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DutchLiberal

(5,744 posts)

91. Whenever I get intimate with a woman, her actions indicate clearly whether or not she wants it.

Reply to obamanut2012 (Reply #85)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:03 PM

Feb 2012

I have never had sex with a woman where, at any point, she turned to me and said formally: "yes, you may have sex with me". I don't know how you do it, but I guess if you're with a man, you'll let him know whether or not he's on the right path, don't you? Or are you saying that unless a woman formally says "yes, you may have sex with me", she hasn't really consented? Even if she did do everything else (like voluntarily undressing, kissing him, leading him onto the bed, putting a condom on the man, etc.)?

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Do sexual assault victims have an obligation to resist/protest? [View all] Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 OP

If you're the one asking us, why are you shaking mad already? Quantess Feb 2012 #1

ya... lol, you are. i think it is real clear. seabeyond Feb 2012 #3

Is this a carryover conversation from another thread? Quantess Feb 2012 #8

i dont know. i dont know where it is coming from. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #12

Yes. Sorry. I'm a little flush with emotion -- in case you hadn't guessed. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #13

Sorry, I was just wanting a little background. Quantess Feb 2012 #16

Nothing for you to apologize for. Your inquiry was absolutely fair. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #23

But... Boombaby Feb 2012 #151

My guess would be the Kennedy thread. Maine-ah Feb 2012 #190

Read my post #86 in this thread before you jump to conclusions. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #88

It's a silent call-out of me, from the JFK-thread in GD... DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #86

Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #108

Either discuss or don't. But don't be childish like this. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #110

The subject is non-consenting sex. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #125

If a woman gives no indication of objection and/or goes along with the man, it's not assault. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #128

So there's no such thing as an abuse of power or trust? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #132

How is it "abuse of power" when the man in question doesn't threaten anybody? DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #140

Well if every other time he tells you do something, he expects it to be done Nikia Feb 2012 #174

From the guy that brought you complaints of false equivalency come false dichotomy & strawmen Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #176

no is enough roguevalley Feb 2012 #15

You don't even have to say "no" obamanut2012 Feb 2012 #18

agreed. I wonder why there isn't more optics on men than women. what the hell is wrong with so many roguevalley Feb 2012 #184

I'm stunned such a thing could be advanced in a progressive forum. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #4

I'm thinking I'm glad I didn't see that thread obamanut2012 Feb 2012 #19

The rapist in question here appears to be John F. Kennedy alcibiades_mystery Feb 2012 #28

omg obamanut2012 Feb 2012 #50

This forum is very progressive when it comes to sexual orientation rights, and racial issues.. left coaster Feb 2012 #20

patriarchy, sexism, misogynist is not party grown. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #22

Definitely cultural -- but cultures can change for the better Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #24

i am right there with you. we had an hour conversation with 16, 14 yr old sons, hubby seabeyond Feb 2012 #25

Nor is misandry and male-bashing apparantly. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #100

this would be the same bogus bullshit like duers claiming ALL sex is an assault? nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #103

Oh, so randomly throwing in the tired, worn-out "patriarchy", "misogyny" etc. is okay DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #115

you have "cited" shit, yet.... nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #117

I don't think pointing out a false equivalency is disallowing anyone from using "misandry" in a sent LanternWaste Feb 2012 #119

There's no false equivalency. Just the usual pattern on DU... DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #123

ya, right... like throwing out duers saying all sex is assault. no man can go around saying that seabeyond Feb 2012 #134

+10..n/t whathehell Feb 2012 #189

The fact is, you made something completely different out of what was originally said... DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #102

More like you deliberately left out abuses of power to coerce people who don't consent Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #105

She unbuttoned her shirt for him, when he was in no way forcing/threatening her DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #113

I think the answer is obvious justiceischeap Feb 2012 #2

yip Johonny Feb 2012 #27

Yeah, bite the guy's hand that he has a gun or knife in... joeybee12 Feb 2012 #5

Nope, then it becomes murder, forget the rape justiceischeap Feb 2012 #7

The OP specifically said no threatening was involved, so your sarcasm is completely misplaced. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #104

