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geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
142. I dare say had you been a cop within range of his
Fri Feb 15, 2013, 02:18 PM
Feb 2013

.50 caliber rifle (capable of piercing body armor and car engine blocks) you would not consider him to be harmless and not a threat to anyone but himself.

Saddam Hussein surrendered. Dorner did not.

What "due process" does not mean: [View all] geek tragedy Feb 2013 OP
Yeah, a voice of sanity. nobodyspecial Feb 2013 #1
A large portion of DU thinks that it's never okay for cops to kill someone. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #2
Really? I'm sure you can back that claim up, right? Please proceed. Electric Monk Feb 2013 #19
Can you offer even ONE link saying that, much less enough to prove a 'large portion'? Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #47
You missed all the hysterical claims that this was a lynching, murder, vigilantism, geek tragedy Feb 2013 #50
So you've got nothing? EOTE Feb 2013 #52
If it's not okay for the police to use potentially lethal force against geek tragedy Feb 2013 #65
So again, you've got utterly nothing. EOTE Feb 2013 #67
Police are allowed to use tear gas. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #68
They had standard tear gas available. EOTE Feb 2013 #70
They used standard tear gas, and it didn't work geek tragedy Feb 2013 #72
And HOW did they know it didn't work? EOTE Feb 2013 #74
Are you seriously asking how they didn't know that the standard tear gas didn't geek tragedy Feb 2013 #76
It's to get the suspect out of hiding. EOTE Feb 2013 #80
So, he didn't emerge after the standard tear gas. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #83
Again, they were not in danger at the time. EOTE Feb 2013 #87
Due process does not require them to sit there forever waiting for the guy. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #89
Forever, 2 days, what's the difference? EOTE Feb 2013 #97
Legally, no difference between 2 days and 2 hours. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #98
The PD can not decide to kill based upon what they unilaterally determine is in the best interest of EOTE Feb 2013 #100
When a suspect is armed, dangerous, has killed, kidnapped, and carjacked and has refused to geek tragedy Feb 2013 #104
You know very little of the law. EOTE Feb 2013 #107
It applies from the beginning treestar Feb 2013 #114
You are terribly confused. EOTE Feb 2013 #115
If a person is a THREAT they get treated like a threat. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #137
A man holed up in a cabin surrounded by a small army is not a threat. EOTE Feb 2013 #141
Actually, yes cops do get to unilaterally determine who is a threat geek tragedy Feb 2013 #146
There's that accountability thing. EOTE Feb 2013 #151
Sure, if they behaved illegally they can face sanction. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #155
You and others are determined to see that they DON'T face sanction. EOTE Feb 2013 #160
So says an armchair tactician from behind his keyboard. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #162
I'd much rather have an armchair tactician defending due process and rights... EOTE Feb 2013 #167
I believe the right to barricade yourself in someone else's geek tragedy Feb 2013 #170
Along with every other right we provide suspects. NT EOTE Feb 2013 #176
No. Just that one. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #177
So you think that police have the right to murder anyone that doesn't surrender to them. Got it. EOTE Feb 2013 #178
Not a single thing you wrote is honest or accurate. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #180
So if the police kill someone, it's not murder. Got it. EOTE Feb 2013 #183
Now I know you have no idea of what you're talking about. Light House Feb 2013 #150
You clearly have no idea of what YOU are talking about. EOTE Feb 2013 #152
No, they are not justified to SET FIRE to any building a suspect Light House Feb 2013 #159
You act as if you're the ultimate authority on this matter. EOTE Feb 2013 #163
And you're acting and proving that you haven't clue one Light House Feb 2013 #172
I dare say that I've been in far more deadly sniper standoffs than you have. EOTE Feb 2013 #175
Oh I'm sure you have. Light House Feb 2013 #184
Now you seem to get how the internet works. NT EOTE Feb 2013 #186
Hell, for all any of us know, Light House Feb 2013 #191
I love animals at keyboards! MADem Feb 2013 #197
That's just too precious. eom. Light House Feb 2013 #199
What would have been the harm in waiting? treestar Feb 2013 #99
You're welcome to provide your expert opinion. EOTE Feb 2013 #110
We could always assume they are in the wrong treestar Feb 2013 #117
The PDs have certainly provided tons of reasons for us to believe them. EOTE Feb 2013 #118
I'll weigh in. Light House Feb 2013 #113
Regular tear gas causes burning eyes, Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #81
CS gas is more powerful in terms of its effect on the target. nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #85
Yes, I understand that... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #116
