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Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
65. No, you won't but that's OK because I don't have expectations of you.
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 11:43 AM
Jun 2013

You're ridiculous because the spying is what the story is about. And you know that.

In one post you will deny it's spying but then in another post you claim they got a warrant and followed the law according to the laws that involve spying. If you're Not-Spying you don't need to invoke laws that govern spying. If you're Not-Spying on people you don't need a warrant.

You also like to claim MD is harmless and not invasive. If it was harmless and not invasive it would also be useless. But apparently the NSA thinks it is useful for finding people, presumably people who don't want to be found and are actively working to not be found.

You claim Clapper didn't lie. Didn't lie about a program you claim doesn't exist. He didn't lie about a non-existent program that is supposedly OK because if it did exist it would be lawful. He didn't lie about a non-existent program that is lawful and supposedly received a warrant. He didn't lie about a non-existent program that followed the law and got a warrant it didn't need to collect harmless meta-data. He didn't lie about a non-existent program that supposedly followed the law and got a warrant it didn't need to collect harmless meta-data which is good because if he didn't lie about a non-existent program that supposedly followed the law and got a warrant it didn't need to collect harmless meta-data some people might get the wrong idea about what he was really trying to do.

Your every ridiculous evasion is based on half-arguments. You argue only half the topic at hand and use the unspoken half as the escape route and as soon as you get pinned down on your omissions you run back in the other direction. It's flagrantly obvious and tedious.

