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leveymg

(36,418 posts)
114. I'm not saying US casualties are the goal, just that they are foreseeable. Second, if the same high
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:59 PM
Jun 2013

risk tactics are employed and they result in "incidental" casualties, over and over again, then they aren't mistakes, they are part of a policy that finds American civilian casualties acceptable.

If you don't see that the '93 attack was "known about in advance," I recommend you go back to the following sections:

1) Details how the FBI was aware a large bomb was being constructed from the double-agent who was supposed to mix inert materials into the bomb being constructed:

2) Details how the CIA protected the '93 WTC plotters from the investigations of other federal agencies and law enforcement because the Brooklyn Cell, run by Osama bin Laden, was useful in recruiting Jihadi fighters inside the US being trained to fight the Russians in Afghanistan and elsewhere.


1) February 26, 1993: WTC Is Bombed but Does Not Collapse, as Bombers Had Hoped
Edit event

Bomb damage in underground levels of the WTC in 1993.Bomb damage in underground levels of the WTC in 1993. [Source: Najlah Feanny/ Corbis]An attempt to topple the World Trade Center fails, but six people are killed and over 1000 are injured in the misfired blast. An FBI explosives expert later states that, “If they had found the exact architectural Achilles’ heel or if the bomb had been a little bit bigger, not much more, 500 pounds more, I think it would have brought her down.” Ramzi Yousef, who has close ties to bin Laden, organizes the attempt. [Village Voice, 3/30/1993; US Congress, 2/24/1998] The New York Times later reports on Emad Salem, an undercover agent who will be the key government witness in the trial against Yousef. Salem testifies that the FBI knew about the attack beforehand and told him they would thwart it by substituting a harmless powder for the explosives. However, an FBI supervisor called off this plan, and the bombing was not stopped. [New York Times, 10/28/1993] Other suspects were ineptly investigated before the bombing as early as 1990. Several of the bombers were trained by the CIA to fight in the Afghan war, and the CIA later concludes, in internal documents, that it was “partly culpable” for this bombing (see January 24, 1994). [Independent, 11/1/1998] 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is an uncle of Yousef and also has a role in the WTC bombing (see March 20, 1993). [Independent, 6/6/2002; Los Angeles Times, 9/1/2002] One of the attackers even leaves a message which will later be found by investigators, stating, “Next time, it will be very precise.” [Associated Press, 9/30/2001]

Entity Tags: World Trade Center, Ramzi Yousef, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Emad Salem, Osama bin Laden, Central Intelligence Agency

