Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
227. It's the position of those
Mon Mar 4, 2013, 12:18 PM
Mar 2013

"That's an ideological, not a mathematical, position. And one that I would never rally behind. I don't think it has any basis in "progressive" politics whatsoever."

...who don't want anymore of their income going to strengthen Social Security. Progressives actually fighting to do so advocate lifting the cap.

Bernie Sanders Introduces Bill To Lift The Payroll Tax Cap, Ensuring Full Social Security Funding For Nearly 75 Years

By Zaid Jilani

Last week, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) was a featured speaker at the United Steel Workers 2011 conference in Las Vegas.

Sanders focused much of his speech on the Social Security system, blasting suggestions by Democrats and Republicans alike that, for example, we should adjust the cost of living adjustment to cut Social Security payments to working class Americans or raise the retirement age. “When [Social Security] was developed, 50 percent of seniors lived in poverty. Today, poverty among seniors is too high, but that number is ten percent. Social Security has done exactly what it was designed to do!” he thundered, defending the program. Watch it:

<...>
Today, Sanders announced that he will introduce legislation that would strengthen Social Security without cutting benefits to any of its beneficiaries. Sanders’ legislation would eliminate the income cap that currently exists in the payroll tax that does not tax income above $106,800:

To keep Social Security strong for another 75 years, Sanders’ legislation would apply the same payroll tax already paid by more than nine out of 10 Americans to those with incomes over $250,000 a year. <...> Under Sanders’ legislation, Social Security benefits would be untouched. The system would be fully funded by making the wealthiest Americans pay the same payroll tax already assessed on those with incomes up to $106,800 a year.

Sanders points out that President Obama himself endorsed this idea on the campaign trail in 2008. “What we need to do is to raise the cap on the payroll tax so that wealthy individuals are paying a little bit more into the system. Right now, somebody like Warren Buffet pays a fraction of 1 percent of his income in payroll tax, whereas the majority…pays payroll tax on 100 percent of their income. I’ve said that was not fair,” said Obama during the campaign.

- more -

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/08/25/304387/bernie-sanders-introduces-bill-to-lift-the-payroll-tax-cap-ensuring-full-social-security-funding-for-nearly-75-years/