It's generally accepted that a power differential can be seen as coercion, but just because a power Brickbat Feb 2012 #6

What about other cases where it is legally rape? Because of power differential? moriah Feb 2012 #77

Well, you know, if they use the date rape drug LiberalLoner Feb 2012 #9

ture that. no ... no's. no struggle. total acceptance. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #14

read up on how predators "groom" their victims, then watch the movie fishtank firehorse Feb 2012 #10

Fishtank is about predators? BlueIris Feb 2012 #173

sexually inexperienced 17 yr old at a party of adults. late 20s, 30s. a couple beers and drunk seabeyond Feb 2012 #11

Maybe I'm too modern, too young, too naive and all sorts of wild ideas have been put into my head Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #17

just putting it out there. especially our very young girls, they are not equipped thru experience, seabeyond Feb 2012 #21

Not just girls. lapislzi Feb 2012 #29

very good point, and true... " Not just girls". right on. thank you. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #34

Our backward, stoggie puritan culture must empower women to say yes. WingDinger Feb 2012 #63

i tell my boys, for the girls and their protection, seabeyond Feb 2012 #68

Can you please run for Surgeon General? WingDinger Feb 2012 #69

lmao... no, i am too busy making green chili soup. seabeyond Feb 2012 #71

Prolly for the best. last time a woman talked truth, she was tarred and feathered. WingDinger Feb 2012 #74

true that. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #76

The only luck here was in the host's choice of a naive victim. lapislzi Feb 2012 #30

Mere sympathy seems too pale. I hope your post is only an expression of past thougths Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #35

Thank you, dear NU lapislzi Feb 2012 #78

wow. and yes. exactly. i wish... wish... people would work harder seabeyond Feb 2012 #36

That's absolutely heartbreaking and infuriating at the same time chrisa Feb 2012 #112

The way I look at it... MadrasT Feb 2012 #26

^ this. Thank-you. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #31

No means no. Beyond that, I think it's a case-by-case thing. MineralMan Feb 2012 #32

Ultimately a Jury decision One_Life_To_Give Feb 2012 #33

What if there's no jury except in the locker room? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #37

yes... what if.... nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #39

In that situation, he'd get read off and would no longer be a friend. MineralMan Feb 2012 #41

I'm guessing you have a higher caliber of friends. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #43

Maybe so. I was never a locker-room sort of guy. MineralMan Feb 2012 #46

my husband, too. i ask him about things i read on this board..... seabeyond Feb 2012 #47

Sorry to hit a button One_Life_To_Give Feb 2012 #122

Why do I get the idea here that some think that if the woman has sex RC Feb 2012 #38

ah, geeeez..... nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #40

1) yes, women are sexual creatures Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #42

No, that's not the idea here. That's an idea that some men MineralMan Feb 2012 #44

Sometime I like to be the demure sex kitten, sometimes he likes "ambush sex" Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #48

Sure. That's in an established relationship. MineralMan Feb 2012 #53

Because we often interpret and/or rationalize a thing... LanternWaste Feb 2012 #45

Why don't you tell us why you get that idea - there's nothing in the thread petronius Feb 2012 #58

wtf obamanut2012 Feb 2012 #80

You completely missed the point of this thread. chrisa Feb 2012 #116

Disagree. lapislzi Feb 2012 #194

behaviors and ambiguities lead ultimately to muddy waters, seabeyond Feb 2012 #198

A victim has the RIGHT to SURVIVE! If that victim needs to lay still and let the attacker do what Justice wanted Feb 2012 #49

. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #52

Thank you. This type of thing brings out strong feelings in me. Justice wanted Feb 2012 #56

I fought back hard. polly7 Feb 2012 #55

Instincts are strong. They are a gut reactions. If I had known my attacker I might have fought Justice wanted Feb 2012 #59

You did amazing. How many people do we hear who didn't survive polly7 Feb 2012 #66

Exactly-we are here and that's all that counts. Fists can be just as scary and dangerous guns and Justice wanted Feb 2012 #73

