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In reply to the discussion: Eve Ensler on the passivity of men [View all]bettyellen
(47,209 posts)28. On the basis that they get all dismissive, pissy and make it
As if its all about them personally.
Call it derailing, or gaslighting but a common reaction of good men is to take offense and of quibble instead of considering that there's a lot of truth to what women are trying to tell you.
Instead of supporting or listening to women, we had a whole lot of threads from men about how THEY are good guys, and only sociopaths rape, so it's inevitable. You know, the nice guy way of telling us to STFU about it.
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all you have to do is look at societal conditioning and the difference we treat male and female
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#10
Our culture is awash to the gunwales with female sexuality and hypersexuality
Fumesucker
Feb 2013
#14
womens sexuality is only used to promote and give to, entertain and validate mens sexuality
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#15
If a man shows one iota of vulnerability in our culture he's dead meat walking
Fumesucker
Feb 2013
#16
i have never asked for a "white knight". i do expect commen decency and that is not gender
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#227
I don't believe that for a sec. Even if a study says it. I'm over 50; I've pretty much got a handle
Honeycombe8
Feb 2013
#22
Dear Eve: Don't assume that the majority of Men are not outraged by the action of rape...
BlueJazz
Feb 2013
#4
I think men need to do more than actually discuss. They need to take action.
Luminous Animal
Feb 2013
#126
thank you. but the best? they get to shed the conditioning and stereotypes given to men,
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#315
i think it is a possibility if a man really wants to see. absolutely. i think even more so
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#354
I tend to hang around with good people...those that it's hard to say an unkind word about or..
BlueJazz
Feb 2013
#398
I totally agree with her, but I'm not impressed by her 'awareness' raising methods, which seem
ancianita
Feb 2013
#5
On what basis is she assuming men aren't angry about rape and humiliation of women?
Bucky
Feb 2013
#11
Ironic sidenote: I'm a bad man and a horrid human being and I'm *still* anti-rape
Bucky
Feb 2013
#13
Well said. Many posts in this thread perfectly illustrate the factuality of your post. nt
Zorra
Feb 2013
#288
They probably refuse to discuss the topic because it began with an implicit attack.
Hosnon
Feb 2013
#374
True- quite a few of the men here have explained their non support due to bitterness....
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#421
i am thinking rape as a tool in war. the other side "protecting" while raping and vice versa.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#34
According to the DOJ, .84 people per thousand (aged 12 and over) are raped each year.
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2013
#402
The repetitive, redundant omnipresent observation that most criminals are men depends on the premise
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2013
#457
Juvenile insults like "take your posts to a shrink" or "That is delusional"?
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2013
#476
What does "Using your tenure as a juror to insult fellow members" mean?
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2013
#479
actually, there is a rebirth to the feminist movement with our young of both genders. so your
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#177
like there is any expectation of you being knowledge about the subject, having invested a single
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#204
dont want your help. really. if you do not have it in you, who the fuck cares. BUT... do not
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#234
we are not talking about you. again, no expectation. we are talking about the men that get it,
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#251
The men who school us on tone have a problem accepting how whiney they come off.
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#441
all the talk about failed relationships and anger at random women is "reasonable discussion"?
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#483
no, I was replying to your claim that men who lack the capability for empathy and support are
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#486
You still don't make sense. I made no claims of the nature you describe or conjure.
Eleanors38
Feb 2013
#487
could you clarify this about what "new narrative" might be- if not asking for support and empathy...
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#488
Men are now expected to take an activist role when once they were expected to remain in the b.g.
Eleanors38
Feb 2013
#489
if having common decency is "being an activist" (huh?) is way too much for ask then the good man
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#490
Shrill, LOL. Smirks? You have quite the thin skin, and fevered imagination... but I knew that after
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#492
as I said before, empathy and support. your post is complete gibberish that has nothing to do with
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#482
I thought only HS boys skulked around girls they do not want to be friends with .....
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#30
ohhh, redqueen. say it sister. that is a very concise, clear way to explain it.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#121
LOL, it says a lot that a bad joke from a bad sitcom would be flogged to death for decades
redqueen
Feb 2013
#282
I've had countless discussions about this issue... (the 'joke that no one takes seriously) according
redqueen
Feb 2013
#335
"Lonely people who feel cheated? That's entitlement. No one is owed a romantic relationship."
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
Feb 2013
#383
People also don't know how to use the word "momentarily" correctly
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
Feb 2013
#366
ROFL...perfect! I thought the "nice guy / friend zone" thing was by now so universally mocked
alcibiades_mystery
Feb 2013
#196
WTF kind of response does he expect- explicit permission to look the other way?
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#32
+1. Men are going to have to start having a conversation with other men to address their feelings.
WCLinolVir
Feb 2013
#185
At least one man here acknowledged he learned his old school sex role from Dad...
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#341
bah hahahahah. you bad feminist, you have RUINED our society. now, where do we hear this talk?
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#222
Why would I react as if this was about me? I'm not so self centered or paranoid.
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#73
Self-centered in the sense that we're telling you that the OP is wrong about us.
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2013
#48
Push back with sad stories about how random women weren't kind to you? Seriously?
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#167
i dunno. i am thinking a woman being raped would be at least level playing field with angst.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#178
it is called common decency not gender specific. let go of the white knight and you are a step
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#231
how easily SOME men can chuck oh, common decency, standing up for fellow man, ect...
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#255
it was the women that pushed and pushed to make prison rape jokes NOT acceptable on du, by men
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#49
Well then maybe it would be appropriate to ask Eve which kind of guys she's not yelling at.
