No, we cannot (Reply #77) - Democratic Underground

In the discussion thread: Dorner admitted to killings, targeting lesbians for being 'misandrist' and defended Chick Fil-A [View all]

Response to geek tragedy (Reply #74)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:10 PM

theKed (1,235 posts)

77. No, we cannot

It's really that simple.

Someone is not a criminal until they are found to be a criminal in a court of law.

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171 replies	Author	Time	Post
Dorner admitted to killings, targeting lesbians for being 'misandrist' and defended Chick Fil-A [View all]	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	OP
The CTers have that covered already...	zappaman	Feb 2013	#1
Wow. I knew he was a loon but I didn't know HOW looney.	randome	Feb 2013	#2
If you wade through the babbling, you get gems like	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#3
"Yeah, just be an asshole like	Cha	Feb 2013	#12
From the manifesto	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#14
Oh no..	Cha	Feb 2013	#17
makes it easy to gun him down and carry on	tiny elvis	Feb 2013	#129
He is a sick man. nt	SunSeeker	Feb 2013	#4
I don't think anyone is arguing he is a good guy or saint	quinnox	Feb 2013	#5
Plenty of people raising doubt as to whether he's actually killed anyone.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#6
That reminds me of the fox routine of "some people."	nadinbrzezinski	Feb 2013	#20
"Innocent until proven guilty" is a legal concept, not one that applies	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#23
I prefer a country where this is understood.	nadinbrzezinski	Feb 2013	#29
I do not defend the indefensible re: LAPD or Torrance.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#32
Lots of people claiming it's not his fault, that he was pushed into	cali	Feb 2013	#7
The same people who will claim to know WHY he killed will then turn around	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#9
That's a common one	RZM	Feb 2013	#27
Typical conversation:	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#30
It's called moral hedging.	Eleanors38	Feb 2013	#151
A Chick Fil A defender, wha wha wha? Send in the Hellfire Drones	NightWatcher	Feb 2013	#8
He says he's wants to "reclaim my name"..?!	LeftinOH	Feb 2013	#10
"I'm a murderer, not a filer of false reports!" nt	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#11
Written confessions don't really prove anything	RedCappedBandit	Feb 2013	#13
Did you read what you wrote?	Dreamer Tatum	Feb 2013	#16
We will never know anything for certain	RedCappedBandit	Feb 2013	#48
The part where it said "I'm not sure, but I'm sure." nt	Dreamer Tatum	Feb 2013	#49
Can't prove evolution with 100% certainty.	RedCappedBandit	Feb 2013	#51
Comparing a known fact to a theory. Good one, Dr. Logic.	WinkyDink	Feb 2013	#103
Yes, thank you.	RedCappedBandit	Feb 2013	#127
Facebook posts are not admissible as criminal evidence.	morningfog	Feb 2013	#91
Not if the author admits to his authorship.	WinkyDink	Feb 2013	#104
Sure, under oath. If they have a defense lawyer worth a damn, they won't.	morningfog	Feb 2013	#106
He'd best not at any time, under oath or not, if he wants the prosecutor not to bring it up.	WinkyDink	Feb 2013	#110
They get used against people routinely.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#148
Will you next argue that we are all in a cave and "know" only shadows?	WinkyDink	Feb 2013	#112
I was wavering on Dorner until you mentioned Chick-Fil-A. That's a game changer.	Comrade Grumpy	Feb 2013	#15
Well, there is the part where he talks about his plan to kill children	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#18
LOL. Nicely done	RZM	Feb 2013	#31
If what the presumed guilty writes abolishes their legal presumption of innocence prior to trial,	Occulus	Feb 2013	#19
The presumption of innocence means that the state can't punish you	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#24
On the contrary; to prospective jurors, that's exactly what it must mean	Occulus	Feb 2013	#57
I am not a potential juror. Could you serve on Dick Cheney's jury	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#62
Niiiiice.	Zoeisright	Feb 2013	#95
Irony is this entire vendetta is because he refutes being found guilty of being a liar	dkf	Feb 2013	#137
presumption of innocence is a legal concept. No one is saying that Dorner shouldn't have	cali	Feb 2013	#25
Holy crap. This guy makes the Unabomber look sane by comparison.	Initech	Feb 2013	#21
Yeah, well.	sibelian	Feb 2013	#22
i can't believe people think this guy has any credibility	JI7	Feb 2013	#26
Well, they simultaneously argue:	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#28
He admitted to murder so it's the LAPD's job to	abelenkpe	Feb 2013	#33
The LAPD doing its job on a number of fronts would be a welcome	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#34
So true! nt	abelenkpe	Feb 2013	#35
NONE of which justifies his extrajudicial killing by any LEO. ALL accused in the US are	kestrel91316	Feb 2013	#36
There's a world of difference between "due process must be followed"	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#38
Well, let me tell you that the law does not allow for fugitives to claim due process rights	msanthrope	Feb 2013	#55