Thank you so much. polly7 Feb 2012 #107

Too much pain in the world. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #60

Aw, you're kind. I just wanted to share that fighting back is probably polly7 Feb 2012 #106

I'm so sorry. lapislzi Feb 2012 #195

Thank you for your words. I have been on the path to healing for 15 years. I am lucky to have a Justice wanted Feb 2012 #196

No is enough but this thread brought up something interesting and it needs repeating Broderick Feb 2012 #51

That's a very good point. Those are the society's 'no's. MineralMan Feb 2012 #54

Assholes and rapists Broderick Feb 2012 #62

If it is incest, statuatory rape or too out of it to consent, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WingDinger Feb 2012 #57

Only Yes means Yes Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #61

As in reply 17, Women/girls must be empowered to say yes. WingDinger Feb 2012 #64

Not my point but I'll offer the benefit of the doubt. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #67

Social pressure, power dynamics, are just those things boys should be taught to run from, WingDinger Feb 2012 #72

if men think about it, i bet more have been in this situation and yes.... seabeyond Feb 2012 #75

Oh, and was threatened with violence, if I didnt allow a dog to hump me. I chose fighting. WingDinger Feb 2012 #82

A woman has no DUTY to say "no" obamanut2012 Feb 2012 #83

As I said earlier, Joselyn Elders was just that person to begin that transition. WingDinger Feb 2012 #89

no. Bluerthanblue Feb 2012 #65

What if a boss implies a woman will be fired? Hatchling Feb 2012 #70

Absolutely not Dorian Gray Feb 2012 #79

Since you used my exact words from another thread to make this OP, let me clarify... DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #81

Yknow, I would be for a form that required a signature by the women, if it is a power dynamic situat WingDinger Feb 2012 #84

But shouldn't it be notarized? lumberjack_jeff Feb 2012 #181

I was told by my landlady, that if I didnt impregnate her, I should move. WingDinger Feb 2012 #183

How is it not assualt if she didn't say "yes" obamanut2012 Feb 2012 #85

Whenever I get intimate with a woman, her actions indicate clearly whether or not she wants it. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #91

"yes, you may have sex with me".. you may have sex with me? really? lol. geez. how about, ya.. seabeyond Feb 2012 #93

Actually, that was an exaggeration of what obamanut was saying, so you're making fun of her now. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #97

wrong again. hubby and i all the time are "yessing" each other back and forth. never seabeyond Feb 2012 #99

Guess I should be behind bars One_Life_To_Give Feb 2012 #166

except when i was talking about yes... it was not really about this. seabeyond Feb 2012 #170

"there ARE some people on DU". ONE. show me ONE person. ONE link. and you prove your point seabeyond Feb 2012 #87

There should be a strawman callout of DUers report rule. WingDinger Feb 2012 #90

I don't remember all usernames, but it has been suggested. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #92

ONE... you are making a damn stupid claim as SOME on du. ONE. or it didnt happen seabeyond Feb 2012 #94

now you edit your post to run run run, shift, divert. ONE person that has claimed ALL sex seabeyond Feb 2012 #96

I often edit posts for further clarification. It's not a crime. Take a chill pill. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #98

ONE of my post that comes even kinda close to saying ALL sex is an assault. ONE seabeyond Feb 2012 #101

Plenty! DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #109

lmFao. so every time i have had sex or will have sex, i think i am being raped. and you know this seabeyond Feb 2012 #111

Again, not what I said. This is what I meant when I was talking about putting words in mens' mouths. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #118

"EVERY form of sex is a kind of "assault""... where am i putting words in "mens mouth" seabeyond Feb 2012 #121

I was thinking that too. Lunacee2012 Feb 2012 #135

the "feminist" (now) are too clever to say it, the poster just know that is really what they are seabeyond Feb 2012 #138

Well at least now we're clever Lunacee2012 Feb 2012 #159

TOO clever, not just any old clever. lol. true that. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #165

Counter points chrisa Feb 2012 #120

Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #126

Do you have trouble understanding women in general or just assault victims and sneaky feminists? EFerrari Feb 2012 #127