the other alternatives may not have been better geek tragedy Feb 2013 #129
Dorner, trapped in a cabin Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #140
I dare say had you been a cop within range of his geek tragedy Feb 2013 #142
geek tragedy.... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #149
.50 caliber rifles have an accurate range of one kilometer or more geek tragedy Feb 2013 #153
Ah, so it's an issue of money? Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #158
Let me get this straight: geek tragedy Feb 2013 #169
Yours is so patently immoral Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #179
Morally, his life did not outweigh the risks from letting this geek tragedy Feb 2013 #182
You keep insisting the police were in grave danger.... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #185
So, using tear gas was more extreme than bulldozing the place geek tragedy Feb 2013 #188
We had neither tear gas Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #190
bingo unapatriciated Feb 2013 #232
Thanks for injecting some rationality into this discussion. EOTE Feb 2013 #145
Due process applies only when the suspect Light House Feb 2013 #154
I'm as skeptical of Due Process Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #157
Standard tear gas is nothing compared to CS gas. Light House Feb 2013 #90
Doesn't getting due process pretty much equal not being able to kill regardless of the threat? dkf Feb 2013 #92
No, that's not what due process means. EOTE Feb 2013 #96
Due process requires being alive I assume. dkf Feb 2013 #102
No, that's not the case. EOTE Feb 2013 #105
So you are saying Dorner was not actively threatening anyone's life? dkf Feb 2013 #111
Whose life or lives was he threatening? EOTE Feb 2013 #112
And you are so sure no one was in possible reach of any of his weapons? dkf Feb 2013 #128
If we're not sure, then we must kill. EOTE Feb 2013 #135
The lives of others were in immediate danger treestar Feb 2013 #106
How? They were ~1000 yards back, under a great deal of protection. EOTE Feb 2013 #108
And that's the nub of the issue--not only are the police 'allowed to use deadly force,' they MADem Feb 2013 #84
How are YOU so sure he wasn't already injured and unable to come out when the place got purposely VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #208
You are talking about two different police departments, so stop with the "they" nonsense. MADem Feb 2013 #217
Not defending that guy......are you defending the ends justifying the means? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #225
I am defending the facts, as opposed to the half baked conspiracies. nt MADem Feb 2013 #228
Half Baked conspiracies? I have the audio archive to PROVE they fired incendiary devices VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #229
Yeah, so what? MADem Feb 2013 #230
and "I" am the one with a "half-baked" idea???? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #233
You don't have "evidence." You have words you are interpreting in a specific way to suit your MADem Feb 2013 #234
No I have an actual audio recording ......admit it....you never even listened to see what I had! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #235
Everyone listened to what "you" (and by you, I know you mean network TV) "has." MADem Feb 2013 #236
So that means YOU DIDN'T listen to the actual police scanner audio tape archived right? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #237
Guess what? MADem Feb 2013 #238
then Go away....you began this disagreement. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #239
Definition of DUE PROCESS VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #3
So, they should have flown a judge out there to hold a hearing? geek tragedy Feb 2013 #5
Oh really....then why are they lying about the fire? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #24
It has not been proven they are lying about intending to start the fire. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #27
Did you reach that conclusion via due process? n/t Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2013 #43
Reached it the same way you can....you can hear the orders with your own ears VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #206
Lying about what? Light House Feb 2013 #46
the sent "incendiary devices" into that building and then denied that they started the fire VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #207
There are also rules regarding arrest treestar Feb 2013 #109
There are a whole lot of cops who handle similar situations Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #4
So, it would have been professional to wait for it to get dark and let the geek tragedy Feb 2013 #6
We don't know for a fact that: kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #8
good grief bigapple1963 Feb 2013 #9
No, we ask that due process is followed regardless of whether or not the cops are really angry. EOTE Feb 2013 #53
If theKed Feb 2013 #122
did they bother to ask the old ladies delivering newspapers to surrender? Or the surfer? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #211
