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geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
241. Fire fighting equipment was on hand in case it spread.
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:05 AM
Feb 2013

Long story short, he was going to die in that cabin one way or the other. They were going to shoot him, or he was going to shoot himself. It was never going to be them tackling him or otherwise disarming him.

And that's his doing.

I'd say anyone who's killed multiple sharp_stick Feb 2013 #1
They had acheived containment, but had no patience. HereSince1628 Feb 2013 #14
why would they have patience? for what reason? patience? really? robinlynne Feb 2013 #136
who needs the rule of law? it's so archaic.. frylock Feb 2013 #177
No. I dont mean that. But we all suspected he would not be arrested alive. robinlynne Feb 2013 #183
You're right. Light House Feb 2013 #192
And law enforcement made it perfectly clear with their first ambush on a citizen notadmblnd Feb 2013 #235
Dorner could have, during his week while on the run, Light House Feb 2013 #239
C'mon, they're all members of the same damn club notadmblnd Feb 2013 #244
Oh really? Light House Feb 2013 #248
he never would have made it to any police station notadmblnd Feb 2013 #250
What do you mean he wouldn't have made it to any police station? Light House Feb 2013 #253
I think you give him too much credit notadmblnd Feb 2013 #254
You may very well be right about the police never allowing him to surrender, Light House Feb 2013 #255
In the interest of the concept of minimal damage if nothing else HereSince1628 Feb 2013 #210
Exactly - they could have waited him out. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #41
This guy wasn't going to surrender sharp_stick Feb 2013 #73
He would have surrendered, or killed himself eventually. bvar22 Feb 2013 #135
He was trapped in the cabin, and they had control over his water supply. jeff47 Feb 2013 #226
You do know that the word burner Light House Feb 2013 #148
There are different types of teargas cannisters. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #173
You are exactly right. Light House Feb 2013 #176
I don't think it was the LAPD that lobbed the teargas in. randome Feb 2013 #182
If it wasn't LAPD, who was it? backscatter712 Feb 2013 #186
The area is not in Los Angeles, or La County. It is east of LA. another city. in another county. robinlynne Feb 2013 #188
'Burners' is another term for 'incendiary teargas canisters'. randome Feb 2013 #193
I know that. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #197
Oh, I thought they were making room for these folks to come in.... jberryhill Feb 2013 #203
what is the story behind this photo? robinlynne Feb 2013 #207
Behind that photo is the other side of your monitor screen jberryhill Feb 2013 #208
ahh. burning man. I did not get the reference. robinlynne Feb 2013 #209
San Bernardino County Sheriffs Dept., Light House Feb 2013 #195
Fair answer. n/t backscatter712 Feb 2013 #205
LAPD werent there. San Bernardino Sheriffs were there. robinlynne Feb 2013 #187
The police don't get to convict people for murder tinrobot Feb 2013 #238
He had multiple chances to surrender sharp_stick Feb 2013 #268
We don't know the cause of death tinrobot Feb 2013 #272
NO riverbendviewgal Feb 2013 #251
He was contained and he was imminent threat out in the middle of nowhere? LiberalFighter Feb 2013 #294
"My guess is Dorner was already dead when they fired off the teargas." jberryhill Feb 2013 #2
Not the short straw sharp_stick Feb 2013 #8
why not just hold off on drastic action? cali Feb 2013 #17
Until the dead guy comes out? jberryhill Feb 2013 #21
They'd already torn down the walls of the cabin cali Feb 2013 #27
Yeah, they don't have robots for stuff like that or anything. beevul Feb 2013 #128
Those are more limited than you apparently think jberryhill Feb 2013 #129
So, explain, how limited are they? beevul Feb 2013 #154
Shit, there was someone here the other day asking if Dorner deserved trial... Earth_First Feb 2013 #3
But...but...he's an EEEEVILDOER!!!!! Taverner Feb 2013 #57
I doubt too many people associated with those he murdered are going to lose sleep over this dlwickham Feb 2013 #123
He deserved atrial like anyone else treestar Feb 2013 #142
It's not clear that the authorities torched the cabin NV Whino Feb 2013 #4
Or indirectly started by the tear gas canister exploding. n/t FSogol Feb 2013 #15
I think they used some kind of incendiary device marions ghost Feb 2013 #45
Damn Skippy. nt MrScorpio Feb 2013 #59
We agree marions ghost Feb 2013 #178
There is video of them saying they were going to torch the cabin and burn the MF out. Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #67
We can't KNOW that! Even though they said they were going to, and then it happened. And there's Marr Feb 2013 #113
Or shot himself, then set the.... louis-t Feb 2013 #81
What do you mean it's not clear who torched the cabin? DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #278
Torching the cabin is one thing... liberalmuse Feb 2013 #5