2) Late 1980s and After: CIA Blocks Investigations into Al-Qaeda’s ‘Operational Headquarters’ in US
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Robert Morgenthau.Robert Morgenthau. [Source: Robert Maass / Corbis]In the late 1980s, Osama bin Laden and his mentor Abdullah Azzam are running a charity front called Maktab al-Khidamat (MAK)/Al-Kifah in Peshawar, Pakistan, and it has an important branch in Brooklyn, New York, called the Al-Kifah Refugee Center that is sending money and recruits to fight in Afghanistan. The CIA apparently helps the Al-Kifah Brooklyn office send up to 200 people from the US to fight in Afghanistan (see 1986-1993). Many of them are US citizens. Zalmay Khalilzad, a State Department Afghan specialist who will go on to become a prominent neoconservative, will later deny knowing of any Arab-Americans fighting with the mujaheddin. But one anonymous Congressional aide will recall occasional mentions of Al-Kifah Refugee Center or its head Mustafa Shalabi by some of the most radical mujaheddin. He will say: “Among that cabal, the extreme militant fringes, Shalabi was known.… [T]hey were asking to talk to him so he could organize some particular assistance.” The Neutrality Act prevents US citizens from fighting against countries not at war with the US, but the New York Times will note, “Yet there is no sign that a criminal investigation ever took place even though federal agents had come across broad hints about the center’s activities when they investigated the [Meir] Kahane assassination [in 1990] (see November 5, 1990) and the slaying of Mr. Shalabi [in 1991]” (see (February 28, 1991)). Kahane’s assassin, El Sayyid Nosair, was one of Shalabi’s assistants. [New York Times, 4/11/1993] Apparently the CIA’s ties to the Al-Kifah Refugee Center prevent other US agencies from investigating it, even after the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, when all of the bombers are found to have been tied to the center. While Al-Kifah closes itself down shortly after the WTC bombing, it immediately reopens in Boston under a different name and continues to publish the same newsletter and post from the same website (see April 1993-Mid-2003). Robert I. Friedman, writing for New York magazine, will comment, “[W]hen the fanatical fervor [the CIA] whipped up leads to unintended consequences—the assassination of a Jewish militant leader in Manhattan, the bombing of the World Trade Center, a terror conspiracy to blow up the Holland and Lincoln Tunnels and other Manhattan landmarks—[the CIA tried] to discourage local law enforcement agencies and the FBI from looking into the matter too deeply.” After Nosair assassinates Kahane, the FBI tells District Attorney Robert Morgenthau that Nosair was a lone gunman, not part of a broader conspiracy. However, the FBI had truckloads of evidence connecting to Al-Kifah strongly suggesting otherwise that it does not closely investigate. The FBI also blocks him from tying Sheikh Omar Abdul-Rahman to the WTC bombing (see After February 26, 1993). Morgenthau will later speculate the CIA may have encouraged the FBI not to pursue any other leads. “The FBI lied to me,” he will say. “They’re supposed to untangle terrorist connections, but they can’t be trusted to do the job.” [New York Magazine, 3/17/1995] Counterterrorism expert Steven Emerson will call Al-Kifah “al-Qaeda’s operational headquarters in the United States.” [Emerson, 2006, pp. 436] In 1994, a secret internal CIA report will conclude that the agency is “partially culpable” for the WTC bombing because of its support for radicals connected to Al-Kifah. One CIA source will say, “By giving these people the funding that we did, a situation was created in which it could be safely argued that we bombed the World Trade Center” (see January 24, 1994). But even after 1994 there is little evidence that the links from Al-Kifah were carefully explored by any US government agency. For instance, the government will not freeze Al-Kifah’s funds until shortly after 9/11, long after it ceased to exist (see September 24, 2001).

Entity Tags: Zalmay M. Khalilzad, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Maktab al-Khidamat, Al-Kifah Refugee Center, Central Intelligence Agency, El Sayyid Nosair, Mustafa Shalabi, Robert Morgenthau

