Do you trust the Presidency regardless of occupant with such power? (Reply #203)

In the discussion thread: Remember how FDR executed American Nazi sympathizers? [View all]

Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #154)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:33 AM

203. Do you trust the Presidency regardless of occupant with such power?

If not then you do not get to make any one human an exception to our form of law and government, Obama is a human, we are not supposed to hang by "trust" in a personality and then extends that "trust" effectively without end or enforceable or even verifiable boundary or limits as an inherent outcome of said "trust".

I think this is crazytown territory.

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum

Replies to this discussion thread

278 replies	Author	Time	Post
Remember how FDR executed American Nazi sympathizers? [View all]	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	OP
We didn't,	Sekhmets Daughter	Feb 2013	#1
I updated to make my point clearer.	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#3
But FDR DID Drop Bombs on them...	OneAngryDemocrat	Feb 2013	#234
This is most definitely about "Americans in America"!	xtraxritical	Feb 2013	#239
Post removed	Post removed	Feb 2013	#2
Yes! Perhaps if he had, we'd have won the war. Nt	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#5
And the Bush family would be extinct.	LiberalFighter	Feb 2013	#12
...	leftstreet	Feb 2013	#18
correct that vile branch of destruction would have been extinguished	Vincardog	Feb 2013	#27
DUzy!	SunSeeker	Feb 2013	#84
Yes, but to be fair, old Joe Kennedy shared their sympathies n/t	markpkessinger	Feb 2013	#211
Henry Ford too. n/t	Cary	Feb 2013	#227
Yeah, ain't it kind of funny	malthaussen	Feb 2013	#230
Hi Manny!	tblue	Feb 2013	#116
And hello to you too!	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#151
And you have 'liberal' in your username	leftstreet	Feb 2013	#8
Are you serious? You are against Habeus?	grahamhgreen	Feb 2013	#72
Yes! It would give Obama cover!	MotherPetrie	Feb 2013	#128
What about internment camps without trial?	JaneyVee	Feb 2013	#4
Ignore those. WWII was a good war. n/t	ProSense	Feb 2013	#7
At least it was a war, not an occupation	leftstreet	Feb 2013	#9
Bush invaded and occupied Iraq. Obama ended that.	ProSense	Feb 2013	#14
Wiki: List of Foreign Military Bases in the US	leftstreet	Feb 2013	#17
Yes the Germans have a base in the US, it is part of Holloman Air Force Base	happyslug	Feb 2013	#249
Mostly they allow for medical flights and coverage....	Historic NY	Feb 2013	#40
the us is still in iraq.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#108
We still have American troops in Germany.	tclambert	Feb 2013	#61
and a defined theater and declared enemies.	TheKentuckian	Feb 2013	#144
My point is that war throughout history has always been oppressive and f**ked up.	JaneyVee	Feb 2013	#13
who are we at war with now?	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#131
Al-Qaeda. Hopefully be over soon.	JaneyVee	Feb 2013	#162
fail. there is no such thing as 'war' with an organization. war is a conflict between states or	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#167
That still does not rise to summary execution	hootinholler	Feb 2013	#59
People died in those camps.	JaneyVee	Feb 2013	#64
It's awful that people died in those camps	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#70
They were killed by Govt soldiers.	JaneyVee	Feb 2013	#81
no, actually, most of the people that died died from routine causes.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#140
But more innocent Americans were killed by Govt soldiers than innocent Americans by drone	JaneyVee	Feb 2013	#161
actually, three american citizens have been killed by drones.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#169
not of torture, typhus or starvation, however.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#79
No, they were killed by armed guards with guns.	JaneyVee	Feb 2013	#83
'several'. not enough to make the death rate higher than the death rate in the general population.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#135
That's 1 more than innocent Americans killed by drone.	JaneyVee	Feb 2013	#164
you don't know who was innocent, or even what those killed supposedly did. not to mention	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#166
120,000 resident aliens and citizens of Japanese ancestry were interned.	OnyxCollie	Feb 2013	#236
you forgot the US territory of hawaii, with about 150,000 persons of japanese ancestry.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#240
The US territory of Hawaii	OnyxCollie	Feb 2013	#241
yes, if 1/3 of the population of hawaii had been interned, the economy would have been	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#242
Yes, your point stands.	OnyxCollie	Feb 2013	#245
i don't disagree. as do the rationalizations of obama's assassination policy based on specious	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#247
That's cool.	OnyxCollie	Feb 2013	#255