There is a difference between leaking and whistleblowing. randome Jun 2013 #1
The abuse of FISA, PRISM, surveilling journalists and kill lists are still realities. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #2
All the NSA stuff is based on Snowden's ridiculous claims that have no evidence. randome Jun 2013 #11
You contradict yourself Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #14
His claim about the phone metadata was obviously correct. randome Jun 2013 #16
How can it be a legal warrant? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #21
First the phone metadata has always been ruled as belonging to the companies, not individuals. randome Jun 2013 #23
That MD belongs to the carrier service is irrelevant. It allows a blanket invasion against citizens Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #26
'Irrelevant'? The law permits this and now you say it is irrelevant. randome Jun 2013 #29
The OP is not about whether they have legal cover or not. All powers try to validate their GoneFishin Jun 2013 #40
Courts have ruled for a hundred years or so that third-party records are not yours. randome Jun 2013 #74
Bullshit. What do you think retroactive immunity for the telecoms was all about. LEGAL COVER. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #150
I hope you enjoy giving this power to the president backwoodsbob Jun 2013 #70
What 'power' are you talking about? randome Jun 2013 #80
What law permits spying on the American people? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #131
Show me that the NSA is doing that. randome Jun 2013 #137
For the umpteenth time, it's not just metadata, and you know it. Th1onein Jun 2013 #97
How do you know it's more than metadata? randome Jun 2013 #100
Do you read ANYTHING on this topic, Randome, or do you just blather on? Th1onein Jun 2013 #103
Your hair on fire paranoia is showing DontTreadOnMe Jun 2013 #134
Paranoid? I think not. Th1onein Jun 2013 #144
when randome says one thing in one thread, that directly contradicts what he said in another thread Monkie Jun 2013 #142
Re: Bullshit? Red Oak Jun 2013 #69
I could steal a pencil from the office and use that as evidence I stole something, Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #98
If you stole heroin from the office it would be proof your boss deals heroin. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #104
Also illegal Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #107
Then they should share a cell. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #108
This is hilarious! You've got to be kidding! Th1onein Jun 2013 #92
What is 'it'? randome Jun 2013 #96
Can you say obsfucate? Th1onein Jun 2013 #99
He's deeply invested in never "getting it". DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #167
HEY RANDOME! Here is the info you need to educate yourself! Th1onein Jun 2013 #115
Every bit of that is supposition and innuendo. randome Jun 2013 #120
Yeah, that Utah facility is probably just a big, BIG fitness center. Th1onein Jun 2013 #145
It's still in the process of being built is my point. randome Jun 2013 #146
Wow, not a good arguement at ALL. Th1onein Jun 2013 #148
It's a waste of time. PSPS Jun 2013 #24
You forgot Meta Data, Meta Data, Meta Data, Meta Data, Meta Data, Meta Data, GoneFishin Jun 2013 #43
You believe that why? tblue Jun 2013 #55
You misunderstood the tone of my post. It is in the context of a list of tired and worn excuses. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #149
I think that about covers it. I've been accused of being at least two of those as I SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #66
There's a new one out now: Rand Paul supporters put this scandal out there. Th1onein Jun 2013 #105
There certainly is think Jun 2013 #9
Bringing up Bush Era abuses does not support Snowden's ridiculous claims. randome Jun 2013 #13
Snowden's ridiculous claims? think Jun 2013 #15
And yet no one can furnish evidence of this. It's all just manufactured crisis crap. randome Jun 2013 #17
So, their testimony means nothing? ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #153
The Patriot Act revisions indirectly made legal what was illegal under Bush think Jun 2013 #20
You are seeing what you want to see. randome Jun 2013 #25
How do you use the FOREIGN Intelligence Surveillance Act for a solely domestic operation? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #28
You don't. Where is the evidence that the NSA does that? randome Jun 2013 #30
Now you're just playing ridiculous games. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #37
Right. Asking for evidence is 'ridiculous'. randome Jun 2013 #41
No, you won't but that's OK because I don't have expectations of you. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #65
Show me evidence that the NSA is spying on all of America. randome Jun 2013 #67
Collecting metadata for intel purposes is spying Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #73
I don't consider it to be spying. I understand your point of view but I disagree with it. randome Jun 2013 #76
"I don't consider it to be spying." Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #82
And some continue to ignore facts that are as plain as day think Jun 2013 #34
"...sometimes circumvented the spirit of the law..." isn't that melodramatic where I come from. randome Jun 2013 #39
What are the "ridiculous" claims of Snowden that you keep refering to? think Jun 2013 #47
It's how the system works. Agencies are called to account all the time. randome Jun 2013 #51
By "fine line," I assume you're talking about that toss of a coin + 1%, right? Th1onein Jun 2013 #101
If an analyst is looking at an email that suggests something illegal... randome Jun 2013 #106
I've seen the same documents you have, Randome. You're obsfucating again. Th1onein Jun 2013 #110
Why do you keep saying they are pulling everything? There is no evidence of that. randome Jun 2013 #112
BECAUSE THEY ARE PULLING EVERYTHING. Th1onein Jun 2013 #147
So according to you, under President Obama A Simple Game Jun 2013 #62
What 'fact'? You haven't provided any. randome Jun 2013 #64
he's shown no evidence of his wild claims. DJ13 Jun 2013 #119
You steal from your employer, you go to jail. It's that simple. randome Jun 2013 #121
Perhaps I don't understand, what if anything has changed from Bush to President Obama A Simple Game Jun 2013 #123
The FISA Amendments Act of 2008. randome Jun 2013 #127
You misunderstood my question, what changed from Bush to President Obama? A Simple Game Jun 2013 #130
I mistakenly believed Obama had a hand in that. But he did have a hand in this. randome Jun 2013 #135
Only to those in power. morningfog Jun 2013 #58
In case you haven't been paying attention for the past hundred years or so... randome Jun 2013 #60
Obama is in power, it is on his terms and definitions that he goes after "leakers" morningfog Jun 2013 #113
Do you actually know the difference? n/t ReRe Jun 2013 #72
I don't know the precise legal terms myself but I know they have very different legal meanings. randome Jun 2013 #79
OK... ReRe Jun 2013 #88
