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sibelian

(7,804 posts)
153. Goodness, I don't know about you but I would be simply OVERJOYED.
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:35 PM
Feb 2013

"Sob...! Thank you, kind masters!"
There are theories that Dresden was bombed in revenge for the bombing of Coventry, hedgehog Feb 2013 #1
IIRC the idea in both was also diverting resources. Robb Feb 2013 #6
One result of the bombing was that people who lost their civilian jobs (say at a local bake shop) hedgehog Feb 2013 #9
Try "no danger to those doing the bombing" for starters. nt kelliekat44 Feb 2013 #220
It was to help prevent the risk of of an underground movement dipsydoodle Feb 2013 #8
Wrong. Confusious Feb 2013 #149
Your reading is selective dipsydoodle Feb 2013 #159
Really, I have a quote from the Third Reich about dresden Confusious Feb 2013 #160
MY reading is selective? rdharma Feb 2013 #163
Citations at the links Confusious Feb 2013 #185
Well I do have the slight advantage dipsydoodle Feb 2013 #164
Yea that was 40 years ago Confusious Feb 2013 #184
"As John Galbraith showed after the war, strategic bombing accomplished little..." Taverner Feb 2013 #121
More here: it's worth knowing about: hedgehog Feb 2013 #148
Well, it certainly wasn't in revenge for the innocent civilians murdered in the camps. aquart Feb 2013 #178
Two books on this: Destruction of Dresden and Slaughter House Five. broiles Feb 2013 #2
I've read Slaughter House Five a long time ago. I guess I should go back and reread. n/t Cleita Feb 2013 #7
Slaughter House Five rdharma Feb 2013 #11
German American Humanist.... Junkdrawer Feb 2013 #15
The only good consequence of the bombing of Dresden ... DreamGypsy Feb 2013 #209
So you want a formal declaration of war? randome Feb 2013 #3
This is sort of my point. We aren't at war, so we shouldn't be bombing them. Cleita Feb 2013 #4
I don't understand. ProSense Feb 2013 #18
Au contrare I'm not justifying it. I'm just saying if you are buying Cleita Feb 2013 #24
"limits civilian casualties" sibelian Feb 2013 #68
Don't forget theaocp Feb 2013 #151
Goodness, I don't know about you but I would be simply OVERJOYED. sibelian Feb 2013 #153
Dresden was wrong even during a time of War JI7 Feb 2013 #21
Yes, it was. It was shameful, which is what makes the drone strikes Cleita Feb 2013 #25
We haven't had a declared war since WWII Bake Feb 2013 #165
It was wrong back then and it's still wrong. n/t Cleita Feb 2013 #166
Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #5
The Dresden bombing was intentional terrorism...... rdharma Feb 2013 #10
So are these drone strikes IMHO. Cleita Feb 2013 #13
I agree....... rdharma Feb 2013 #34
No it wasn't Confusious Feb 2013 #155
That is why the city caught fire like it did. rdharma Feb 2013 #161
Another straw man? Confusious Feb 2013 #187
I stated the facts. Nothing more. rdharma Feb 2013 #192
That article was wikipedia. It cites sources. Confusious Feb 2013 #193
History Channel - This Day in History rdharma Feb 2013 #204
It's been a while since I would trust anything the history channel has Confusious Feb 2013 #206
Yea, we firebombed bombed a lot of cities. rdharma Feb 2013 #210
You're just going to hold onto it no matter what Confusious Feb 2013 #211
Churchill withdrew original memo. rdharma Feb 2013 #215
Got any holocaust pictures you want to post? Confusious Feb 2013 #216
rail lines and the communication lines were destroyed rdharma Feb 2013 #218
I didn't post that picture because they were transporting jews Confusious Feb 2013 #221
Guess those refugees were afraid the Soviets might want revenge aquart Feb 2013 #179
I've been asking this question in relation to the assassination of malaise Feb 2013 #12
Yes, he did and with all the on the streets reporting we were getting then, nary Cleita Feb 2013 #14
Look Western governments have slaughtered citizens of other countries malaise Feb 2013 #22
We had a Panamanian student at the college where I was teaching at the time Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2013 #72
Just for the sake of accuracy, George H.W. Bush arrested Noriega. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #84
My bad malaise Feb 2013 #87
I appreciate it when people correct me on my many mistakes. I never know whether JDPriestly Feb 2013 #139
I'm like you malaise Feb 2013 #147
I agree. I like the fact that Obama is not conceited like most poiticians. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #175