No need to steep to vile character assassinations. Give me an argument and I'll discuss. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #130

I asked you a question. And have already given you an answer to yours. EFerrari Feb 2012 #131

No, you haven't. I have yet to see one argument from you. If name-calling is all you got.. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #143

Excuse me, the integrity of women's bodies is not debatable. EFerrari Feb 2012 #167

so none of the FEMINIST (now) have said, but you KNOW what they are really saying..... fuck. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #137

And apparently I'm one of those sex-hating all-sex-is-assault subliminal message feminists. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #139

worse... post 141. does he do this with all women, and what does that do for them in having a say seabeyond Feb 2012 #146

Another lie from you. I specifically stated you were *not* one of them. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #147

Maybe I missed that post. If so, then fair is fair. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #158

"speak in code language"" imply and suggest""read between the lines" if this is how you decipher if seabeyond Feb 2012 #141

Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #148

"Feminazis"?!?! Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #152

Are you denying there are misandrist extremist feminists who do nothing but bash men? DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #161

why would i trust your ability to "decode" with any woman when you clearly show your inability on seabeyond Feb 2012 #153

what is a feminazi? Broderick Feb 2012 #156

A woman who thinks feminism is about bashing men every opportunity they get. DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #162

"Feminazi?" chrisa Feb 2012 #164

+1 Little Star Feb 2012 #199

By Jove! I think you've diagnosed the issue exactly. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #149

Tricky, tricky girls. Devious things we are. seabeyond Feb 2012 #154

And if a man doesn't know, I imagine the most prudent thing to do LanternWaste Feb 2012 #145

For clarification, picture this then: DutchLiberal Feb 2012 #155

Dude, you are the first alert I have sent. You seem to have a huge chip on your patriarchal shoulder WingDinger Feb 2012 #163

That is a mischaracterization of the originating disagreement. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #168

I don't pretend to know it assault, but it is bad judgement. LanternWaste Feb 2012 #175

First, why are you having sex with a girl and second, your mind reading will not EFerrari Feb 2012 #177

Perhaps the creepiest story ever posted on DU alcibiades_mystery Feb 2012 #186

If a man walks around with the impression that women want to have sex with him, by default, EFerrari Feb 2012 #124

I was an adult when I was raped. LeftyMom Feb 2012 #157

I went to a workshop... FreeJoe Feb 2012 #95

Sometimes that'll get a person killed. DevonRex Feb 2012 #114

A very close friend of mine in college libodem Feb 2012 #136

OMG. DevonRex Feb 2012 #142

I know libodem Feb 2012 #169

Holding a position of authority in the office where I work... LanternWaste Feb 2012 #129

Imagine if the current President did the same thing. undeterred Feb 2012 #133

Any of the other 42 as well. Despite oppression such as a lack of suffrage Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #144

Was Sally Hemmings really in a position to consent? dawg Feb 2012 #160

My dawg! Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #171

Jefferson is a bad example in this case. Withywindle Feb 2012 #172

Have to agree with you there. Lunacee2012 Feb 2012 #150

That doesn't make any sense. Rex Feb 2012 #178

post 11, 30, 70, and 157 may give you some idea of what is being discussed seabeyond Feb 2012 #179

I once thought there were no dumb questions. I've re-evaluated that.... LanternWaste Feb 2012 #180

This reminds me of the bombshell my therapist layed on me many years ago tavalon Feb 2012 #192

+1. hear ya. so many subtles that we dont even recognize. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #193

It WAS the reason I decided to fire that "family" fairly soon thereafter tavalon Feb 2012 #197

Consent is a simple topic. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2012 #182

"I know because you didn't say anything" meets no definition of consent. EFerrari Feb 2012 #187

If its 'Uncle' Brad, then HELLS YEAH, he is guilty of a crime. renie408 Feb 2012 #185

Some context would be nice here. LadyHawkAZ Feb 2012 #188

There are so many forms of rape and the person who was raped usually knows they were raped tavalon Feb 2012 #191