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Reader Rabbit

(2,624 posts)
32. " The simplest, most straightforward way" = false equivalence
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 02:25 PM
Mar 2013

Education and learning are neither simple, nor straightforward. I suspect your experience and training as an engineer prevents you from understanding that. There are few professions so diametrically opposed as teaching K-12 and engineering!

Here's the thing:

We are not talking about making widgets; we are talking about getting thinking, feeling, sentient beings to learn. It's not about the product teachers provide, it's about the connections they make with their students.

Case Study
My brother and I are only 18 months apart, so we often had the same teachers as we progressed through school. Almost without exception, the teachers who had the greatest impact on my learning were not the ones who had the greatest impact on his, and vice versa. In fact, even the only teacher we had the same opinion of—we both hated her guts—did not elicit the same academic performance from us. Both our emotional responses were the same—"I'll show you, you heinous bitch!"—but our behavior responses were exactly the opposite. My brother shut down and did the bare minimum necessary to keep himself out of trouble with our parents. I, on the other hand, pulled out all the academic stops and excelled in her class, so that I could spit in her eye (figuratively speaking, of course).

So even in a scenario in which two siblings (nature) have roughly the same home life (nurture), teachers will get vastly different results.

Students are human. Teachers are human. To evaluate either with an assessment that dissects and denies their humanity is not valid.

Epilogue: My brother is now an engineer, while I am a middle school teacher.

Just imagine the lessons kids learn from this policy. madfloridian Mar 2013 #1
The allure and narrowness of making a final judgement on a single measure reteachinwi Mar 2013 #2
Great quote. madfloridian Mar 2013 #5
this is how I've had to approach my son's education liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #8
I have a third grader d_r Mar 2013 #3
I agree 100% madfloridian Mar 2013 #4
Trust me Ohio has had lots of dumb testing adventures dsc Mar 2013 #6
Here's a story... ReRe Mar 2013 #7
+1 reteachinwi Mar 2013 #52
These end of year tests should not be viewed as... Blanks Mar 2013 #9
Ah, one test to determine your career. theaocp Mar 2013 #10
Do you think that's unique among educators? Blanks Mar 2013 #11
Teachers are already evaluated several times a year. The reformers must love your words. madfloridian Mar 2013 #14
That's a false accusation. Teachers ARE evaluated. Four times a year in my district. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #30
Who said 'teachers aren't evaluated'? Blanks Mar 2013 #61
"I don't of any profession where we just take their word for how good they are. " proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #62
You feel that those two completely different statements are equal? Blanks Mar 2013 #63
I don't see them as completely different statements. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #66
Even with your typo? Blanks Mar 2013 #68
That was YOUR typo. I copied and pasted from your post. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #73
I stand corrected. Have a nice day. eom Blanks Mar 2013 #74
" The simplest, most straightforward way" = false equivalence Reader Rabbit Mar 2013 #32
I believe students should emerge from each grade... Blanks Mar 2013 #35
Again, spoken like an engineer. Reader Rabbit Mar 2013 #39
Amen. madfloridian Mar 2013 #40
If I go to an oncologist and he/she... Blanks Mar 2013 #43
You do realize that... Reader Rabbit Mar 2013 #49
I don't want it to be the teachers fault. Blanks Mar 2013 #60
When you are developing a new widget reteachinwi Mar 2013 #53
We should have a system that can objectively demonstrate... Blanks Mar 2013 #59
That is not my experience. reteachinwi Mar 2013 #54
There are portfolios for severely disabled children. eom Blanks Mar 2013 #64
And there are many mildly disabled children who don't do well on these tests. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #65
I'm sure there are. Blanks Mar 2013 #67
No there are no such provisions. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #69
The rules vary from state to state... Blanks Mar 2013 #70
No they don't vary. It's a FEDERAL law. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #71
My attorney/wife practices disability law... Blanks Mar 2013 #72
Well done. nt LWolf Mar 2013 #38
That illogic, in a nutshell, is why public education is on the ropes. LWolf Mar 2013 #12
How would you recommend evaluating educators? Blanks Mar 2013 #13
Public education is sinking because it is being defunded and dismantled. madfloridian Mar 2013 #15
I'm sure that's a factor in some places. Blanks Mar 2013 #16
See my post above to you. Yes, parents DO have responsibility for their children learning. madfloridian Mar 2013 #17
Fair enough. I can agree to disagree with you. Blanks Mar 2013 #18
Parents had their kids for years before they went to school. madfloridian Mar 2013 #19
I disagree about the training for tests comment. Blanks Mar 2013 #20
You are twisting my words around. madfloridian Mar 2013 #21
How is what I said different from what you meant? Blanks Mar 2013 #22
You said, I quote: madfloridian Mar 2013 #24
Perhaps if you didn't use 'that is just nonsense'... Blanks Mar 2013 #26
Hey, post a poll. I am backing off. madfloridian Mar 2013 #27
What do you want it to ask? Blanks Mar 2013 #28
Piaget reteachinwi Mar 2013 #55
My wife and I have discussed me teaching. Blanks Mar 2013 #58
Start with this: LWolf Mar 2013 #29
It's perfectly reasonable to evaluate someone's results. Blanks Mar 2013 #34
It doesn't really matter how many LWolf Mar 2013 #37
Many of the students I taught were in 10th grade. reteachinwi Mar 2013 #56
That makes sense to me. Blanks Mar 2013 #57
we aren't sinking in comparison to other countries. i've posted multiple times on the problems HiPointDem Mar 2013 #44
Could you provide a link? eom Blanks Mar 2013 #45
I'm not going to go and look for a link for each one of those claims again; if you're interested HiPointDem Mar 2013 #47
I'm not following your line of reasoning here. surrealAmerican Mar 2013 #23
Sort of. Blanks Mar 2013 #25
Because the only reason children fail is because they have bad teachers? proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #31
The way we learn that a child is failing... Blanks Mar 2013 #36
Some education on the history of standardized tests might be indicated. LWolf Mar 2013 #41
+1 proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #42
What is parent SES? eom Blanks Mar 2013 #46
socio-economic status. It's the best predictor of student performance out there. Not only in HiPointDem Mar 2013 #48
socio-economic status LWolf Mar 2013 #50
I agree...If no one showed up there would be NO one to test! Auntie Bush Mar 2013 #33
The Old Computer Adage: "No Doc, No Problem!" nt TheBlackAdder Mar 2013 #51
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