Like you I find human rights violations troubling malaise Feb 2013 #176
as you note, the death toll was horrific cali Feb 2013 #16
The comparison comes more from the point that we were actually at war with Germany. Cleita Feb 2013 #19
"We were supposed to hate all Germans" ProSense Feb 2013 #23
So we kill their citizens and this is them cooperating? Cleita Feb 2013 #26
They are cooperating ProSense Feb 2013 #29
We are killing their citizens as collateral damage. Cleita Feb 2013 #31
Who is making ProSense Feb 2013 #32
We certainly didn't find it acceptable. Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #105
You keep seeming to insist that Cleita is justifying Dresden. Jackpine Radical Feb 2013 #36
What then is ProSense Feb 2013 #38
I guess if your child gets killed or his legs blown off because you were in the wrong Cleita Feb 2013 #40
Were the people in Dresden in the wrong place at the wrong time? ProSense Feb 2013 #41
I don't know where you are but you could be in the wrong place at the wrong Cleita Feb 2013 #46
That makes no sense. ProSense Feb 2013 #47
Absolutely nothing, but you have picked on a few words in my discussion and ignored every context Cleita Feb 2013 #49
The comparison between Dresden and drone strikes is ridiculous. n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #52
So would you prefer Mai Lai? Cleita Feb 2013 #54
Just this: Jackpine Radical Feb 2013 #42
There was ProSense Feb 2013 #44
I guess you and I have a different definition of rationalization. Cleita Feb 2013 #48
You say it as if ProSense Feb 2013 #50
No it isn't. It's been in the military language for a long time. n/t Cleita Feb 2013 #51
The OP is not concerned about what you say. Cleita Feb 2013 #74
The Dresden raids were not conducted by Germany's allies. JVS Feb 2013 #17
No they weren't which gives us even less credibility than in bombing Germany Cleita Feb 2013 #20
Drone strikes are far more precise and kill lots fewer innocent civilians? FarCenter Feb 2013 #27
Really, did anyone say that? Cleita Feb 2013 #28
The AGM-114 Hellfire missile has a less than 20 lb high explosive warhead. FarCenter Feb 2013 #35
And how many innocent civilians who died in bombing deaths have to stand on the head Cleita Feb 2013 #37
Really? One innocent death is as bad as 25,000 (not 250K per earlier post)? geek tragedy Feb 2013 #124
Exactly treestar Feb 2013 #79
Phosphorous. That's nasty. Were the Germans upset to lose so many of their women and children? aquart Feb 2013 #89
Dreden was a war crime. former9thward Feb 2013 #30
I agree and I think killing innocent citizens in countries Cleita Feb 2013 #33
That is true. former9thward Feb 2013 #39
That ship sailed long ago, since practically every Pashtun has a blood feud with the US FarCenter Feb 2013 #43
well, i guess that means we have to kill them all, then. to be safe, you know. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #82
How so? Confusious Feb 2013 #150
So now if you oppose the incineration of civilians you are a "pro-nazi". former9thward Feb 2013 #168
Seems I can't have a discussion here without straw men Confusious Feb 2013 #183
Yes, you know more about the bombing than Churchill. former9thward Feb 2013 #190
That depends on what you are referring too Confusious Feb 2013 #194
My post was very specific. former9thward Feb 2013 #195
Yea, Churchill withdrew that memo Confusious Feb 2013 #198
Now you are relying on support of a man many considered to be a war criminal. former9thward Feb 2013 #219
He's not a war criminal Confusious Feb 2013 #222
You think you know more about it than Churchill..... former9thward Feb 2013 #223
Politicians are frequently wrong Confusious Feb 2013 #224
No Difference - Question Is - What Kind Of Society Do We Want To Be - Benevolent Or Terrorist? cantbeserious Feb 2013 #45
Dresden was bombed - as were other cities - to break the will of the German People MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #53
All rationalizations with no foundation in facts, just military delusions. Cleita Feb 2013 #55
The Germans were responsible for tens of millions of deaths MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #56
I always felt that WWII was more honorable than the subsequent wars, which Cleita Feb 2013 #57
1. Civilian Germans, though not guiltless, were not the S.S. 2. The SOVIET Army WinkyDink Feb 2013 #63
By "sacrifices of the Soviet people" you mean the civilians murdered by the Germans as they advanced aquart Feb 2013 #90