They were deprived of their freedom.	backscatter712	Feb 2013	#193
about those Internment Camps:	bvar22	Feb 2013	#238
The Japanese never had it easy.	OnyxCollie	Feb 2013	#243
The War against the Japanese was horribly racist in origin, promotion, propaganda, and execution.	bvar22	Feb 2013	#256
it was. my stepfather participated in the rounding up of japanese for internmen. i was astonished	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#266
The Japanese internment	OnyxCollie	Feb 2013	#268
interesting. so was the thesis in the past, or are you still writing it? what was the focus?	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#269
Aside from a few revisions, it's finished.	OnyxCollie	Feb 2013	#274
sounds highly interesting.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#275
Answer:	ProSense	Feb 2013	#6
I'm not surprised you approve of internment camps. Yet they are not executions.	rug	Feb 2013	#34
I'm not surprised at that silly comment. n/t	ProSense	Feb 2013	#39
I'm not surprise at the attempted snark.	rug	Feb 2013	#41
The point was silly, but it's understandable you're sticking to it. n/t	ProSense	Feb 2013	#42
yours is silly. interning people is worse than executing them without trial? what?	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#63
I think we're	ProSense	Feb 2013	#87
i think your defense of the president's supposed power to kill anyone, anywhere, secretly,	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#127
Really?	backscatter712	Feb 2013	#191
How can you defend the end of Habeus? Does not every person have the right to face their accuser?	grahamhgreen	Feb 2013	#74
Lalalalala	Egalitarian Thug	Feb 2013	#208
Attack of the Clones in 3....2...1	kenny blankenship	Feb 2013	#10
You only missed it by 4 posts.	bahrbearian	Feb 2013	#15
How can you say conclusively that he didn't?	great white snark	Feb 2013	#11
Because we have George Bush as evidence.	bahrbearian	Feb 2013	#16
Great answer!	Th1onein	Feb 2013	#20
Here's how we did it	XRubicon	Feb 2013	#19
Um, yes?	alcibiades_mystery	Feb 2013	#21
They were active saboteurs, not just sympathizers nt	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#22
Oh, right...and you forgot...not American	alcibiades_mystery	Feb 2013	#26
It's always a problem when	ProSense	Feb 2013	#30
I wish FDR was more evil, then we wouldn't have to worry about the BFFE.	bahrbearian	Feb 2013	#46
IIRC, one was a US citizen	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#33
So you are OK with executing "active saboteurs" but not those working with Al Qaeda to attack us?	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#35
I'm not OK with executing Americans without judicial due process	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#38
I'm not OK with it either. And it DID happen under FDR	cali	Feb 2013	#43
I trust that FDR was working to do the right thing	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#45
Wait,	ProSense	Feb 2013	#55
Yes, I trust that FDR was doing his best to do the right thing	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#60
What about the lynchings? Also,	ProSense	Feb 2013	#159
First off, health care was a fraction of the cost it is today,	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#163
FDR, as representative of the state, interned wakasa. he didn't target him personally for	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#195
I'll say whatever I please here, hi	cali	Feb 2013	#216
yet you keep telling others what to do. ps: i never said the internment didnt destroy lives --	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#246
FDR did target Yamamoto. Personally... - n/t.	lapfog_1	Feb 2013	#228
The commander of the japanese military. during a declared war.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#244
And we should have declared war... but not on a country.	lapfog_1	Feb 2013	#262
We are in agreement. And that is IMO what is happening.	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#58
The memo is clear that the targets do not need to be involved	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#65
I'm going to do a larger segment on this during my next show but to give a preview...	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#77
It should be sorted out in much less than decades	jberryhill	Feb 2013	#85
In a previous show, I called on the administration to come up with a post drone solution to the	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#112
Who were the two Americans who decided to be al Qaeda?	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#90
It's your OP. If you dont think anyone was killed we dont have much to talk about. nt	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#91
That's not what I said. Nt.	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#93
I know, you want to play games instead of address the difficult questions. Its understandable. nt	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#98
No, you're putting words in my mouth nt	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#120