We need a new Democratic Party [View all] MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 OP
Can't argue with any of that. K&R Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #1
"incredibly low rates, far lower than many in the middle class" is arguable bhikkhu Mar 2013 #15
How's about you post what rates the 1% ACTUALLY pay... 99Forever Mar 2013 #23
That's the point DollarBillHines Mar 2013 #52
I think we are mostly in agreement. 99Forever Mar 2013 #59
I was speaking of property, gas, sales taxes, etc. DollarBillHines Mar 2013 #95
Here's the background on the source for that graphic: bhikkhu Mar 2013 #64
Yep, righties complain about the high "rates" of taxes on corporations too... cascadiance Mar 2013 #113
I don't think that your figures include capital gains MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #29
Its supposed to include capital gains, federal and state, sales tax, property taxes, etc bhikkhu Mar 2013 #67
Capitals gains is the central point, and the bulk of the poolside billionaires' income. GoneFishin Mar 2013 #122
Capital gains is a much different rate than income tax, this is alsp the reason Warren Buffett Thinkingabout Mar 2013 #123
This assumes the wealthy earn their income through salaries Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #31
The top one percent have just experienced the loss of the Bush tax cuts for themselves fasttense Mar 2013 #43
Yes, it includes state and federal, property taxes, sales tax, etc bhikkhu Mar 2013 #65
Yes, you're right. But it does note that certain MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #79
Your figures are only sulphurdunn Mar 2013 #80
Talk about cherry-picking - why not post some of the OTHER info bread_and_roses Mar 2013 #133
Screw the Wealthy.. Capt13 Mar 2013 #168
Yes, that's how some of us understand the issue. truedelphi Mar 2013 #174
That says based on "income". I don't think capital gains is considered income cui bono Mar 2013 #192
Capital gains are considered "unearned income" Art_from_Ark Mar 2013 #250
Sorry, it's the system that needs changing more than anything else cali Mar 2013 #2
Agreed. AndyA Mar 2013 #7
^ THIS ^ octoberlib Mar 2013 #11
+1 uponit7771 Mar 2013 #12
Catch-22. The people who have the power to change the system are part of the system. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2013 #13
That is absolutely true. MineralMan Mar 2013 #18
Ya but they changed some things over night to make them crappier. glinda Mar 2013 #50
exactly- how long did it take for the scoundrels to pass the (un)patriot act? green for victory Mar 2013 #130
The people who have the power to change the system CONTROL the system CanonRay Mar 2013 #46
French Revolution says 'non.' tblue Mar 2013 #92
That is the problem that needs attention asap. glinda Mar 2013 #187
When Our People Can't Take Anymore AndyTiedye Mar 2013 #223
Good point, in my opinion. nt ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #101
We need to fix the voting system first. Wont be able to get campaign finance laws rhett o rick Mar 2013 #125
We need far more change than just how campaigns are paid for. n/t Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #159
Yep, this too, and to curtail lobbying. woo me with science Mar 2013 #181
Ratfuckers generally do advocate for a "new" Democratic party. But that's not what you are, right KittyWampus Mar 2013 #3
Well that is pretty hateful. Warren Stupidity Mar 2013 #178
wtf? Marrah_G Mar 2013 #188
Way to make his point, Kitty. Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #215
That was nasty. Le Taz Hot Mar 2013 #217
Your reply makes his point. That is a hateful reply aimed at stifling discussion. rhett o rick Mar 2013 #224
How was the hangover this morning? UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #248
If Manny is a ratfucker... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2013 #264
That's pretty over the top. el_bryanto Oct 2013 #265
Personally, I think you're welcome to do that. MineralMan Mar 2013 #4
Maybe if you advertise on Craig's list and start a new website graham4anything Mar 2013 #5
We certainly need to restate clearly what the Democratic Party stands for. canoeist52 Mar 2013 #6
Wait ProSense Mar 2013 #8
Wait Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2013 #16
Hey, ProSense Mar 2013 #19
He's also making the point tha Obama is offering the Republicans what they want. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2013 #26
Well, ProSense Mar 2013 #28
The problem 'centrists' face right now is that one Party is offering actual compromise (DNC) Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #198
raising taxes on the rich did NOT win hfojvt Mar 2013 #32
There you go again ProSense Mar 2013 #37
they are not my numbers hfojvt Mar 2013 #44
"And Krugman is a tool" ProSense Mar 2013 #45
Nice try, but some of us are paying attention brentspeak Mar 2013 #70
