jul 2013 #214
Wow....that kinda reminds me of something that went down here... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #71
Sure, see my #13. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #74
no ad hom. you are defending it & sound just fine with it. fact. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #142
We've given you that, Steven, but it doesn't seem to matter to you. Th1onein Jul 2013 #212
And thankfully that omission was fixed after it was abused. Then it was unfixed to protect sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #55
OK, Well in That Case... On the Road Jun 2013 #36
LMAO. So true! But the folks you are talking about won't see it. stevenleser Jun 2013 #43
In a matter of conscience, Eddie Haskell Jun 2013 #178
They is spying on me! snooper2 Jul 2013 #206
I believe most of us are not worshippers or haters of Obama. Curmudgeoness Jun 2013 #2
Except ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #53
I do not think Obama is evil, and I have supported him Curmudgeoness Jun 2013 #60
Me, either. And I've been looking. BlueCaliDem Jun 2013 #168
I'm happy to K&R this rational thread. arcane1 Jun 2013 #3
I would suggest ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #57
If people want right-of-Clinton, they should vote GOP leftstreet Jun 2013 #5
+1, but its a lesson we failed to grasp twice DJ13 Jun 2013 #8
+2 Enthusiast Jun 2013 #28
You've managed to straw man all of DU with that comment. Quite an accomplishment. stevenleser Jun 2013 #24
Actually, no it does not. RC Jun 2013 #64
If I'm right that no one here wants right of Clinton, then that poster did post a straw man. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #68
actually, I did not DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #149
It was the OP's claim, not mine leftstreet Jun 2013 #69
I stand corrected and apologize. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #75
After watching Bill Clinton take our party to the right I find it impossible to accept... L0oniX Jun 2013 #6
One thing is for sure: railsback Jun 2013 #7
No they are laughing at us because some of us zeemike Jun 2013 #105
No, they're laughing because after years of accusing the Right of being fact-free railsback Jun 2013 #114
No that is not true zeemike Jun 2013 #117
I didn't say they were concerned about the NSA. They like that shit railsback Jun 2013 #173
Well that is true enough. zeemike Jun 2013 #190
That post lacks objectivity treestar Jun 2013 #9
first off, define "my side" DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #150
the ones calling others "authoritarian shitheads" treestar Jun 2013 #170
and THAT is who you lumped me in with? DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #174
Indeed. I am ashamed of many DUers who I have long respected. longship Jun 2013 #10
Not trying to be a total smart-ass (OK, maybe just a little), but HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #11
+1 most important thread on DU in a while (nt) Recursion Jun 2013 #92
Accusing me of supporting slavery is fair? baldguy Jun 2013 #101
That's how you can tell marions ghost Jun 2013 #12
Damn, but how I wish you would make this an OP, so HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #133
+1. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #143
key word,civil DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #151
To rigid thinkers marions ghost Jun 2013 #169
I'm surprised I can see your post. I've trashed NSA, Snowden and Greenwald. I've done that because stevenleser Jun 2013 #13
I just moved to Vegas this year. The temp hit over 115 today.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #79
Interesting MFrohike Jun 2013 #145
Too many people have too much invested in what others on THIS BOARD do or think alcibiades_mystery Jun 2013 #14
Nothing that happens on DU has any bearing outside of DU. Some may think it does, but no. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #15
You're right, of course. It's amazing to see the number of posts where some think this matters. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #58
Wait for 2014 nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #16
This is nothing new. The right vs left fight has been going on since the founding of the party. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #17
...and its not a Republican plot burnodo Jun 2013 #20
I doubt DU has much 840high Jun 2013 #19
The tent is too damn big. GeorgeGist Jun 2013 #21
If this is Civil War I belong to the Union flamingdem Jun 2013 #23
K&R! Some don't even recognize the existence of an oligarchy......nt Enthusiast Jun 2013 #25
Since most likely Hillary will run in 2016 and be the nominee, I wonder about the "won't tolerate still_one Jun 2013 #27
I don't know anyone on DU who hates the president Doctor_J Jun 2013 #30
Yes, you are demonstrating so much non-hate with that post. Please, let no one ever "not-hate" me stevenleser Jun 2013 #32
What a complete load of shit.........nt Enthusiast Jun 2013 #34
I'm trying to think of a way your two posts to me so far could be worth less. I can't. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #37
+1 well said Steven flamingdem Jun 2013 #38
Stating the truth about this "Democrat" isn't "hate." duffyduff Jun 2013 #39
It's not the truth, like most negative comments you see about Obama here. It's biased B.S. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #40
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Jun 2013 #42