Case in point. nt	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#125
Anwar al-Aulaqi's son was 16 when killed by drone...	druidity33	Feb 2013	#110
Yup, Griswolds safe. Muslims who speak out against US foreign policy? They might not feel so safe.	Bonobo	Feb 2013	#133
They are not only targeting people involved in active plots.	limpyhobbler	Feb 2013	#277
You have the wrong metaphor. Al-Awlaki was a Tokyo Rose-type propagandist, not a combatant	leveymg	Feb 2013	#82
That is one contention, the other is that he was involved in operational planning.	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#89
Wouldn't that be better established in open court?	leveymg	Feb 2013	#101
Sure, and as I said above, if they were in the capital of Saudi Arabia or Egypt or Jordan or any	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#105
We knew exactly where he was, and there's nobody aside from maybe the Russian President who we truly	leveymg	Feb 2013	#117
How is one an unobtainable fugitive with no US charges filed?	TheKentuckian	Feb 2013	#186
Hear, hear!	malthaussen	Feb 2013	#233
If they're out sniffing bat shit in a cave, who cares?	Scootaloo	Feb 2013	#205
I've explained why that matters multiple times now, I doubt that argument is new to you. nt	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#224
+1 nt	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#122
...and from my readings on this: none were in combat they were	KoKo	Feb 2013	#235
The CIA has stepped over a threshhold by executing US Citizens abroad who aren't armed and	leveymg	Feb 2013	#237
Attack of the history lesson. n/t	ProSense	Feb 2013	#28
except they got some kind of due process.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#66
EXACTLY!	grahamhgreen	Feb 2013	#69
Military tribunals	alcibiades_mystery	Feb 2013	#71
as prisoners of a declared war on a specific country. so usual wartime protocol, i think.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#75
Usual wartime protocol?	alcibiades_mystery	Feb 2013	#86
unanimous vote, however.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#178
But not normal wartime protocol...FDR invented the tribunal for this specific case on July 2, 1942	alcibiades_mystery	Feb 2013	#182
i'm not trying to win an argument. you think obama killing anyone he wants is ok. i don't.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#183
Excuse me, sir	alcibiades_mystery	Feb 2013	#185
i wasn't attacking you at all. i was stating what i understood your position to be.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#187
You understood wrong	alcibiades_mystery	Feb 2013	#188
i don't care. your tone was uncalled for.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#190
You basically called the person a supporter of murder. That justifies a lot of tone. nt	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#231
Spies. That's a whole nother thing altogether.	tblue	Feb 2013	#121
Lord Hee-Haw	exboyfil	Feb 2013	#23
Here is audio archives of his war propaganda	mucifer	Feb 2013	#36
Did he get a trial?	kenny blankenship	Feb 2013	#49
Well, yes, but that messes up the point	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#54
No.	Rex	Feb 2013	#24
Talk to George Takei about how awesome they were to Japanese Americans	catbyte	Feb 2013	#25
did they kill them without trial?	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#68
Mortaliy rates in camps very high. That's death without trial, esp. hard hit were	catbyte	Feb 2013	#76
What were the rates?	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#94
actually not. rates of morbidity and mortality were comparable to rates in the general	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#100
Very interesting.	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#129
I met a Japanese-American couple who had been interned in a camp	Art_from_Ark	Feb 2013	#199
and i knew a japanese college professor who'd been interned -- who didn't. yes, those facts	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#202
My point was that even if morbidity and mortality were roughly equal	Art_from_Ark	Feb 2013	#204
i'm well aware of that. the area near where i grew up was once covered with japanese truck	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#207
Plantation labor	Art_from_Ark	Feb 2013	#265
i found this about another camp in the same area, 'jerome'.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#270
I actually visited the Jerome site, back in 1998 I think	Art_from_Ark	Feb 2013	#271
And his response was to hate the US forever?	jberryhill	Feb 2013	#88
If he did	DonCoquixote	Feb 2013	#29
To the Excuse Crew bringing up Japanese internment...	Marr	Feb 2013	#31
I thought the same thing	quinnox	Feb 2013	#37
uh, grab a clue: The OP used FDR to indict Obama. It's historically inaccuarate	cali	Feb 2013	#44
It's been brought up as a defense.	Marr	Feb 2013	#48
I think it goes like this	alcibiades_mystery	Feb 2013	#51
So FDR executed Americans without habeas corpus or trial	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#53
Yes,	ProSense	Feb 2013	#57
