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KoKo

(84,711 posts)

149. What's going on now with our Tech Revolution is way beyond what you are

Fri Jun 7, 2013, 05:02 PM

Jun 2013

talking about. You are thinking about the Al Capone days and Herbert Hoover times. Our technology age has come so fast that the legal system just can't keep up with it to provide protections for consumers. There are some Think Tanks and Legal Scholars working on it...and EFF has addressed this. Our Govt. can't keep up with it...but, the Private Outsourcing companies (our Govt. is using to "save money" are having a grand old time exploiting the legal holes in Data Collection on private citizens.

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For those of you claiming this is better because there is a warrant. [View all] Aerows Jun 2013 OP

The point of a warrant is that it means judicial involvment geek tragedy Jun 2013 #1

And it doesn't disturb you Aerows Jun 2013 #3

Judicial involvement is never irrelevant. nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #4

It is when you can't bring anyone Aerows Jun 2013 #7

Someone would need to demonstrate harm and then you can ALWAYS take officials to task. randome Jun 2013 #16

That's not the point, premium Jun 2013 #21

Do you know how many legal warrants are issued that 'we, the people' never see? randome Jun 2013 #25

You're kidding right? premium Jun 2013 #28

Exactly Aerows Jun 2013 #29

Absolutely. premium Jun 2013 #33

There are many different types at DU. Don't let one cohort get you down BlueStreak Jun 2013 #74

You're right, premium Jun 2013 #80

About 99% agrement. cstanleytech Jun 2013 #126

"I am sad that people here are actually justifying this" Why are you surprised? cstanleytech Jun 2013 #117

Maybe I just expected something different premium Jun 2013 #120

Even on a more progressive board you will find differences of opinion. nt cstanleytech Jun 2013 #128

I expected different also. We are in the same boat it seems. nt Mojorabbit Jun 2013 #151

Why has this process gone on for more than a day then? It sounds like it violates a part of the... uponit7771 Jun 2013 #42

I guess that too many Americans knew nothing about the secret FISA court premium Jun 2013 #46

But are the results going to be used in a criminal prosecution? treestar Jun 2013 #82

It's about controlling the American population, premium Jun 2013 #92

How is the population controlled in any way? treestar Jun 2013 #135

Approximately nobody understands the point of your subject line jberryhill Jun 2013 #136

I'll issue a warrant for your arrest Aerows Jun 2013 #32

Were you around during the Bush years by any chance?? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #60

And because outrage was directed at Bush, we instituted reforms. randome Jun 2013 #65

Then you are incredibly naive Aerows Jun 2013 #70

And those "reforms" were soundly condemned from many quarters. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #75

And we are soundly Aerows Jun 2013 #87

Um, no, wrong again. We already HAD a policy whereby a warrant was needed from the sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #145

Which brings to mind, why should the attacks be on Bush or Obama treestar Jun 2013 #142

It is when it's nothing more than a rubber stamp for the govt. nt. premium Jun 2013 #12

The judicial involvment is nothing more than a rubber stamp for the govt. premium Jun 2013 #9

Greater transparency is called for, but that doesn't mean geek tragedy Jun 2013 #15

Every single FISA request submitted last year, ~1600 or so, was approved DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #19

Once again, premium Jun 2013 #30

The problem is that Congress hasn't politicized it enough. nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #34

The problem is that the Congress, both sides of the aisle, aren't listening premium Jun 2013 #36

How widespread is the outrage amongst the American people? nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #37

From the people I've had a chance to talk to in my town, premium Jun 2013 #39

Think back to the NDAA debate from last year. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #40

That may be, premium Jun 2013 #44

Here's the reality: geek tragedy Jun 2013 #45

I'm all for curbing the power of the EB, premium Jun 2013 #47

It takes constant lobbying and agitating. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #48

On principle, I agree with you there, premium Jun 2013 #49

Obama's not the one to check his own authority. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #51

But he could check his own authority, premium Jun 2013 #53

And then suppose two weeks later a terrorist bomb goes off in Grand Central Station. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #55

WTF does this have to do with innocent americans phone records? premium Jun 2013 #59

No, think the scenario through: geek tragedy Jun 2013 #62

Ok, so we trade our rights for security? premium Jun 2013 #64

I'm saying, for political and institutional reasons any scaling back geek tragedy Jun 2013 #68

Agreed, and, hopefully, this revelation is the beginning of it. nt. premium Jun 2013 #73

Indeed. Here's a sad paradox. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #76

The 'political fallout' geek tragedy refers to would be this. randome Jun 2013 #69

I agree that we need to, either change the Patriot Act, premium Jun 2013 #88

A sustained, focused effort could do the job. randome Jun 2013 #116

I Can't Fathom RobinA Jun 2013 #50

I'm in tears of frustration that so many Americans premium Jun 2013 #57

It stuns me Aerows Jun 2013 #77

Phone meta data disclosure pales in comparison to loss of healthcare and marriage rights... SunSeeker Jun 2013 #111

How do you know Aerows Jun 2013 #114

I base my position on reality, not conspiracy theories. nt SunSeeker Jun 2013 #119

Do you really think Aerows Jun 2013 #122

Do you really think it is worth losing marriage and abortion rights and being stuck in endless wars SunSeeker Jun 2013 #129

I refused to excuse this under Bush Aerows Jun 2013 #133

Phone meta data disclosure does not equal storm troopers in your bedroom.. SunSeeker Jun 2013 #138