Yes, I do. Again: The Russians weren't murdered by German citizens, but by soldiers. WinkyDink Feb 2013 #144
The people of Dresden were also murdered by soldiers. aquart Feb 2013 #177
How do you know "it worked"? Vattel Feb 2013 #91
The war to stop Germany, taken as a whole, worked MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #92
You are trying to claim that one mass killing was okay, because there were others. WinkyDink Feb 2013 #145
That's not quite what I'm saying MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #167
Yup. Roosevelt refused to take in fleeing Jewish refugees, too. Sent them back to die. aquart Feb 2013 #180
So you don't know if the bombing was justified. Vattel Feb 2013 #173
Justified. aquart Feb 2013 #181
And would there have been a mean peep without fire-bombing innocents? Vattel Feb 2013 #182
War crimes, nonetheless, whatever the "beliefs." WinkyDink Feb 2013 #59
What if it was necessary to successfully end the war? MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #61
And if it were not? WinkyDink Feb 2013 #65
See "The Fog of War"--a documentary about Robert McNamara Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2013 #75
The Bombing of Dresden is indefensible. Now what? Drones are okay? WinkyDink Feb 2013 #58
Not according to me. Cleita Feb 2013 #60
Or El Chorillo (Panama), for that matter. DollarBillHines Feb 2013 #62
And don't forget Grenada malaise Feb 2013 #81
WWII was about getting a nation to surrender. The drones are not about getting to surrender. HereSince1628 Feb 2013 #64
By proving we had the technology and the will quaker bill Feb 2013 #66
I fear we have institutionalized the mechanism for war without end HereSince1628 Feb 2013 #77
That is one theory. quaker bill Feb 2013 #88
Good points, HereSince1628. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #85
Clean war Ian Iam Feb 2013 #67
Jesus and guns jimgggg Feb 2013 #69
Thanks. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #86
Last time I checked, the Germans love us today. WonderGrunion Feb 2013 #70
You are really conflating Europeans, whom most Americans have Cleita Feb 2013 #71
Do they, now? sibelian Feb 2013 #73
First of all, anyone old enough to remember World War II at all is 73 years old Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2013 #76
They are actually far worse (I hate to say) BlueStreak Feb 2013 #78
Yes. Cleita Feb 2013 #80
Dresden was 2,200,000 percent worse. sofa king Feb 2013 #83
The number of Dresden deaths cited in that article is suspect MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #93
What happened ProSense Feb 2013 #94
More Jews were slaughtered during those three days than Dresdeners MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #95
I get your thinking: It's OK to kill 20,000 civilians to stop Hitler. Right? ProSense Feb 2013 #96
It's less awful for 20,000 innocents to die than for multiples of that to die. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #98
Actually, ProSense Feb 2013 #99
If we can't agree on something as simple as fewer deaths is better than more deaths, MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #100
OK ProSense Feb 2013 #101
Are carpet bombing or extrajudicial assasinations our only two options here? MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #102
Drone strikes cause fewer deaths than carpet bombing a city. Do you agree? ProSense Feb 2013 #103
You say that like it's the only two options. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #106
Since ProSense Feb 2013 #107
Prosense: "Was the Internment brutally wrong?" MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #108
"But apparently it wasn't unconstitutional." ProSense Feb 2013 #109
I can't believe you two missed this. sofa king Feb 2013 #110
Drone strikes kill far, far fewer people, and cause comparatively minimal physical damage. baldguy Feb 2013 #97
+1 Cary Feb 2013 #104
Everybody seems to think it's not so bad because the numbers are fewer? Really? I'm seeing this Cleita Feb 2013 #111
Would you rather have three or four divisions of Marines invade? baldguy Feb 2013 #112
Medea Benjamin said it best. Cleita Feb 2013 #115
Please spell out the process for arresting someone who's hiding out in a region of the world baldguy Feb 2013 #137
That's why there is that organization known as Interpol. Cleita Feb 2013 #138
What part of "no governmental authorities" do you not understand? baldguy Feb 2013 #152