No, he didn't	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#62
That clears it up rather well, thank you. I think we're done, now.	cheapdate	Feb 2013	#115
How is it revisionist?	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#50
Of course they are. There is nothing inexcusable as any excuse will do.	Egalitarian Thug	Feb 2013	#210
I confess to thinking Prescott might have been a good example.	WinkyDink	Feb 2013	#32
Lame.	MineralMan	Feb 2013	#47
Executing Americans	JEB	Feb 2013	#52
Internment camps wrong does not equal drones are ok.	Kalidurga	Feb 2013	#56
+1	lunasun	Feb 2013	#170
Washington did the same thing in 1776!	grahamhgreen	Feb 2013	#67
It seems you're talking about Obama here, so perhaps you should define 'sympathizer'	RZM	Feb 2013	#73
Was al-Alwaki proven to be an al Qaeda member?	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#78
Is it proven that MannyGoldstein and ThirdwayManny are the same person?	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#80
That's why we have courts and due process	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#92
The Japanese soldier got due process? What if it had been an American of Japanese descent and the	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#95
Awkward deflect there Leser. Al-Awlaki never held a gun, as far as we know. Again, wrong metaphor	leveymg	Feb 2013	#97
Is it? You want me to tell you the mindset and daily activities of someone 10000 miles away?	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#102
You don't know who al-Awlaki was because that's classified. But, it's clear what his role was,	leveymg	Feb 2013	#113
Wikipedia disagrees with you. Apparently you are not as well informed as you think	stevenleser	Feb 2013	#124
Is Wiki the extent of your research? Why start with events in 2006?	leveymg	Feb 2013	#139
Here's a NYT story about the FBI taking an interest in him going back to 1999 and his 9/11 hijackers	leveymg	Feb 2013	#156
You didn't clarify what you mean by 'sympathizer'	RZM	Feb 2013	#104
Thank you!	treestar	Feb 2013	#217
I'm an FDR Dem, & possibly infused with Teddy Repub	KakistocracyHater	Feb 2013	#96
Both parties have become unhinged from the 99%, and unhinged from reality and evidence	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#136
And Third Party Manny finally makes an appearance...nt	SidDithers	Feb 2013	#179
yes the "leaders" have lost their minds	KakistocracyHater	Feb 2013	#212
We didn't try the ones that joined German Army and shot at us	SpartanDem	Feb 2013	#99
Remember when he firebombed the city of Dresden killing 25,000 people?	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#103
in a declared war on a specific country. as opposed to an undeclared war on 'enemies' anywhere	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#106
Oh! Got ya'.	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#107
What's 25,000 people?	ProSense	Feb 2013	#111
That's the 'official' count. Some believe 600,000 died.	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#114
far from trying to 'explain away' anything, i'm explaining the difference between the firebombing	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#123
You're right. There is a difference...	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#126
Wouldn't it be wild if	ProSense	Feb 2013	#130
I guess DU would be fine with another war...	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#137
We're no more in favor of more war than you're in favor of	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#141
Didn't the	ProSense	Feb 2013	#142
Not according to the courts that heard the case	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#145
So, if the Supreme Court rules drones are okay, you'll be okay with it too?	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#147
The drones are not the problem	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#153
If they rule Obama is perfectly within his rights...	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#158
So you supported the Internment? n/t	ProSense	Feb 2013	#149
No. Constitutional does not equal right.	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#152
So FDR was wrong? n/t	ProSense	Feb 2013	#155
He was certainly wrong sometimes.	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#157
Was the Internment brutally wrong? n/t	ProSense	Feb 2013	#160
In my opinion, yes.	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#165
"But apparently it wasn't unconstitutional."	ProSense	Feb 2013	#168
So, basically, do nothing?	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#146
No.	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#150
We don't know exactly what the process has been...	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#154
Do you trust the Presidency regardless of occupant with such power?	TheKentuckian	Feb 2013	#203
Meh...	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#206
Bullshit, a logical construct based on present trust in Obama and a rhetorical trick	TheKentuckian	Feb 2013	#273
Why do I think that if Pres Obama was carpet bombing Iran, you would support it? nm	rhett o rick	Feb 2013	#189