There was nothing but hate in that post. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #44
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Jun 2013 #47
It's a fact. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #48
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Jun 2013 #56
That is fucking awesome. Autumn Jun 2013 #201
+1 DCBob Jun 2013 #78
you can't distinguish between criticism of policy & "hate". HiPointDem Jun 2013 #144
You are apparently under a misconception LWolf Jun 2013 #154
Cleverly written Kolesar Jun 2013 #158
+1 leftstreet Jun 2013 #73
+1 sibelian Jun 2013 #196
Arguments for the status quo are ridiculous at this point! Enthusiast Jun 2013 #31
er DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #152
To crush your enemies demwing Jun 2013 #45
Excellent Conan reference! And the rest is unfortunately true as well. stevenleser Jun 2013 #49
Yeah, too many, in fact demwing Jun 2013 #97
Refusing to join the fray, I instead will join this meta-fray ABOUT the fray wtmusic Jun 2013 #50
I agree that the name calling is awful and pointless MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #59
I believe Obama Phlem Jun 2013 #72
Why can't people see this? summer-hazz Jun 2013 #135
+1 sibelian Jun 2013 #197
I would say the same on Obama's gay rights policies dbackjon Jun 2013 #61
I would say that LGBT folks would be right to say that, but not so much on the NSA issue, etc. stevenleser Jun 2013 #65
Where you here for the Obama/Hillary War? Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #62
Good luck with this, though I think your OP is a little one-sided, but well-intentioned. Denzil_DC Jun 2013 #63
++ flamingdem Jun 2013 #66
The GOP did plan it that way. They've bought out both sides of media. And they're ratfucking us. freshwest Jun 2013 #91
I think ratfucking is always a possibility in political activity, especially online, Denzil_DC Jun 2013 #108
Absolutely nailed it. nt Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #122
Hate to burst your bubble, but the party leadership, including anyone that will be Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #67
i don't know if they themselves are the oligarchy BOG PERSON Jun 2013 #90
Any plausible Democratic candidate is just the better wing of the same oligarchy. leveymg Jun 2013 #76
We Need To Be Clear That The Democratic Party Is Run By The 1% - Accept That Or Demand Change cantbeserious Jun 2013 #77
There may be an entrepreneurial opportunity here... pinboy3niner Jun 2013 #84
knock JEFF9K Jun 2013 #88
"I don't see how this can help Republicans." Denzil_DC Jun 2013 #100
How does electing and supporting LWolf Jun 2013 #153
Thanks for providing an excellent example of what we've been talking about above. n/t Denzil_DC Jun 2013 #155
I'm not sure what you mean LWolf Jun 2013 #157
"I only saw you talking about attacks on Obama supporters above." Denzil_DC Jun 2013 #164
Okay. I thought I looked pretty closely, LWolf Jun 2013 #165
This is not an interrogation. n/t Denzil_DC Jun 2013 #166
Okay. It's a one-way street. Got it. nt LWolf Jun 2013 #167
the choice JEFF9K Jun 2013 #171
I wasn't aware Obama was standing for a third term. n/t Denzil_DC Jun 2013 #179
dem. vs. rep. JEFF9K Jul 2013 #205
An unintended play on words perhaps? 99Forever Jun 2013 #96
sigh again DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #175
Well sir... 99Forever Jun 2013 #181
I am not talking about GOP DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #182
Ah yes... 99Forever Jun 2013 #187
Well, at least you admit you dont care to work with people DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #189
A Civil War... On DU.... And neither side has selected me as their ruler yet? Fools... Ohio Joe Jun 2013 #115
The bright side BainsBane Jun 2013 #118
Generally, I read all posts before I comment... summer-hazz Jun 2013 #119
"Look , all you assholes are wrong and I'm right " Narkos Jun 2013 #127
Good points, DonCoquixote Hekate Jun 2013 #132
What principles do we stand for, together, regardless of whomever is president? Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #136
It's a nice sentiment, but we are far too well played by the right. jeff47 Jun 2013 #138
^^ the truth is right up there flamingdem Jun 2013 #139
Some of us are not that angry over Obama's NSA policy. Progressive dog Jun 2013 #156
It is a "scandal" made up by the GOP, and it is trolling by DUers Kolesar Jun 2013 #159
No, Kolesar, that is not correct at all. Th1onein Jul 2013 #213
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #160
LOL....is that a promise? maddezmom Jun 2013 #161
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #163
Darn! I missed seeing another one. In_The_Wind Jun 2013 #172
Well said. There is a lot at stake in upcoming elections. DrewFlorida Jun 2013 #162
The people defending the NSA actions ARE republicans Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #176
Indeed Oilwellian Jun 2013 #183
The Teabaggers want a civil war everywhere. Turbineguy Jun 2013 #177
Liberals are united against this nonsense...Democrats are not. davidn3600 Jun 2013 #180
There's no civil war. woo me with science Jun 2013 #192
+ 1000 sibelian Jun 2013 #195
The corporate Dems Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #200
"Civil War"? Hardly that big a deal. CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #193
good thread Liberal_in_LA Jun 2013 #194
It looks to be a little too late for 2014. Ash_F Jun 2013 #199
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