Wait for it Aerows Jun 2013 #89

Like the classified documents leaked treestar Jun 2013 #143

Maybe some of the requests are not approved treestar Jun 2013 #85

How would we know? premium Jun 2013 #115

Presumably the American people thought the purpose was to catch terrorists treestar Jun 2013 #121

I agree that the original intent wasn't to spy on innocent Americans premium Jun 2013 #124

A warrant for all data of all users everyday is no better than no different than no morningfog Jun 2013 #31

So you're okay with your government issuing a secret warrant to spy on you and your loved ones sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #56

I would bet 25 years is a standard declassification date. randome Jun 2013 #2

And that needs to change Aerows Jun 2013 #6

Start a petition or something. I'll sign it. randome Jun 2013 #10

I would Aerows Jun 2013 #22

Your bet is correct. jeff47 Jun 2013 #94

I think it's a big fucking mess and nobody is doing their job. That, and the terrorists won. NYC_SKP Jun 2013 #5

This is what happens Aerows Jun 2013 #11

Like the 8 years of unlawfulness under the BFEE. Rex Jun 2013 #24

Yup. 25 years is remarkably bullshitty. What the Fuck? I mean really? NYC_SKP Jun 2013 #58

...a tangled web of them, I'd guess... KoKo Jun 2013 #139

Good point, KoKo. If the quality of their PowerPoint slides is any indication... NYC_SKP Jun 2013 #144

Fingers Crossed.... KoKo Jun 2013 #148

We can't even get Congress to pass a budget! randome Jun 2013 #18

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2013 #43

Seriously? Where did you find out that information? Rex Jun 2013 #8

It's on the top secret leaked "warrant" Aerows Jun 2013 #13

Holyshit. Rex Jun 2013 #20

The whole thing sends up red flags. Aerows Jun 2013 #23

25 years is a standard classification duration. jeff47 Jun 2013 #95

This should have been 5 Aerows Jun 2013 #99

Duration depends on the classification guide. jeff47 Jun 2013 #104

Says by default 10 years. Rex Jun 2013 #118

Ten years Aerows Jun 2013 #123

Should be 5 years imo or some only 1 year. Rex Jun 2013 #125

Don't want anyone to have to go to jail Aerows Jun 2013 #127

Not the select few, no, brilliant way to cover all tracks Rex Jun 2013 #130

Keep in mind what's classified. jeff47 Jun 2013 #147

Is AQ a "shell of its former self" as we've been told? cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #14

Yeah, but if you can put off Aerows Jun 2013 #17

Yup. n/t cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #27

Bump Aerows Jun 2013 #26

It's only the 4th amendment. No biggie. Prism Jun 2013 #35

I don't know how anyone Aerows Jun 2013 #38

It's a carefully planned game. Prism Jun 2013 #41

How can one get a warrant to search everyone? Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #52

You forgot the part Aerows Jun 2013 #54

true. nt Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #61

They aren't. They're getting a warrant to search the phone companies. jeff47 Jun 2013 #98

That's a new one Aerows Jun 2013 #103

Yep, they do. jeff47 Jun 2013 #105

Since you are so well-versed Aerows Jun 2013 #108

You already claimed to have a copy. You can't search for "government"? jeff47 Jun 2013 #146

Not claiming it's "better", just that it's 100% legal. tridim Jun 2013 #63

OMG Aerows Jun 2013 #66

No, I'm stating that the NSA is currently acting legally, while Bush acted illegally. tridim Jun 2013 #71

You state legally Aerows Jun 2013 #78

Bush's warrantless wiretapping was illegal OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #72

Oh, hey let's get everyone worked up over a total misconception. We use the warrant listed in the okaawhatever Jun 2013 #67

The warrant specifically states that national and local calls are covered. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #96

It most certainly does Aerows Jun 2013 #97

You need to ensure you don't do the same. jeff47 Jun 2013 #100

This isn't at that level by any means Aerows Jun 2013 #102

Depends on the classification guide. jeff47 Jun 2013 #107

It's a system treestar Jun 2013 #79

Uh, they are spying on everybody Aerows Jun 2013 #84

There are always spies treestar Jun 2013 #90

And some people Aerows Jun 2013 #93

There's no illegal behavior here treestar Jun 2013 #132

The hell there isn't Aerows Jun 2013 #134

The hamster wheels have been spinning with these new talking points all morning. villager Jun 2013 #81

What would your approach be? still_one Jun 2013 #83

Get an individual warrant Aerows Jun 2013 #101

Appreciate that you provided a solution. Perhaps when this debate takes place in Congress something still_one Jun 2013 #109

Well it was a BRILLIANT Aerows Jun 2013 #112

The data is gone after 3 months. jeff47 Jun 2013 #150

How do we get to truly debate this with so much politics in the mix? SleeplessinSoCal Jun 2013 #86

I'm glad you guys took my advice Aerows Jun 2013 #91

Keep trying Aerows Jun 2013 #106

So Per Your Reasoning, On the Road Jun 2013 #110

As a member of the Aerows Jun 2013 #113

*scratches head* Ok could you try and explain that again please. cstanleytech Jun 2013 #131

How do you have probable cause Aerows Jun 2013 #137

How to have probably cause for the collection of phone numbers cstanleytech Jun 2013 #140

I am Sure You Would Like to Know About it On the Road Jun 2013 #141

What's going on now with our Tech Revolution is way beyond what you are KoKo Jun 2013 #149

And they'll just renew it every year so that 25 years is always down the road. DCKit Jun 2013 #152