Thanks for ProSense Mar 2013 #75
What, you mean the numbers you keep spamming? brentspeak Mar 2013 #84
LOL! ProSense Mar 2013 #93
Its one way of looking at the numbers bhikkhu Mar 2013 #83
maybe because the status quo was so evil hfojvt Mar 2013 #96
What utter nonsense. ProSense Mar 2013 #99
wrong again hfojvt Mar 2013 #103
More nonsense. ProSense Mar 2013 #105
uh huh hfojvt Mar 2013 #111
Beyond silly ProSense Mar 2013 #114
I know damned well that "across the board tax cuts" favor the rich hfojvt Mar 2013 #118
I know ProSense Mar 2013 #119
He raised taxes on the rich bhikkhu Mar 2013 #100
no, sorry, that is just a movement of goalposts hfojvt Mar 2013 #106
You're the one moving goalposts. ProSense Mar 2013 #107
uhm hfojvt Mar 2013 #115
Wow, ProSense Mar 2013 #117
no, I am facing facts hfojvt Mar 2013 #120
Hey, ProSense Mar 2013 #121
I'm getting a sense of deja vu hfojvt Mar 2013 #129
Exactly. Capital gains should be taxed higher than earned income. nt SunSeeker Mar 2013 #146
Sign me up. tblue Mar 2013 #9
We certainly have to do something... TheProgressive Mar 2013 #10
Maybe a mass movement of some kind... PETRUS Mar 2013 #14
If enough people demand it with their vote, it will come along. nt Poll_Blind Mar 2013 #17
Yeah, ProSense Mar 2013 #22
One that stands for good government, that won't trade long-term stability for today's talking points bhikkhu Mar 2013 #20
What'sa Matter Manny, GOP Implosion Getting You Down? U Figure The Dems Need One of Their Own Too? Skraxx Mar 2013 #21
The Democratic politicians are destroying the party leftstreet Mar 2013 #34
Last I Checked, Despite The Whining In The Peanut Gallery Skraxx Mar 2013 #234
If the Left doesn't make demands tblue Mar 2013 #91
Wow! Le Taz Hot Mar 2013 #218
LOL!! Credible?? LOL! DU Standards Of "Credible" Must Be Lacking Skraxx Mar 2013 #220
Enjoy your stay. Le Taz Hot Mar 2013 #222
Are Democrats Who *GASP* Defend The Democratic Party Skraxx Mar 2013 #233
Yes they are very welcome here. That is exactly what the OP is doing, defending sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #236
Is That What The OP Is Doing? Is That What Calling For A New Party Is? Skraxx Mar 2013 #237
Yes, that is what the OP is doing. Why are YOU a Democrat? sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #238
Now You're Conducting Your Purity Test On Me? Skraxx Mar 2013 #239
I believe it was you who conducted the purity test on the OP. Since you set yourself sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #241
Such a thing will have to start with a third party, you know. MineralMan Mar 2013 #24
Bring in the Green Party Left Turn Only Mar 2013 #25
The Greens would NEVER go along Le Taz Hot Mar 2013 #221
win-win situation Left Turn Only Mar 2013 #254
And this is one of the MANY reasons they will never join the Democrats: Le Taz Hot Mar 2013 #255
Change from within Left Turn Only Mar 2013 #256
I think we should focus on 2016. ProSense Mar 2013 #27
Thomas Jefferson on political parties. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2013 #30
^^ G_j Mar 2013 #33
Wise man. 840high Mar 2013 #36
TJ had such wisdom! Plucketeer Mar 2013 #85
So if Jefferson was alive to day ... we can probably assume that ... JoePhilly Mar 2013 #160
Only if DU membership is measured in party loyalty. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2013 #161
DURec leftstreet Mar 2013 #35
bullshit hfojvt Mar 2013 #38
He shoots! He scores! Bake Mar 2013 #62
The Bobby Kennedy/FDR/Harry S. Truman Democratic Party ! King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #185
1972, actually Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2013 #186
My Bad, sorry. I just associate them both with Nixon. King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #191
it was more than that though hfojvt Mar 2013 #189
Those losses in the 1980s were very educational. MineralMan Mar 2013 #212
Voters did not "reject progressive candidates"--voters rejected candidates who ran lousy campaigns Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2013 #225
There was a lot of talk about the Democratic Party throwing elections back then. Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #261
except that is the wrong lesson hfojvt Mar 2013 #229
yes we do d_b Mar 2013 #39
First we need to destroy the Republican party. Motown_Johnny Mar 2013 #40
A-FUCKING-MEN MotherPetrie Mar 2013 #41
The system may be broken Blue4Texas Mar 2013 #42
We need a new Rethug party, too, don't ya think? The GOP we have now is full of criminals. judesedit Mar 2013 #47
K&R forestpath Mar 2013 #48
The current Democratic party wants to raise taxes on the wealthy gravity Mar 2013 #49
Uh, not quite. Maybe you missed the letter that many in the progressive caucus won't sign. Dawgs Mar 2013 #63
We don't need to build a NEW Democratic Party. bvar22 Mar 2013 #51
It hurts my heart chervilant Mar 2013 #204
Are You Sure? gussmith Mar 2013 #53