They intentionally burned the cabin? Ohio Joe Feb 2013 #6
There are several threads from yesterday with video of them in the background Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #215
Are these the threads you meant? countryjake Feb 2013 #237
Here is a thread I just ran across Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #219
There are two or more links to the scanner traffic audio... countryjake Feb 2013 #233
Thank you for posting this. DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #279
I think the Dpm12 Feb 2013 #7
Reason? Yes. Legitimate? That's pushing the issue. immoderate Feb 2013 #36
Yeah, who cares about due process. nt Mnemosyne Feb 2013 #48
No, they didn't. They had a legitimate reason to tear gas the guy. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #79
lemme guess. you're white middle class without a care in the world.. frylock Feb 2013 #184
I don't think there's any question they wanted to summarily execute him if given the opportunity Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #9
That was a BIG mistake. Reno 911 comes to mind. marions ghost Feb 2013 #52
Well said cali. Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #10
+1000. Light House Feb 2013 #18
I don't even think it was the LAPD that made the decision, was it? randome Feb 2013 #19
Perhaps not...but you can be sure they influenced it. n/t Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #23
This was NOT LAPD!! longship Feb 2013 #90
And you think LAPD has no influence there? Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #92
Repeat. Not LAPD. nt longship Feb 2013 #94
Right. Light House Feb 2013 #102
Okay...so CA Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #117
The use of deadly force was appropriate. longship Feb 2013 #122
We disagree on Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #133
"We don't yet know if he was firing on LE from the cabin." longship Feb 2013 #149
They were shot before he got to this cabin, I believe.... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #158
It's the rules of engagement of which Dorner was aware. longship Feb 2013 #180
All the more reason to not burn down the cabin... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #194
It all comes down to the fact that Dorner Light House Feb 2013 #198
No apology necessary. longship Feb 2013 #200
"seems to think force is always the answer" jberryhill Feb 2013 #201
Oh, I think there are many who do... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #212
Tell the 4 people whom the LAPD almost killed in the previous days about the rules of engagement. DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #282
The LAPD had nothing to do with Big Bear. longship Feb 2013 #296
You didn't fact check anything, you aren't even sure of your own opinion! DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #298
I would welcome your correction, if you have one. longship Feb 2013 #300
They ordered the helicopters to stand off specifically so they could ChisolmTrailDem Feb 2013 #11
You don't know that and no, I don't see the cops on the scene as being as bad as Dorner cali Feb 2013 #22
He had the opportunity to come out of the cabin too marions ghost Feb 2013 #65
I don't know if you knew this, but fire kills people Scootaloo Feb 2013 #96
Link to DUer saying that, please jberryhill Feb 2013 #104
Do you support the police setting the cabin on fire? Scootaloo Feb 2013 #106
I doubt they did that deliberately. randome Feb 2013 #109
As I said, I don't know if they did or not Scootaloo Feb 2013 #112
They burned the place AFTER they pulled the walls down? RC Feb 2013 #167
Right now, it appears it was the teargas that started the fire. randome Feb 2013 #168
I don't even support the death penalty jberryhill Feb 2013 #110
Anything involving a cop is "lawful" since the other option is the cops turning against the citizens Scootaloo Feb 2013 #116
I agree with you the fire should never have been oldbanjo Feb 2013 #157
Actually, Light House Feb 2013 #115
He was a cop. I think it was speaking his language. marions ghost Feb 2013 #120
He may have simply assumed they were redecorating jberryhill Feb 2013 #121
Or to make it easier for the pizza delivery guy! randome Feb 2013 #125
That and the aromatherapy jberryhill Feb 2013 #127
They had to tear big holes so they could get the burners in the cabin. oldbanjo Feb 2013 #162
'Burners' is another term for 'incendiary teargas canisters'. randome Feb 2013 #165
Yes it was tear gas. Light House Feb 2013 #171
Yes, that absolutely is what you're saying Scootaloo Feb 2013 #126
No way do I think that the police are always right marions ghost Feb 2013 #137
Didn't the tear gas cause the conflagration? With exploding ammo, etc? randome Feb 2013 #12
Well they did say burn it: The Straight Story Feb 2013 #20
Apparently 'burners' is also a term used for 'incendiary teargas cannisters'. randome Feb 2013 #37
You're right. Light House Feb 2013 #66
Why the need to use INCENDIARY teargas canisters? Are they available in a kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #86
As far as I know, Light House Feb 2013 #118