i agree, more died at dresden than in obama's assassinations. however, that's really quite	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#148
Not very secret apparently.	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#171
after the fact. nameless body counts.	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#172
Isn't that how it generally works?	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#173
that's how it works in war. but this is not war; it's a president declaring he has the power to	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#180
So, it comes back to you being okay with it if Obama declares war...	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#181
massive fight with who?	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#184
Whoever you're angry over us droning.	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#192
no, who would we be fighting a war with if we weren't doing covert war? who is this 'al qaeda'?	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#197
Hopefully we don't fight 'em...	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#198
I have beachfront property in Waziristan, just waiting for you....	Democracyinkind	Feb 2013	#213
I'm not uninformed. I support it.	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#214
If you'd bother to actually read about the subject, you'd know that most America-hating	Democracyinkind	Feb 2013	#215
I don't think you understand.	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#251
I do understand.	Democracyinkind	Feb 2013	#252
So, ignore 'em? Let 'em fester?	Drunken Irishman	Feb 2013	#253
Then maybe	sulphurdunn	Feb 2013	#260
Yes. And that was part of an effort to break Germany's will	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#118
"Awful stuff, awful. But perhaps less awful than the alternatives."	ProSense	Feb 2013	#119
Should the US have attacked Germany? Nt	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#132
Could you imagine if a drone could have taken out Hitler and his top officials?	ProSense	Feb 2013	#134
Droning Hitler would be fine.	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#138
The policy was NOT to target Hitler. There was no help given assassination attempts.	leveymg	Feb 2013	#222
TARDIS	bobduca	Feb 2013	#226
K&R (n/t)	a2liberal	Feb 2013	#109
Empires behave in ways democracies really don't.	nadinbrzezinski	Feb 2013	#143
Remember when FDR put 125,000 Japanese Americans into Internment Camps?...nt	SidDithers	Feb 2013	#174
Remember when FDR developed atomic weapons?... nt	SidDithers	Feb 2013	#175
This message was self-deleted by its author	SidDithers	Feb 2013	#176
Remember when FDR refused to invite Jesse Owens to the White House, 'cause he was black?...nt	SidDithers	Feb 2013	#177
No I dont remember and I am old and I doubt you remember. Do you have a point Sid? nm	rhett o rick	Feb 2013	#194
Remember when he had a warship turn around to go pick up his dog?	RZM	Feb 2013	#218
Ok Manny, which of your multiple personalities is speaking here?	rhett o rick	Feb 2013	#196
Manny destroys the rationale of these wannabe autocrats so easily	LittleBlue	Feb 2013	#200
well said!!!!	robinlynne	Feb 2013	#201
A sympathizer is not the same as someone actively plotting and participating....	Duppers	Feb 2013	#209
Remember how FDR killed 23 American POWs in Hirosima?	JoePhilly	Feb 2013	#219
That' a very misleading title.	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#221
FDR provided the means.	JoePhilly	Feb 2013	#225
I believe that the question is narrower than	MannyGoldstein	Feb 2013	#248
That's not very accurate.	JoePhilly	Feb 2013	#250
FDR signed an EO to imprison law-abiding citizens	obamanut2012	Feb 2013	#220
No, but I do remember how Nazis executed FDR sympathizers	Zorra	Feb 2013	#223
I start out with my strong opinion about the memo.	Cary	Feb 2013	#229
There are some rather odd things about al-awlaki's bio. this video is interesting for a little	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#267
Maybe, but you're suggesting something above my pay grade	Cary	Feb 2013	#272
Your experience with espionage and intrigue doesn't include the knowledge that intelligence	HiPointDem	Feb 2013	#278
We should demand to see the immigration paperwork of the 10k nazis they allowed to become Americans	Sunlei	Feb 2013	#232
Yep. We won that war by complaining about our enemies over the internet.	Buzz Clik	Feb 2013	#254
Another question:	Kelvin Mace	Feb 2013	#257
The Age Of 9/11: A riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. With double-plus bipartisanship.	blkmusclmachine	Feb 2013	#258
Better start running the government by the ideals that you taught me.	WHEN CRABS ROAR	Feb 2013	#259
No internment camps	sulphurdunn	Feb 2013	#261
Remember how McCarthy era executed commie sympathizers	tama	Feb 2013	#263
I love a fucking mystery!	lonestarnot	Feb 2013	#264
I consider FDR the #2 president of all time, however, What about the Japanese?	graham4anything	Feb 2013	#276

Edit History

Please login to view edit histories.