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2013
#60
Yeah, maybe the ones who don't take it personally are just more likely to keep their mouths shut.
redqueen
Feb 2013
#127
Equating irritation with obnoxious OP with Republican's movement against reproductive rights?
Bonobo
Feb 2013
#149
you interpret it so narrowly as " OP with Republican's movement against"? fine.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#151
i am certainly saying that we have men on the democratic board that have sexist/misogynist
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#154
i think the 70'a and 80's. part of 90's were progressively moving forward. i think mid 90's
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#160
i do see a lot of change. hate and anger that was not there in the past. feelings of not needed,
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#180
we disagree. i think with independence and freedoms and choice, came the anger like we hadnt seen.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#226
That was the intent of the quote in the OP. However, some on this thread are taking it all the way..
Buzz Clik
Feb 2013
#221
yes... we have some men taking it to mean ALL men, regardless how many times people tell them
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#238
then correct buzz. he called out women saying SOME women were saying ALL men. that is wrong. SOME
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#322
No, you're misinterpreting Ensler...if you were familiar with her work, you'd know that.
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#338
I'll never be familiar enough with *anyone* to substitute my own words for theirs.
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2013
#342
Yes it could. On a more pragmatic level, imagine how much more productive this thread would have
Hosnon
Feb 2013
#372
This thread is a testament to the quote being "rhetorically counterproductive". nt.
Hosnon
Feb 2013
#370
I am serious about this: consider the quality of the men with whom you associate.
Buzz Clik
Feb 2013
#78
Associate with? Please, I have briefly socialized and worked with dozens of assholes who say and
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#84
first he says it is so prevalent he would have little time to do anything else. now there is no
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#148
Yes, Buzz said he sees no sexism ever, then he does, now it's "no problem"...
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#172
ah, well we had a really stupid rape joke pass muster with jury just last night.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#181
Over 40 yrs., and the same approach. But the power & glory of righteousness...
Eleanors38
Feb 2013
#452
"Feminists view all men as the enemy... the sooner some men grasp this the sooner the movement dies"
redqueen
Feb 2013
#276
you finally acknowledge you hear this shit all the fuckin time and if you bothered you would have
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#147
There seems to be an assumption that all men hear (or particpate in) rape jokes. Not true.
DisgustipatedinCA
Feb 2013
#81
Great post. About a week ago, I was having lunch with a group and one guy was saying how
raccoon
Feb 2013
#157
no. you used war as an example of male "protective" to their death. rape used as a tool of war
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#51
because many men get it and know it is not at them personally. because when we were asked the same
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#150
SOME men protect women as much as they can. Some others are the ones women need to be protected FROM
raccoon
Feb 2013
#159
There is no useful purpose served by telling the members of the other gender what they think.
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2013
#47
or, redefinition of rape allowed rates to go down and police force across the nation downgrading
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#53
bullshit. what a fuckin game you play, always. all it was were articles from newspapers across the
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#102
It's not a game. You're alleging that there is a widespread law enforcement conspiracy
Warren DeMontague
Feb 2013
#104
yes, game. articles. that is all it was, articles. and you play games. here are links....
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#108
Police departments go to great lengths to look good on the UCR, the FBI’...federal funding is determ
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#113
So your assertion is that the stats are manipulated *more than* they were 30 years ago.
Warren DeMontague
Feb 2013
#135
"Adjusted crime rates" has to do with a change in data collection methodology
Jackpine Radical
Feb 2013
#61
Which means that MORE rapes would be reported since 1993 under the "adjustment", not fewer.
Warren DeMontague
Feb 2013
#101
We must celebrate you or else you'll be a jackass? You know what that means?
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#76
Society puts up the bad boy image, and that seems to be what the women fawn over.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#186
You're point is some men look the other way because they're resentful that some women make foolish
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#210
and why aren't some women, especially in red states also not outraged. I say this because many of
still_one
Feb 2013
#103
It's hard to think of a better way to alienate people that are already allies. nt
Bonobo
Feb 2013
#242
allies? like starting a thread about not being able to call your daughter baby?
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#260
Like I said,I did NOT call out feminists and I don't see why you make it about you.
Bonobo
Feb 2013
#278
There is no benefit to meaningfully engage or commit in any way to a female
galileoreloaded
Feb 2013
#162
You want no engagement or commitment unless the person is dependent on you?
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#175
You said engagement and commitment aren't worth it if the woman is not depending on the man.
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#236
I am finding it to be that committment only comes when they are dependent on you
Puzzledtraveller
Feb 2013
#220
yes some men are saying this, but does not make a lick of sense. if men have checked out, then why
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#176
Here's one woman who goes by the ACTIONS not the words. I'm sure there are plenty others. nt
raccoon
Feb 2013
#350
+1. The problem with generalizations like this OP is that only one counterexample proves them wrong.
Nye Bevan
Feb 2013
#285
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
Gormy Cuss
Feb 2013
#381
but you are judging the act.... and that does incur the penalty or repercussion. my point is....
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#320
secretly thrive ... acts within 50 Shades, including stuff that appears to be without consent. RAPE
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#387
menz are so confused with rape. some girls, at some time, have said no and they really wanted it
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#391
it is fuckin' in meta. fuckin' sick shit. sorry. this gets me shaking when we have someone
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#395
Regardless of what a woman purchases for her pleasure, it's never appropriate to assume
msanthrope
Feb 2013
#401
Because we're supposed to take it for granted self identifying liberals support us?
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#356
And sitting on a fence hurts the crotch! Middle of the road has dead skunks!!!
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#420
what an excellent post, and all in the thinking about it. can i be an ally. support your voice
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#427