Drake also stole documents and I believe that was the only charge that stuck, wasn't it? randome Jun 2013 #89
Whatever. ReRe Jun 2013 #117
"Legal meanings" Bonobo Jun 2013 #154
Well, actually we're in a time when social networks railsback Jun 2013 #3
K & R Wonderful report, also the freedom to move about the country and our home streets might be a Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #5
These were powers given to Bush Turbineguy Jun 2013 #4
I did not like the wiretapping without a warrant or even when the excuse we don't have time to Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #8
You cannot deny - Hell Hath No Fury Jun 2013 #38
+100% mazzarro Jun 2013 #6
The courts will decide treestar Jun 2013 #7
Do you think this will be overturned by courts, those judges know the Constitution and will see the Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #10
They courts upheld the FISA treestar Jun 2013 #18
I might win the lottery even though I hardly buy a ticket. Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #109
What has that got to do with it? treestar Jun 2013 #122
These same courts abused the FOREIGN Intel Surveillance Act and the 4A Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #12
Look if you can't trust the US system of government at all treestar Jun 2013 #19
It will become the worst of the worst if you insist on sad arguments like that. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #22
What do you intend to do about it? treestar Jun 2013 #32
We should accept our fate like good little subjects. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #52
So we can't do anything? treestar Jun 2013 #61
But you don't want anything done. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #85
Don't put it on me treestar Jun 2013 #86
I don't want another system. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #93
The courts decide whether it is constitutional or not treestar Jun 2013 #124
Because that isn't the system we have. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #126
The interpretation of the Fourth Amendment treestar Jun 2013 #129
Ultimately the citizens of this ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #155
Didn't a few of your trotters live under a monarchy Progressive dog Jun 2013 #63
Don't forget Santayana - nt HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #160
So...the system works? randome Jun 2013 #27
No, the system did not work Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #31
So the system is to send to jail people you believe have done wrong? treestar Jun 2013 #33
It's better than your system where the law and the Constitution are ignored to spy on everyone. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #44
the law and the Constitution are ignored? treestar Jun 2013 #48
Please cite the probable cause for the NSA program. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #53
Non responsive treestar Jun 2013 #59
No warrant can be issued without probable cause. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #68
There have been a zillion cases in the courts on that very question treestar Jun 2013 #71
FISA is for foreign agents Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #75
Cite what? treestar Jun 2013 #84
"Cite what?" Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #90
I cited cases that have to do with spying treestar Jun 2013 #125
Good evidence for my contention Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #128
There is no evidence of 'wholesale spying on Americans inside America'. None. randome Jun 2013 #35
Clapper lied. He had time to prepare an answer and he had time to privately amend his answer Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #42
'Prepare an answer'? What could he possibly have said? randome Jun 2013 #46
You're being ridiculous again. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #54
Maybe he was afraid that some would blow it out of proportion. If so, he called that right. randome Jun 2013 #56
Why settle for ridiculous when you can shoot for fanciful? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #57
when randome says one thing in one thread, that directly contradicts what he said in another thread Monkie Jun 2013 #143
He lied. Let's call it what it was. He could have answered the question by saying SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #77
Yes, he lied about something he was sworn to keep secret. randome Jun 2013 #83
Let me guess. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #94
There have been at least three other whistle blowers that have verified what he said. Getting SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #114
The only 'secret document' that has shown anything is the warrant about phone metadata. randome Jun 2013 #118
That's an extremely parsed view. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #132
Metadata is not your 'papers'. They belong to the telecom companies. randome Jun 2013 #136
They *needed* the warrant because the meta data does touch on the fourth amendment SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #138
We don't know that texts & emails are being collected. randome Jun 2013 #139
Sorry for the delay in responding. We were out to dinner last night with friends. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #165
Why do you keep saying strictly domestic communications? bornskeptic Jun 2013 #141
A-FUCKIN'-MEN! Hell Hath No Fury Jun 2013 #36
K&R Also about the guy BEFORE Obama - and if that walking-around-free-thanks-to-Obama war criminal MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #45
So it's about the guy before Obama... Iggo Jun 2013 #49
Good OP. .... Same regurgitated excuses. Anybody buy this stuff anymore? GoneFishin Jun 2013 #50
Absolutely! ReRe Jun 2013 #78
+ 1,000,000 dawg Jun 2013 #81
+ 1,000,001 forestpath Jun 2013 #87
Make that 1,000,002 RC Jun 2013 #116
Very few people realized the momentum behind the events of today siligut Jun 2013 #91
"I could rec this if you hadn't added the second paragraph." Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #102
Maybe it is his idealism that believes it can be tamed siligut Jun 2013 #111
We're deluding ourselves if we think we can stop this once and for all. pnwmom Jun 2013 #95
We need to make it the political kiss of death for a Democrat to support this. dawg Jun 2013 #151
It would be the political kiss of death if a President pnwmom Jun 2013 #152
Well, then why stop there? dawg Jun 2013 #156
Why NOT stop there? pnwmom Jun 2013 #157
Meta data on all Americans is a step too far. dawg Jun 2013 #158
There was a related Supreme Court decision decades ago, pnwmom Jun 2013 #159
There was one that said separate but equal was okay too. dawg Jun 2013 #161
I didn't say we should be doing it. pnwmom Jun 2013 #163
Wrong is wrong. dawg Jun 2013 #164
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #133
THANK YOU!!!! YOU ARE 100% CORRECT!!!! Yavin4 Jun 2013 #140
The obstructionists got away with fucking murder under Bush. We cannot allow that to happen again. Initech Jun 2013 #162
Reality. Great post. nt Zorra Jun 2013 #166
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