Who precisely is stating he should be denied due process by the courts?	LanternWaste	Feb 2013	#132
One does not have to be sane, nor a saint to be a whistleblower	jeff47	Feb 2013	#37
If he'll let himself be captured.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#39
At this point, he seems to mostly be running	jeff47	Feb 2013	#41
If you read his manifesto, he repeatedly says he's not afraid to die,	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#42
Sure, he wrote that. But he's not charging towards the cops guns blazing (nt)	jeff47	Feb 2013	#45
He is already accused of killing a cop.	LisaL	Feb 2013	#46
Yes, which isn't a "blaze of glory" like the other poster was talking about. (nt)	jeff47	Feb 2013	#47
He wants to take as many with him as possible.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#50
Severely	libodem	Feb 2013	#40
Yes. I agree. He's severely disturbed and he's gone over the edge.	yardwork	Feb 2013	#52
What a mess	libodem	Feb 2013	#53
I am sure that some of his relatives noticed this gathering.	yardwork	Feb 2013	#54
Yes	libodem	Feb 2013	#56
It's very sad. All these people dead and he will die.	yardwork	Feb 2013	#58
Yes	libodem	Feb 2013	#63
It almost seems like he was picking up bits and pieces of popular culture.	yardwork	Feb 2013	#70
His ex-girlfriend did....years ago.	dkf	Feb 2013	#84
That about says it all	libodem	Feb 2013	#88
With all his hate;	greiner3	Feb 2013	#43
Assholitarian. nt	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#44
This revelation only makes me hate the guy even more	robertkdem1965_h89	Feb 2013	#59
Was this said in a court of law?	Lady Freedom Returns	Feb 2013	#60
+++1,000,000,000	shcrane71	Feb 2013	#61
So, you also doubt that he was wrongly fired and was motivated by LAPD	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#67
Please use linear arguments. Now just what are you (anonymous person I've never	shcrane71	Feb 2013	#71
Point being, if you don't have any opinion as to whether he killed anyone, logically	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#75
So, you don't examine facts using your own mind, but rather	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#65
I believe in the 6th.	Lady Freedom Returns	Feb 2013	#68
So, you don't believe Cheney and Kissinger are war criminals then. nt	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#69
What I believe is that there needs to be a trial in a court of law.	Lady Freedom Returns	Feb 2013	#76
Do you know who shot the children of Sandy Hook or have an opinion	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#79
You are asking a different question than who is "guilty."	morningfog	Feb 2013	#94
If there's ever a trial, then the legalities will matter more.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#100
Even if you don't have a belief	FrodosPet	Feb 2013	#139
To much iffy, hear say to say anything.	Lady Freedom Returns	Feb 2013	#146
This is getting more telling. Fuck juries! LOL!	morningfog	Feb 2013	#93
Juries don't create facts, they only look at them.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#101
Ken Lay was innocent! Innocent, I tell you!! Pure as the driven snow!	MADem	Feb 2013	#113
OJ Simpson caused Nicole Brown's death by slashing her throat, but he committed	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#117
Facebook posts are not admissible or reliable.	morningfog	Feb 2013	#92
Under what rule of evidence? Nt	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#102
They can't be verified as authentic.	morningfog	Feb 2013	#105
That's just factually incorrect.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#111
Incorrect -- admissible in both civil and criminal cases	obamanut2012	Feb 2013	#169
They most definitely are	obamanut2012	Feb 2013	#168
Sorry, I turned off	theKed	Feb 2013	#64
Oh, so you don't pay attention to facts unless they've been adjudicated in a court of law?	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#66
Nice.	theKed	Feb 2013	#72
I'm saying that we as private citizens are not bound by the rules surrounding	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#74
No, we cannot	theKed	Feb 2013	#77
Legally and factually are different concepts.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#78
There is no criminal conviction	theKed	Feb 2013	#82
I'm not convicting him. I am looking at the facts. The presumption of innocence applies	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#85
How do you feel about	theKed	Feb 2013	#97
What about it? First Amendment. nt	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#98
Hey, I'm calling sunrise tomorrow! Your point?	WinkyDink	Feb 2013	#116
Legally. But only lobotomies can prevent people from thinking otherwise.	WinkyDink	Feb 2013	#115
That is where you a wrong.	Lady Freedom Returns	Feb 2013	#83
The law does not require private citizens to abstain from forming a factual belief	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#86
We, so that the system can truly work ,must not rush to judgment.	Lady Freedom Returns	Feb 2013	#121
Yes, people who think for themselves are destroying democracy.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#122
People who don't know all the facts, and we will not know all till a trial, are.	Lady Freedom Returns	Feb 2013	#124
The world is full of people who know their way of thinking is right. nt	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#125