Why don't you ask the widow and two small children of Jeremiah Mackay? geek tragedy Feb 2013 #11
What a pathetic strawman. EOTE Feb 2013 #55
Do you deny that he shot the two cops that day? Coyote_Tan Feb 2013 #21
We don't expect criminals to be justified that's why they're criminals. EOTE Feb 2013 #56
Jeffery Dahmer had heads in his fridge....yet he was asked to surrender....he got due process VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #213
It would hardly have bee unprecedented. cali Feb 2013 #20
They "asked him to surrender" like they asked those two old ladies in the pickup to surrender? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #209
If you say so. He's obviously the victim here. nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #215
I am not defending him.....but are you defending the ends justify the means? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #224
In the case of subduing an armed, murderous lunatic, yes tear gas was justified. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #227
Your defense of Dorner, Light House Feb 2013 #223
There are a whole lot of criminals who surrender Light House Feb 2013 #7
Based on his manifesto, I am pretty sure he wanted to go out in a blaze of glory. LisaL Feb 2013 #10
You're right. Light House Feb 2013 #12
I think it's very obvious he expected to die and wasn't going to surrender. LisaL Feb 2013 #13
Agreed. eom. Light House Feb 2013 #14
Mass murder is now show biz, and there are fans & wannabes. Eleanors38 Feb 2013 #73
Yes there is. Light House Feb 2013 #77
To some, celebrity of ANY sort is a good and valued thing... Eleanors38 Feb 2013 #193
So we just gave him what he wanted? So that makes it ok? klyon Feb 2013 #192
then why do the cops need to lie about it? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #25
How do you know they're lying? Light House Feb 2013 #45
Their lips are moving? Or, you can listen to the radio feeds from when the fire was started. EOTE Feb 2013 #57
Of course they knew the dangers of these burners. Light House Feb 2013 #60
Uh yes I know that, I made it very clear. EOTE Feb 2013 #63
I'm just a little curious, Light House Feb 2013 #69
My experience in this field means nothing. EOTE Feb 2013 #71
Why is it idiotic to think that Dorner started the fire after the cannisters were deployed? Light House Feb 2013 #75
Standard tear gas was used at Waco. EOTE Feb 2013 #79
You're correct that standard tear gas was used at Waco, Light House Feb 2013 #88
Again, Koresh was a cult leader who wanted his cult to die with him. EOTE Feb 2013 #94
A lot of suppositions here. Light House Feb 2013 #101
You don't seem to be valuing due process as much as you claim. EOTE Feb 2013 #103
You keep refusing to recognize the fact that Dorner Light House Feb 2013 #120
That is not a fact, it's a belief. EOTE Feb 2013 #121
A belief? Light House Feb 2013 #126
You really don't seem to be understanding this. EOTE Feb 2013 #139
And you don't seem to understand Light House Feb 2013 #166
You let them kill themselves? EOTE Feb 2013 #168
"The absolute worst case scenario" thucythucy Feb 2013 #194
If that were to have happened... EOTE Feb 2013 #195
And you shouldn't make assumptions thucythucy Feb 2013 #201
He was totally surrounded. EOTE Feb 2013 #204
7 incendiary devices were delivered yet they don't know how the fire started? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #210
Aw, bullshit. cliffordu Feb 2013 #37
You're right, setting houses on fire is SOP for PDs everywhere. EOTE Feb 2013 #58
not to mention the fact that fire removes all evidence VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #214
Such a situation is not daily or common treestar Feb 2013 #95
Really? Jeff In Milwaukee Feb 2013 #144
Really? "A whole lot of cops thucythucy Feb 2013 #196
Yes a whole lot of cops Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #203
This cop thinks differently Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #205
The word you are searching for is "waiver" jberryhill Feb 2013 #15
Some rights aren't waivable. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #16
That's exactly right. Zoeisright Feb 2013 #28
Yup! That's right! No due process was lost here. longship Feb 2013 #17
I'm not saying he was denied due process but I still can't cali Feb 2013 #18
One that killed four people? Confusious Feb 2013 #35
So, was *this* "due process"? Fumesucker Feb 2013 #22
Different problem. cliffordu Feb 2013 #38
From the OP Fumesucker Feb 2013 #44
Indeed there is jberryhill Feb 2013 #202
This conversation is SO STUPID. Confusing truly unrelated issues... Bonobo Feb 2013 #23
if that is all true....why do the cops need to lie about it? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #26
His post doesn't say Dorner didn't have a right to due process. nt Honeycombe8 Feb 2013 #29
He had a right to due process. That right was not violated by the police. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #31
Well, I don't have enough facts. Bonobo Feb 2013 #34
Well, fuck. cliffordu Feb 2013 #39
"Anyone who says that Chris Dorner was deprived of due process because cops stopped letting Hissyspit Feb 2013 #30
