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In reply to the discussion: When Men Hate Women: Femicide in Ciudad Juarez [View all]BainsBane
(52,999 posts)138. The ATF shows 87% came from the US, murder apologist corp. says 90% didn't come from US
Firstly, RW distortion of government reports are not proof. The concept of evidence is clearly lost on you. You must hear boatloads of evidence on Fox and Rush all day long. Evidence is not someone telling you what you want to hear.
The primary source is the GAO report itself. Not your RW buddies at Stratfor.
I've seen this before. They conclude those where the serial numbers have been sawed off didn't come from the US. The ATF says 87% of guns that they could trace came from the US. The rest only says they could not be traced. That doesn't say they came from elsewhere. That says the criminals and or illegal gun filed down the serial numbers so they couldn't be traced.
this is what the actual US governmental report said.
Available evidence indicates many of the firearms fueling Mexican drug
violence originated in the United States, including a growing number of
increasingly lethal weapons. While it is impossible to know how many
firearms are illegally smuggled into Mexico in a given year, about 87 percent
of firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced in the last 5 years
originated in the United States, according to data from Department of
Justices Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).
According to U.S. and Mexican government officials, these firearms have been
increasingly more powerful and lethal in recent years. Many of these firearms
come from gun shops and gun shows in Southwest border states. U.S. and
Mexican government and law enforcement officials stated most firearms are
intended to support operations of Mexican DTOs, which are also responsible
for trafficking arms to Mexico.
The U.S. government faces several significant challenges in combating illicit
sales of firearms in the United States and stemming their flow into Mexico. In
particular, certain provisions of some federal firearms laws present challenges
to U.S. efforts, according to ATF officials. Specifically, officials identified key
challenges related to restrictions on collecting and reporting information on
firearms purchases, a lack of required background checks for private firearms
sales, and limitations on reporting requirements for multiple sales.
violence originated in the United States, including a growing number of
increasingly lethal weapons. While it is impossible to know how many
firearms are illegally smuggled into Mexico in a given year, about 87 percent
of firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced in the last 5 years
originated in the United States, according to data from Department of
Justices Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).
According to U.S. and Mexican government officials, these firearms have been
increasingly more powerful and lethal in recent years. Many of these firearms
come from gun shops and gun shows in Southwest border states. U.S. and
Mexican government and law enforcement officials stated most firearms are
intended to support operations of Mexican DTOs, which are also responsible
for trafficking arms to Mexico.
The U.S. government faces several significant challenges in combating illicit
sales of firearms in the United States and stemming their flow into Mexico. In
particular, certain provisions of some federal firearms laws present challenges
to U.S. efforts, according to ATF officials. Specifically, officials identified key
challenges related to restrictions on collecting and reporting information on
firearms purchases, a lack of required background checks for private firearms
sales, and limitations on reporting requirements for multiple sales.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09709.pdf
I taught research methods classes for several years. If anyone sites a secondary rather than a primary source for this kind of evidence, their work cannot be published in a peer reviewed journal. Secondary sources can be used only to analyze interpretation and reception, not factual matters where guns come from.
The absence of the ability to trace all the guns does not mean that the guns didn't come from the US. That means they aren't traceable. It is a logical fallacy to conclude that it constitutes evidence that they come from lands far away. The very best you can say is that there is not incontrovertible proof that those guns from the US, yet the fact the traceable guns overwhelmingly can be tied to the US makes it a safe assumption that most of the others come from the US as well. The ATF assumes they do, as does the Mexican government. The report shows that the percentage of guns that do come from the US have increased every year.
In the past gunners have pointed to Central America as an alternative source of guns. Their lack of knowledge of recent US foreign policy means they overlook the fact that guns in Central America were supplied by the US government in order to combat communist guerrillas there. We waged war on Central America, and the resulting violence in that region since is the fallout of the decommissioning of death squads. For proof to that I'll have to refer you to any number of publications on US involvement in the region: NACLA is one publication, and there are reams of books in the library. Those publications can in turn direct you to the primary sources they used.
Read the whole report. Just don't continue to falsify what it says.
You might also search ministerio de justicia reports for Mexico to read what they have to say about the gun issue.
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k and r for this horrific story. I used to go to ciudad juarez years ago, when it was relatively
niyad
Jun 2013
#1
I would guess that NAFTA contributed to a flood of new female workers to Juarez...
antigone382
Jun 2013
#26
Do you have any evidence that the killers are Americans crossing the border for kicks?
GreenStormCloud
Jun 2013
#16
Why are you making this a fight? Why does this conversation make you jump to being offended?
Squinch
Jun 2013
#41
I know - American CCW holders killing women and smuggling the bodies into Mexico
hack89
Jun 2013
#58
What percentage of guns did the Mexican goverment submit to the US government for tracing?
hack89
Jun 2013
#145
no, i get it and you are correct. its an attempt to define a protected class. i fight it often. nt
galileoreloaded
Jun 2013
#27
i think you might need or want a break from DU because your ability to read my mind
galileoreloaded
Jun 2013
#39
men are murdered 3-1 over women nationally. go bark up a different tree nt
galileoreloaded
Jun 2013
#44
so men killing men doesn't count. most sexist quote ive seen on DU. please stop making
galileoreloaded
Jun 2013
#48
Yeah, that has to do with the minor fact the serial killers are targeting women
BainsBane
Jun 2013
#32
Reading comprehension, much? The OP DOES mention men, but notes that their murders ARE NOT
WinkyDink
Jun 2013
#42
If you would like to make an OP about the deaths of men in Juarez, which are primarily from the
Squinch
Jun 2013
#65
there is nothing stopping you from posting an article on the number of men killed, you know.
niyad
Jun 2013
#114
Most of the cartel's guns are smuggled in for countries that make real AK-47s.
GreenStormCloud
Jun 2013
#86
The ATF shows 87% came from the US, murder apologist corp. says 90% didn't come from US
BainsBane
Jun 2013
#138
Start your own thread, then. BTW: Serial sex murders are not the same category as other killings.
WinkyDink
Jun 2013
#45
I don't think that illustrating concern for A denies in any way any additional concern for B.
LanternWaste
Jun 2013
#117
So it's OK for you to hijack a discussion about a serial killer to push a fight from another thread?
Squinch
Jun 2013
#126
In the other thread she referred to this thread to make her point. N/T
GreenStormCloud
Jun 2013
#165
its nice to see rational thought rewarded 6-0. DU never lets me down! nt
galileoreloaded
Jun 2013
#221