Was that at RW central? Or when did their taxes go up to 90% nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #60
Look Further down on DU front Page gussmith Mar 2013 #108
Really...somebody made a mistake nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #124
Modern history doesn't start in 1988 or 2003. hay rick Mar 2013 #82
Yup, taxed the most since their last tax cut which was one whole Progressive dog Mar 2013 #90
History of top rates. limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #132
the President 'demanded' austerity? don't think so. spanone Mar 2013 #54
Du rec. Nt xchrom Mar 2013 #55
America never started polynomial Mar 2013 #56
You had to see it coming nineteen50 Mar 2013 #57
Close but no cigar... nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #58
yes -nt Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #73
Why new DEMOCRATIC party, and not just party? Dawgs Mar 2013 #61
Because that would probably be a TOS violation. mathematic Mar 2013 #131
It's our party. The 99% believe in traditional Democratic values. MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #141
+1 - nt dreamnightwind Mar 2013 #246
I love my Democrats Herlong Mar 2013 #66
Of course adieu Mar 2013 #68
We Need A Paradigm Shift In The Debate colsohlibgal Mar 2013 #69
The only time the Republicans worry about the deficit octoberlib Mar 2013 #87
Republican strategy is to spend fast and furious when they are in power, then GoneFishin Mar 2013 #157
Almost all our institutions are a complete wreck. I agree that there has to be some beachhead. TheKentuckian Mar 2013 #71
That's why we need a movement. limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #136
Occupy the Democratic Party? dreamnightwind Mar 2013 #247
At this point I recommend all of the above. limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #249
No shit. jsr Mar 2013 #72
The country needs new government Loge23 Mar 2013 #74
Here's a poll: ProSense Mar 2013 #76
We need the Democratic Party of forty or fifty years ago back duffyduff Mar 2013 #77
Back then we had strong unions and their members were the majority of Cleita Mar 2013 #98
Harry Truman,.... is that you? bvar22 Mar 2013 #232
What can we do other then go to the streets. I'm already surprised that the people southernyankeebelle Mar 2013 #78
the old one stopped representing our interests some time ago.... mike_c Mar 2013 #81
Fixing by tweaks is a long, difficult process, but it's all we have. Jim Lane Mar 2013 #86
We do need a new Democratic Party. valiberal26 Mar 2013 #88
I agree theKed Mar 2013 #89
I wish we'd make our tent a little smaller and send the conservadems back to the Republican Party Cleita Mar 2013 #94
A long awaited infrastucture program that is LONG overdue.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #97
NO. We need a new Republican party, one jazzimov Mar 2013 #102
Now it is the Third Way centrists who maintain that both Parties are equally at fault Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #202
Then you go build the New Democratic Party. Drunken Irishman Mar 2013 #104
You're totally right - Talk is easy; walking the walk is not; get off your asses pattiepcomedy Mar 2013 #112
MannyGoidstein - "We expect Republicans to do this stuff." - Free Pass Again TomCADem Mar 2013 #143
Should Lincoln have fired his losing generals? MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #171
"Manny and posts that attack the President will always get hundreds of recs." Number23 Mar 2013 #183
I don't give Republicans a pass--but we all know THEIR faults Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2013 #243
+2,882,955 (the number of votes Nader took in 2000) graham4anything Mar 2013 #152
I would be great if Dems stopped being moderate Republicans and Republicans I Cant Dance Mar 2013 #109
that's been obvious for years, at least since Clinton changed it stupidicus Mar 2013 #110
We need reform felix_numinous Mar 2013 #116
Fox News called. gulliver Mar 2013 #126
We need the old Democratic Party back. Kick out the damn conservatives. nm rhett o rick Mar 2013 #127
Actually Social security iandhr Mar 2013 #128
That's based on faked projections MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #134
Do you have a link showing that both the CBO and the SSA is using ~8% UE rate I Cant Dance Mar 2013 #144
For example MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #164
Nobody can predict the future, so that argument goes in circles. You oppose lifting the SS cap. Romulox Mar 2013 #219
It's the position of those ProSense Mar 2013 #227
I couldn't agree with you (or Senator Sanders) more. The arguments against are insane. nt Romulox Mar 2013 #242
You are right. The Democratic Party is lost. limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #135
The DC DEMs have stopped even paying lip service to the Party Plank. blkmusclmachine Mar 2013 #169