I don't know the answer to that one. randome Feb 2013 #119
Yes, there are "non-incendiary" tear gas canisters. jeff47 Feb 2013 #227
I don't have enough facts to make a determination one way or another. NCTraveler Feb 2013 #13
The question should be did they INTENTIONALLY torch the cabin or Lurks Often Feb 2013 #16
Here's the line, btw jberryhill Feb 2013 #25
Strawman Crepuscular Feb 2013 #28
The Constitution doesn't require "being shot at" jberryhill Feb 2013 #33
irrelevent Crepuscular Feb 2013 #46
"it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force" jberryhill Feb 2013 #51
So there should be no limitation? Crepuscular Feb 2013 #63
It would seem that it does require deadly force to be the last resort. beevul Feb 2013 #159
Or, you could look at the legal history of words like "necessary" jberryhill Feb 2013 #164
So much that just isn't reality in your post. beevul Feb 2013 #181
Oh it can't, can it? jberryhill Feb 2013 #204
That provides some needed perspective. Thanks. randome Feb 2013 #30
Ok, thanks n/t Lurks Often Feb 2013 #49
If that's the case they shouldn't have a problem admitting it. n/t 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #71
The story was... Benton D Struckcheon Feb 2013 #34
I believe the cops deliberately torched it marions ghost Feb 2013 #76
+1 000 000 000 kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #88
Civilian Tear Gas Would Not Start A Fire DallasNE Feb 2013 #202
From the radio communication: They torched the place, tear gas canister starting the fire is bogus, arthritisR_US Feb 2013 #24
It's just your opinion that they purposely torched the place. Light House Feb 2013 #29
"Seven burners deployed and we have a fire." .... arthritisR_US Feb 2013 #35
See post #37 about the term 'burners'. randome Feb 2013 #39
You are right. Light House Feb 2013 #40
The term "burners" is slang for tear gas Light House Feb 2013 #72
Ya, I was just reading about that and it arthritisR_US Feb 2013 #131
This whole incident is tragic. Light House Feb 2013 #138
I couldn't agree more or have said it better! arthritisR_US Feb 2013 #141
I am going to venture a guess that any official report GObamaGO Feb 2013 #174
Given what we've seen before, Light House Feb 2013 #179
Anybody who knows anything about tear gas canisters ...... oldhippie Feb 2013 #42
According Crepuscular Feb 2013 #26
From things I've read this was not madmom Feb 2013 #31
A police operation like this should never be about "being entitled to react" cali Feb 2013 #38
"... specifically the LAPD..." madmom Feb 2013 #93
There could have been hostages in there... indie9197 Feb 2013 #32
No one had any of these moral or ethical issues about Dykes last week. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #43
Or about "Kai the Hitchhiker" jberryhill Feb 2013 #54
I don't think he killed the dude, just batted him on the head a few times, no? randome Feb 2013 #61
2:47 "So, he's dead. Good." jberryhill Feb 2013 #98
He didn't kill him, he whacked him in the head DURING AN ATTACK ON A WOMAN. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #91
So Kai is a liar now? jberryhill Feb 2013 #101
I'm not going to watch a video at work but I did not know that. randome Feb 2013 #114
As every knows, when beating someone on the head with a hatchet... jberryhill Feb 2013 #124
I don't know that I would take his comment as proof that the guy is dead. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #196
But here you have Kai... jberryhill Feb 2013 #199
I doubt that LAPD had much to do with the final phase FarCenter Feb 2013 #44
How in the world can you claim he didn't pose a threat? LisaL Feb 2013 #47
He was contained. cali Feb 2013 #53
...and trained in escape and evasion jberryhill Feb 2013 #55
really? he was going to escape from a heavily surrounded cabin with no wall? Please cali Feb 2013 #69
At night, in the woods. Stranger things happen every minute. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #80
If only our police had some sort of "night-vision" equipment. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2013 #232
Which doesn't see through smoke. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #234
Well, perhaps then the police shouldn't have set a fire. jeff47 Feb 2013 #240
Fire fighting equipment was on hand in case it spread. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #241
That's right. Light House Feb 2013 #243
Some people just can't stand the thought of the state using violence against anyone geek tragedy Feb 2013 #245
So let him shoot himself. jeff47 Feb 2013 #247
Well, except the danger wasn't going to go away and it would in fact get more dangerous at night geek tragedy Feb 2013 #249
There's plenty of people claiming they won't be taken alive jeff47 Feb 2013 #252
How many people has Ted Nugent killed when they tried to arrest him? geek tragedy Feb 2013 #256
And? He still presumably had guns. LisaL Feb 2013 #56
How would anyone 'contain' him? randome Feb 2013 #58
you do know the police often use floodlights, right? And the cabin walls had been torn down cali Feb 2013 #74