"The reason the authorities didn't stop Boston is because anti-terror is not the priority." BINGO. WinkyDink Jun 2013 #1
The reason they didn't stop Boston is evidence they do NOT spy on Americans. randome Jun 2013 #3
I can buy that. secondwind Jun 2013 #4
So you think it stops short of SCOTUS TakeALeftTurn Jun 2013 #7
And you know this how? Because it SOUNDS right to you? randome Jun 2013 #10
The reason is caseymoz Jun 2013 #8
They don't need a reason, FISA judges rubber-stamp the warrants. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #77
And that evidence is proof zeemike Jun 2013 #9
You have no evidence that they are collecting data on you or anyone else. randome Jun 2013 #11
They admit they are collecting the data zeemike Jun 2013 #12
They admit to storing the data, I believe. randome Jun 2013 #16
That last paragraph is the most disengenous bit of balderdash I have read lately. Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #21
So if I take all the information out of your computer zeemike Jun 2013 #31
Copying data from one computer to another is easily discovered so it's not the same... randome Jun 2013 #33
A warrant from a secret court zeemike Jun 2013 #43
I'm not 'falling' for it. It is not an admirable system, I admit. randome Jun 2013 #46
Clapper, who is a Booz Allen man says they have gathered it all up. So keep barfing up Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #17
See post #16. randome Jun 2013 #20
What does 'can't' mean? Is it like the Easter Bunny 'can't' be a day early or what? Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #22
The law says they can't. randome Jun 2013 #25
How bout the FISA court already ruling the NSA violated the law? think Jun 2013 #29
The FISA court IS the law, in this instance. randome Jun 2013 #30
You aren't concerned that the NSA violated the law? Seriously? think Jun 2013 #32
Over-reach or mis-steps will occur in ANY government agency. randome Jun 2013 #34
Overreach = SPYING on AMERICANS think Jun 2013 #41
Let me get this straight. Marr Jun 2013 #81
The law also said that they couldn't indiscriminately take our information. But they did it, didn't Th1onein Jun 2013 #78
The same could be said of you, premium Jun 2013 #52
It's 'democratic' in the sense that all 3 branches of the government are involved. randome Jun 2013 #59
Let me re-phrase that, premium Jun 2013 #65
Your statement presumes wrongly caseymoz Jun 2013 #89
But you see .. GeorgeGist Jun 2013 #13
Really? I thought they both were. randome Jun 2013 #14
Nope, premium Jun 2013 #60
Thanks for the info. randome Jun 2013 #63
Sure, one phone has to be outside the US. That's the whole point. bornskeptic Jun 2013 #71
No it is not, at best it shows they are miserable at their jobs, at worst that they are Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #15
I have no reasonable evidence to say they are spying. randome Jun 2013 #18
But you do understand that this is not about your ability to sleep at night? Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #23
You're right. Wanting to 'fix' an agency doesn't require total trust or mis-trust. randome Jun 2013 #38
The reason is the same as 9/11: the Tsarnaevs were part of a CIA program. They aren't investigated leveymg Jun 2013 #27
Yes, the NSA does spy on Americans, nearly all of us from what we can tell so far. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #28
Exactly. They can go back now and check phone numbers used by the bombers pnwmom Jun 2013 #36
Tamerlane was not a US citizen... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #72
ROFLMAO! Th1onein Jun 2013 #76
Brahahahahahahahahahahah... :::catches breath::: RC Jun 2013 #87
Money is the priority. These multi-Billion dollar 'security' Contractors NEED work to do in order to sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #49
And meanwhile, they pre-emptively target peaceful protesters--because THEY are the threat to TPTB. snot Jun 2013 #74
The Federal Oligarch Protection Agency Will Insure Main Street Is Prosecuted Despite The Constitution cantbeserious Jun 2013 #2
k&r (nt) enough Jun 2013 #5
God, I thought I was ugly... ReRe Jun 2013 #6
That was Lawrence Olivier with the drill. leveymg Jun 2013 #37
Ya think? Ha! ReRe Jun 2013 #44
John "Mano Blanco" Negroponte, then Mike "NSA Booz Allen" McConnell. leveymg Jun 2013 #58
Thanks... got lost a minute... n/t ReRe Jun 2013 #73
I am not so sure this is paranoid SouthernLiberal Jun 2013 #19
You Are Correct! sikofit3 Jun 2013 #70
So Boston was LIHOP? Ugh, this entire website has become the 911 Dungeon geek tragedy Jun 2013 #24
No - it was just collatoral damage that's considered acceptable to some in gov't. leveymg Jun 2013 #35
This operates from the myth that every terrorist attack is preventable. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #39
Terrorist attacks have happened over and over again since '93. They are largely preventable. leveymg Jun 2013 #53
They are largely but not entirely preventable. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #55
Agreed. That's why the charges should have been 3000 counts manslaughter, reckless disregard, leveymg Jun 2013 #61