So, what's stopping you?...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #137
I have a theory ... JoePhilly Mar 2013 #145
+22,198 and +4 (the number coincidentally that Nader got in New Hampshire) graham4anything Mar 2013 #153
I hear you, and I agree. I feel exactly the same about all the political parties here BelgianMadCow Mar 2013 #138
The current party would be viable if they prosecuted some war criminals just1voice Mar 2013 #139
yes, exactly, Manny RILib Mar 2013 #140
This is what I have been thinking Samantha Mar 2013 #142
Less message Board Snark - More Winning Elections alcibiades_mystery Mar 2013 #147
Thanks, Manny for Proposing this....we know how this goes.... KoKo Mar 2013 #148
This is what happens when the vast majority of the money and power is hoarded by just a few. w4rma Mar 2013 #149
I doubt voting alone will be enough limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #150
Yea mtasselin Mar 2013 #151
K&R. So true--and thanks for saying out loud! n/t Mr_Jefferson_24 Mar 2013 #154
I agree! I am so over Obama and most Democrats. emsimon33 Mar 2013 #155
Mmm, it's what's for dinner. blkmusclmachine Mar 2013 #170
Yes, many of us can remember when seniors were forced to eat dog food emsimon33 Mar 2013 #259
The party needs to go back to what it once was. MrSlayer Mar 2013 #156
you will get alot of recs from the tp trollers. DCBob Mar 2013 #158
Well, I think President Obama is a good start to build from - a template. Zax2me Mar 2013 #162
+10! (nt) reACTIONary Mar 2013 #165
Sure, not RILib Mar 2013 #195
I'm there. k and r Smarmie Doofus Mar 2013 #163
K&R blkmusclmachine Mar 2013 #166
Manny....we need SOMETHING NEW! What it will be KoKo Mar 2013 #167
Yes, the need for serious change is obvious now. woo me with science Mar 2013 #172
We need a Party that represents the people Apophis Mar 2013 #173
Third Party Manny strikes again... dionysus Mar 2013 #175
I notice 10 hours after this thread started, you just added the following- graham4anything Mar 2013 #176
In what way is it inconsistent with what I posted at noon? MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #177
I love your posts. They are highly entertaining. Love conversing with you. graham4anything Mar 2013 #179
"We need to rebuild our party from the ground up." MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #180
"It's the trespassers who need to vacate." woo me with science Mar 2013 #182
This line of thinking is Bullcrap copperearth Mar 2013 #184
Stick a fork in it, she's DONE! blkmusclmachine Mar 2013 #190
We are all with you, Manny Goldstein. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #193
You can't ''unrotten'' the apple, Manny. DeSwiss Mar 2013 #194
Me too... GTurck Mar 2013 #196
What we need is to get rid of the capitalism - TBF Mar 2013 #197
Unfortunately, this IS the New Democratic Party. Fuddnik Mar 2013 #199
Do you count President Obama among the "trespassers"? (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #200
A well organized third progressive/liberal party is the only way INdemo Mar 2013 #201
...by splitting the Center-Left vote? brooklynite Mar 2013 #205
Why not? It's getting hijacked anyway. Fuddnik Mar 2013 #206
You can't explain these things to ideologues... Comrade_McKenzie Mar 2013 #213
We currently have two parties jockeying to split the center-right vote. hay rick Mar 2013 #245
That's exactly what we need ProSense Mar 2013 #207
the republican party WILL iamthebandfanman Mar 2013 #208
Yeah, ProSense Mar 2013 #209
You're wasting your breath here sir. n/t Hotler Mar 2013 #203
Our expensive healthcare tied to employers abelenkpe Mar 2013 #210
I'm an Obama loyalist and I'm proud of that. Comrade_McKenzie Mar 2013 #211
+1 JustAnotherGen Mar 2013 #226
What is an Obama loyalist? rhett o rick Mar 2013 #235
It's really weird to read that isn't it? Puzzledtraveller Mar 2013 #258
Issues are too complicated for someone whose first instinct is to compromise to solve Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2013 #244
No kidding. Safetykitten Mar 2013 #214
If you aren't already, I hope you become a national delegate, Manny Wednesdays Mar 2013 #216
K & R, to be liberal is to want what our forefathers fully intended, to ensure the survival mother earth Mar 2013 #228
I agree with John2 Mar 2013 #230
@MannyGoldstein Raggaemon Mar 2013 #231
kick nt. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #240
Well said, very well said Sekhmets Daughter Mar 2013 #251
as much as I hate to imitate the GOP DonCoquixote Mar 2013 #252
kick woo me with science Mar 2013 #253
A liberal one, not a progressive one Puzzledtraveller Mar 2013 #257
Bravo! cntrfthrs Mar 2013 #260
Among all the rec's Puzzledtraveller Mar 2013 #262
Excellent post, thanks. MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #263
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»We need a new Democratic ...»Reply #227