As a legal matter, his due process rights were not violated. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #32
Did the LEOs know without a doubt there was noone else in the cabin before the "burn the pkdu Feb 2013 #33
stand offs that last a long time are in situations where people aren't being shot at TorchTheWitch Feb 2013 #36
^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^ cliffordu Feb 2013 #40
"burning the cabin as apposed to the police shooting back at him" jberryhill Feb 2013 #54
+1! n/t zappaman Feb 2013 #187
" likely had no hostages since he was chased into the cabin ..." And.. pkdu Feb 2013 #222
Again, all the info together told them there were no hostages TorchTheWitch Feb 2013 #226
It is willful ignorance and purposeful mis-statements of facts such as this Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #41
In what way were Chris Dorner's rights violated at that cabin? nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #42
He was executed by the police. Why didn't they just use a sniper to blow him away? Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #127
Um, no. They are allowed to use lethal force against dangerous suspects. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #132
Why didn't you answer the question? Why not simply use a sniper to take him out? Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #164
Why not use a sniper? geek tragedy Feb 2013 #173
Before you go around throwing out terms like "painfully stupid" Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #198
Well, subsituting "possible" for "reasonable" radically changes geek tragedy Feb 2013 #200
Instead of attacking the messenger, Light House Feb 2013 #48
I didn't attack the messenger, but rather the message he has flogged off in the OP. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #124
Yes he did have rights, Light House Feb 2013 #130
That's exactly what I wrote about in the initial reply, contorting the facts to fit Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #148
Due process does not mean 'I see a truck, let's unload our weapons without warning'. Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #49
This is not about the abhorrent actions by those cops against those civilians. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #51
Those actions theKed Feb 2013 #131
They treated him like a highly dangerous suspect geek tragedy Feb 2013 #133
Tell that to the Republicans... theKed Feb 2013 #134
I'm citing the law. There is a right to not be presumed guilty. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #138
Sense of humor. theKed Feb 2013 #171
Too many posts that would read like jokes in rational geek tragedy Feb 2013 #174
You are wrong. Light House Feb 2013 #136
the police are denying they deliberately burned the cabin Enrique Feb 2013 #59
I'm not a fan of overzealous police Progressive dog Feb 2013 #61
All they need to do is look at the interviews with his former girlfriend. MADem Feb 2013 #62
Thank you. Light House Feb 2013 #64
The ex-girlfriend's remarks are chilling--and she was in a relationship MADem Feb 2013 #123
Maybe it's because of my background, Light House Feb 2013 #143
His suicide manifesto made it clear he intended to die. MADem Feb 2013 #165
Indeed, the irony is that the LAPD hires people like Chris Dorner. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #66
I think he made a very fine first impression, but didn't have the emotional fortitude or the MADem Feb 2013 #125
I don't think those of us claiming lack of due process are claiming that he was a good guy. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #82
No, people are pointing out that the claims that it's been proven geek tragedy Feb 2013 #86
You just slippery sloped the facts, there, if we're going to talk about those. MADem Feb 2013 #119
Fail. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #78
Actually, your statement is factually false on a number of levels. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #93
Free to walk out? The Straight Story Feb 2013 #156
He had a legal obligation to walk out and surrender. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #161
He was free to surrender himself during his week on the run. Light House Feb 2013 #181
Thank you! treestar Feb 2013 #91
Nice strawman! One side of the story has certainly been silenced. Coyotl Feb 2013 #147
Not silenced, Just ignored outside of DU and Infowars. nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #189
Shooting at cops is likely to end in death quakerboy Feb 2013 #212
Well, yeah. And aside from a teeny tiny number of people, no geek tragedy Feb 2013 #216
LOL !!! - Another "Great American" Pipes In... - Proving He Knows NOTHING Of BEING An American... WillyT Feb 2013 #218
Um, I knew he wasn't burned to death by police. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #219
And You Are SO Lucky In That Way... And If I Were You... I'd Keep Kissing Corporate Ass... WillyT Feb 2013 #220
Can you at least stay on topic in your childish, baseless insults? geek tragedy Feb 2013 #221
Some people resist arrest with lethal or potentially lethal violence quaker bill Feb 2013 #231
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