Huh? Whose charges should have been manslaughter instead of murder? nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #62
From program managers right up to the top of the chain of command. leveymg Jun 2013 #64
To his credit, Obama shut down the program that used Awlaki to repeatedly attract AQ terrorists leveymg Jun 2013 #68
So our government knows who the terrorists are and does nothing Progressive dog Jun 2013 #85
You need to start reading up on this subject. Here are some places to start. leveymg Jun 2013 #90
Read some stuff, still curious as to Progressive dog Jun 2013 #113
I'm not saying US casualties are the goal, just that they are foreseeable. Second, if the same high leveymg Jun 2013 #114
Any human endeavor will have errors, Progressive dog Jun 2013 #115
If the same error gets repeated over and over with an expectation of change, it is an insane policy. leveymg Jun 2013 #118
It doesn't, there is no straight path in any investigation Progressive dog Jun 2013 #119
The policy of running Counterterror programs around double-agents didn't change leveymg Jun 2013 #120
Of course not, some of the policy stayed the same Progressive dog Jun 2013 #121
I have no problem with infiltrating hostile groups, but I have a big problem with allowing these leveymg Jun 2013 #122
Why do you say it fails Progressive dog Jun 2013 #123
Finally admit? Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #26
Yeah. Clapper was caught in a lie. morningfog Jun 2013 #40
How so? Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #45
He told Congress in March that the National Security Agency does not intentionally morningfog Jun 2013 #47
You don't know what he means by "collect" Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #51
LOL! BUllshit. It is a lie, and I don't doubt there is more. morningfog Jun 2013 #56
Clapper himself said this Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #91
You are citing the liar trying to defend his lie after he was caught? Hahahaha. morningfog Jun 2013 #94
Liar is your opinion Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #95
Even he conceded he was untruthful. He clearly lied. I look forward to more lies morningfog Jun 2013 #96
I believe he will clarify himself better Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #98
He's already made two contradictory statements. Clarity is no longer availible. morningfog Jun 2013 #100
That's right. Stifle any chance of Clapper clarifying himself Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #101
I don't care much for liars. He's already busted, bub. morningfog Jun 2013 #102
Like I said. That's your opinion Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #103
He only changed the meaning of collection after getting caught in the lie. morningfog Jun 2013 #109
Yep Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #110
If it is a "smear job" it is being led by clapper himself. morningfog Jun 2013 #112
Oh, brother. Marr Jun 2013 #83
Clapper himself said this Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #92
Wow-- you're telling me the liar had an explanation for why his lie wasn't a lie? Marr Jun 2013 #97
Liar is your opinion Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #99
He very obviously lied. Marr Jun 2013 #108
Wow. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #86
Clapper himself said this Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #93
No they haven't. Your links don't prove that. Clapper has acknowledged pnwmom Jun 2013 #42
Clapper acknowledges it now, after being caught in a lie. morningfog Jun 2013 #48
No he doesn't, and it wasn't a lie. pnwmom Jun 2013 #50
I am sure you gave the bush lies the same parsing and deference. morningfog Jun 2013 #57
Absolutely a violation of the fundamental trust marions ghost Jun 2013 #54
+1000. premium Jun 2013 #67
There is no defense for the un-American Patriot Act marions ghost Jun 2013 #69
If they CAN do it, they WILL do it. Not rocket science, that. closeupready Jun 2013 #66
Knowledge is power, & a balance of power requires a balance of knowledge; & snot Jun 2013 #75
"They say that they won't look at the records without a good reason." CrispyQ Jun 2013 #79
What is the next fall-back position? Coyotl Jun 2013 #80
Yes, but I am constantly being reminded that this story is from 2006... Earth_First Jun 2013 #82
pen register peasant one Jun 2013 #84
Huge K&R woo me with science Jun 2013 #88
I think the OP has it right and wrong at the same time Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #104
They will use their blackmail powers "judiciously" TakeALeftTurn Jun 2013 #107
They're recording "the contents of every phone call made"? arcane1 Jun 2013 #105
They can get the contents of ALL phone calls AFTER the event TakeALeftTurn Jun 2013 #106
Yes. By going to a judge, showing probable cause, and getting a warrant pnwmom Jun 2013 #111
You are assuming an awful lot of trust for something that has absolutely zero oversight TakeALeftTurn Jun 2013 #116
I trust Obama more than Snowden or Greenwald. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #117
Too much huffing and puffing Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #124
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