Floodlights work a lot better on city blocks than in the woods. nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #82
Says you safely behind your computer. LisaL Feb 2013 #83
Supposedly with a .50 caliber sniper rifle... Coyote_Tan Feb 2013 #68
cali. Dorner had a .50-caliber sniper rifle NNN0LHI Feb 2013 #100
I agree with you and I think you are brave to say it. Not afraid to be called a murder "apologist". rhett o rick Feb 2013 #50
There was a lot of murder happening yesterday. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #64
"Wrong" is so relative. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #60
WAIT MFM008 Feb 2013 #62
Finding the driver's license is weird. Lex Feb 2013 #70
If the DL was in a wallet, as it seems to be the case, Light House Feb 2013 #75
I want that kind of wallet! nt Lex Feb 2013 #99
If the wallet was closed, and I'm just guessing that it was, Light House Feb 2013 #107
Torching it was indeed wrong. We are a nation of laws and our law ENFORCEMENT people are bound by kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #77
How is this not law? jberryhill Feb 2013 #103
Yep. Use of deadly force sounds perfectly legal to me. LisaL Feb 2013 #111
Has anyone established that ... beevul Feb 2013 #152
Read the rest of the thread, please. randome Feb 2013 #156
It doesn't matter what he "was". beevul Feb 2013 #161
I don't get you. randome Feb 2013 #163
"Pause". beevul Feb 2013 #172
They went overboard on the use of incendiary tear gas, but under geek tragedy Feb 2013 #78
What the heck did this guy know? midnight Feb 2013 #84
Maybe that we never actually sent men to the Moon. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #87
If they intentionally torched the cabin get the red out Feb 2013 #85
Dunno marions ghost Feb 2013 #105
They send it tear gas. LisaL Feb 2013 #108
cabin walls being torn down? IcyPeas Feb 2013 #89
I don't think that makes any sense either. LisaL Feb 2013 #97
They were using an armored vehicle. Light House Feb 2013 #155
k/r PM Martin Feb 2013 #95
they were going to kill him instead of capture him RILib Feb 2013 #130
That story does not mesh with the video tapes. (one single bullet, walls coming down, etc.) robinlynne Feb 2013 #132
We are a nation of laws w/explicit rights to juries & prohibitions against cruel&unusual punishments DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #134
What America are you living in? marions ghost Feb 2013 #140
Once you surrender treestar Feb 2013 #144
Inane non sequitur is inane. You are awarded no points. nt DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #146
You had the non sequitur treestar Feb 2013 #206
Except you're leaving out the part were they never had any intention to take him alive. DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #214
Only they know what was in their minds treestar Feb 2013 #273
Yes, Light House Feb 2013 #190
Our rights don't work they way you think they do. DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #216
You have me confused with someone else. Light House Feb 2013 #218
I dont think this was ever going to be a turn the other cheek situation. he shot police family. robinlynne Feb 2013 #139
I didn't get a chance to respond to you in the thread that was locked, but.... OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #225
interesting. robinlynne Feb 2013 #229
Did you see any of the CBS video? Historic NY Feb 2013 #143
Oh-Oh, Cali. NOW you have done it! bvar22 Feb 2013 #145
This mess has really brought out the blood-thirsty, hasn't it? nt DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #151
If you'll read the rest of this thread, you'll see that it's not a black & white issue for most. randome Feb 2013 #153
Where are all these blood-lusting mobs of death-mongers I keep hearing about? great white snark Feb 2013 #170
I would always have preferred Dorner to be taken alive. randome Feb 2013 #175
The mob will now swarm after her. It's wild to watch. myrna minx Feb 2013 #169
not even close, this post is different from the others which are rightly being criticized as JI7 Feb 2013 #191
What we had there was a failure to communicate... countryjake Feb 2013 #147
I would have liked to have this guy in custody myself.... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #150
If Dorner was in there armed austinlw Feb 2013 #160
The cops did not want to have to deal with this man after dark.. I don't blame them.... secondwind Feb 2013 #166
It is their job to deal with dangerous people and situations . . . markpkessinger Feb 2013 #220
So the police torched it? rightsideout Feb 2013 #185
This Reminded Me Of Police Torching The Symbionese Liberation Army Safehouse DallasNE Feb 2013 #189
Don't forget THIS one: bvar22 Feb 2013 #213
At this point, are they even sure what caused the fire? lynne Feb 2013 #211
On radio scanners, the police talked about deploying "burners" which are separate... DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #217
They are not separate from tear gas. Light House Feb 2013 #223
I can't find any reference outside of this event showing "burner" to be slang for teargas... DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #258