So you don't think neighboring countries could send in investigators into places like Cleita Feb 2013 #154
Dumber than a sack of hammers. baldguy Feb 2013 #169
I think the other question is whether it was effective in ending the war more quickly... CTyankee Feb 2013 #114
Terrorizing innocent civilians is not winning us friends and Americans will Cleita Feb 2013 #116
It is always a risk and has happened. But the fact is that the Germans today don't CTyankee Feb 2013 #120
Yes, this is the eye for an eye crowd. They will avenge wrongs done to them. Cleita Feb 2013 #122
This line of thought always makes me uncomfortable. What happened in Japan and CTyankee Feb 2013 #125
There isn't. It's wrongful deaths in both instances of people who happened Cleita Feb 2013 #126
Didn't we also fire bomb Tokyo? CTyankee Feb 2013 #113
Here is something on it Cleita Feb 2013 #118
So let's put a few war criminals on trial for a start, for setting up torture camps just1voice Feb 2013 #117
I agree and I'm still of the hope that our war criminals will be brought to justice in the future. Cleita Feb 2013 #119
Dresden was a war crime--indiscriminate bombing designed geek tragedy Feb 2013 #123
Again the numbers? Cleita Feb 2013 #127
No it isn't. Jeebus. Arithmetic tells us that one lost life is preferable to geek tragedy Feb 2013 #128
It's that kind of thinking that leads to this kind of Cleita Feb 2013 #129
Are you aware that proportionality is one of the foundations geek tragedy Feb 2013 #130
Who makes up the laws? It doesn't make them morally right. Cleita Feb 2013 #132
Since when does your version of morality come from God's hand? nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #133
There is no version here. It's a universal that murder is wrong. Every tribe, religion and nation in Cleita Feb 2013 #135
It's also more generally recognized that 25,000 innocent lives geek tragedy Feb 2013 #136
Tell that to the innocents who were killed in the bombing of Dresden. Occulus Feb 2013 #141
Try reading my post again, then consider whether geek tragedy Feb 2013 #146
I think the people who survived the holocaust would. Confusious Feb 2013 #158
Hmmm.... The Inquisition comes to mind. Also, Aztec human sacrifice (16th C.). WinkyDink Feb 2013 #140
It was still considered wrong by the majority of people and by history. n/t Cleita Feb 2013 #142
Religion has ever engaged in brutality to enforce its whims. Occulus Feb 2013 #143
I agree! As we have clearly seen in many ways, mankind perverts religion for power. WinkyDink Feb 2013 #197
But killing the "other" is OK Confusious Feb 2013 #157
They don't. Not really. Maybe some institutions like religions sanction it, but Cleita Feb 2013 #162
Carthage Confusious Feb 2013 #186
So you agree, war is evil. Cleita Feb 2013 #188
The Aztecs weren't taking willing victims Confusious Feb 2013 #189
Please read up on the Aztecs. The prisoners of war taken also were given a Cleita Feb 2013 #191
Yea, don't think so Confusious Feb 2013 #196
I gave you a source and many who study the Aztecs don't agree with you considering much Cleita Feb 2013 #199
No you didn't Confusious Feb 2013 #201
My apologies. Here's your link. Cleita Feb 2013 #202
Well I will agree some were willing Confusious Feb 2013 #203
Cultural differences. Cleita Feb 2013 #205
We already are Confusious Feb 2013 #207
That's a very defeatist attitude. We seemed to have been Cleita Feb 2013 #208
I think of it a reality Confusious Feb 2013 #214
Your kind of thinking is a fantasy world Confusious Feb 2013 #156
Well, there is that little matter of orders of magnitude less infrastructure kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #131
One wrongful death is one too many. Cleita Feb 2013 #134
The bombing of Dresden, while horrible, War Horse Feb 2013 #170
What I really think is that instead of considering dealing with terrorists as a police action, Cleita Feb 2013 #171
Then I misread your OP and we are in agreement on several points War Horse Feb 2013 #174
The Allies leveled Dresden indiscriminately. Drone strikes damage individual targets. nt bluestate10 Feb 2013 #172
Karma for killing innocents, but "not on purpose"? G_j Feb 2013 #200
There is one enormous, undeniable, irrefutable, incontrovertible difference.... DreamGypsy Feb 2013 #212
No nor can you change what happened at Hiroshima, Nagasaki, My Lai and Falluja, Cleita Feb 2013 #213
Exactly. DreamGypsy Feb 2013 #217
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