And I am glad to know my way is seen as right due to 2 great documents.n/t	Lady Freedom Returns	Feb 2013	#147
You are completely, 100% incorrect re: trials, jurors, and the general public.	WinkyDink	Feb 2013	#114
It goes,"Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law."	Lady Freedom Returns	Feb 2013	#123
Wow. He is sicko. He thinks that murdering will vindicate him. Makes no sense. Filled with hate...	Honeycombe8	Feb 2013	#73
He is the "alleged murderer" because he is innocent until found guilty by a court	Agnosticsherbet	Feb 2013	#80
Legally, sure, but the legal world is a distortion of the real world.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#81
Trials are every bit as perfect as the people involved in them.	Agnosticsherbet	Feb 2013	#87
That's fair. Also fair would be for someone like me to be excluded from	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#89
That is a respectable admission on your part.	morningfog	Feb 2013	#96
People not on the jury can call him guilty as hell if we want.	WinkyDink	Feb 2013	#107
LOL at your "innocent before proven guilty crowd."	morningfog	Feb 2013	#90
Legally, I agree. But there are people accusing those who state that he did kill those	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#99
Dorner is one of the bad guys in this story. A stone cold killer who needs to got to trial.	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2013	#130
I see where you're coming from, but if I in any way seemed to	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#133
But you sure seem to be defending LAPD. Not a critical word toward the cop in my story, not a	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2013	#140
It's definitive only if you're determined to put words in people's mouths.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#145
I put no words in your mouth, nor did you. It was your lack of words, your silence that I find	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2013	#157
I do agree strongly, It just seems so obvious that it goes without saying.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#158
This is a discussion board and not a trial, in case you missed that salient tidbit.	WinkyDink	Feb 2013	#109
Oh, I didn't miss it. But, when someone rails against those	morningfog	Feb 2013	#120
And the state has declared he is guilty of being a liar.	dkf	Feb 2013	#138
What? Your post makes no sense.	morningfog	Feb 2013	#142
Dorner is mad because he is was found guilty by a court of lying about Evans kicking Gettler.	dkf	Feb 2013	#144
What court found him guilty of lying?	morningfog	Feb 2013	#149
Here	dkf	Feb 2013	#150
Did you read that? Do you understand civil suits?	morningfog	Feb 2013	#152
He was charged with making false accusations.	dkf	Feb 2013	#153
He was not found guilty of lying in a court.	morningfog	Feb 2013	#154
So why did he need to clear his name?	dkf	Feb 2013	#159
You are changing the question.	morningfog	Feb 2013	#160
You say I can't say he was found guilty of lying by a court.	dkf	Feb 2013	#163
The court found there was not sufficient evidence to overturn the administrative decision.	morningfog	Feb 2013	#164
Vandalizing (graffiti) their locations does not help any cause.	Fla_Democrat	Feb 2013	#108
I hope they apprehend him and stop him from hurting anyone else.	darkangel218	Feb 2013	#118
Agree 100%. nt	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#119
He thinks that killing people will help him restore his "good name."	tblue37	Feb 2013	#126
in the America I grew up in...	dtom67	Feb 2013	#128
Yes, yes you're right, the real victim here isn't Monica Quan, it's Chris Dorner.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#134
How you took that from what the other poster said is incomprehensible.	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2013	#141
The person said that we don't know that he's guilty, and won't know	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#143
Characterization. We can read what others write. Upthread you accuse me of putting words in	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2013	#155
Honestly, your story was so disturbing I didn't know how to react.	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#156
And it was that passivity and silence that I found objectionable. Yet you claimed I put words	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2013	#165
I am not your monkey. nt	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#166
Talk about putting words into the mouth of another. When response fails you, you accuse others.	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2013	#170
Yes, you say something and then try to grade the responses because they did not	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#171
His victims had no chance of surrender, either.	randome	Feb 2013	#135
We have To Find Reasons To Hate This Clown	DemocratSinceBirth	Feb 2013	#131
If you hate this guy and assume he killed them (because of his own admission)	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#136
The line in the OP reminded me of this:	ButterflyBlood	Feb 2013	#161
Well, Chik Fil-A has fewer supporters here than Dorner does. nt	geek tragedy	Feb 2013	#162
K&ring this	obamanut2012	Feb 2013	#167

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