I speak from experience. Light House Feb 2013 #259
And again, I can find no reference to this "slang" outside this incident. Highly unlikely it'd go... DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #260
Go ahead and belive what you want, Light House Feb 2013 #261
"This is an internal thing." Ooo, pulling the "secret knowledge" card. Right. You do know slang is DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #263
Here is a link. randome Feb 2013 #267
Tenuous at best, reads like the officer confused the two but I'm not going to continue on slang. DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #270
You were proven wrong and you call it tenuous? Light House Feb 2013 #271
Yes, I call it tenuous. The quote is oddly phrased and given only one example out of how many years? DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #285
Does anyone know Go Vols Feb 2013 #221
No, they are not as effective as the pyrotechnic type tear gas cannister. Light House Feb 2013 #224
a bit more info here: steve2470 Feb 2013 #222
I would have loved to see the commentary on THIS forum when Waco was 'torched'...indeed. Purveyor Feb 2013 #228
on THIS forum? Which forum are you from? robinlynne Feb 2013 #230
Back then...I wasn't on a 'forum' and just what are you suggesting Robinlynne? eom Purveyor Feb 2013 #257
Of course - Dornan had a Constitutional right to kill more people. n/t Lil Missy Feb 2013 #231
Of course that's not even close to what I said, but you know that which cali Feb 2013 #264
In all the coverage, I have yet to hear from anyone in the mental health field. Coyotl Feb 2013 #236
A cop went to arrest him and take him to a mental health check-up and Dorner killed him. cbdo2007 Feb 2013 #274
Thanks for reinforcing my point. Shooting the mentally ill if they pose a threat Coyotl Feb 2013 #275
He didn't "pose a threat" - he actually killed people. If there was any chance he would kill someone cbdo2007 Feb 2013 #287
I oppose killing mental patients. Coyotl Feb 2013 #305
I oppose mental patients killing innocent people more than I oppose killing mental patients who are cbdo2007 Feb 2013 #306
The LAPD almost killed an additional 4 people in their rush murder Dorner. DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #281
I didn't hear about other people being in the cabin. Link?? cbdo2007 Feb 2013 #288
I'm talking about the people the LAPD attacked several days ago while looking for Dorner. DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #291
I think we all agree that they shouldn't have shot at those people.... cbdo2007 Feb 2013 #307
That's right we're talking about them burning down the cabin, and their previous action speak to DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #308
Dorner wanted to go out this way... Kalidurga Feb 2013 #242
The whole cabin thing was taking a way too long rightsideout Feb 2013 #246
On top of all the other problems, the strategy the cops used at that cabin was extremely reckless. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #262
This message was self-deleted by its author davidpdx Feb 2013 #265
It definitely was wrong ... Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2013 #266
You are correct. They should have used a bazooka or missile launcher.... cbdo2007 Feb 2013 #269
Torching Dorner's cabin was not only wrong, it was murder. DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #276
It wasn't "Dorner's cabin," for openers Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #277
So now you want to split hairs over the way I identified the cabin, that's petty! DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #280
Due process? You mean because he surrendered? Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #283
The two cops he shot were several hours prior to the police murdering him. DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #284
I don't really care. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #286
That's right, fuck Dorner, and fuck the LAPD organization or criminals and murderers. DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #290
Not brave enough to condemn him without condemning them, huh? Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #293
Not brave enough? You mean not brave enough to ignore one murderous organization while condemning DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #295
Judge, jury and executioner? Light House Feb 2013 #289
This is a case of murderers murdering a murderer. DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #292
+1 darkangel218 Feb 2013 #299
I'll say it again Light House Feb 2013 #302
It wasnt the police bussiness to punish and torture him. darkangel218 Feb 2013 #297
Crap. Light House Feb 2013 #301
How do you know he offed himself?? darkangel218 Feb 2013 #303
No, I don't know for sure that he offed himself, Light House Feb 2013 #304
You conveniently ignore the other murderous party to these events, the police! DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #309
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