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TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)

203. Do you trust the Presidency regardless of occupant with such power?

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:33 AM

Feb 2013

If not then you do not get to make any one human an exception to our form of law and government, Obama is a human, we are not supposed to hang by "trust" in a personality and then extends that "trust" effectively without end or enforceable or even verifiable boundary or limits as an inherent outcome of said "trust".

I think this is crazytown territory.

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Remember how FDR executed American Nazi sympathizers? [View all] MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 OP

We didn't, Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #1

I updated to make my point clearer. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #3

But FDR DID Drop Bombs on them... OneAngryDemocrat Feb 2013 #234

This is most definitely about "Americans in America"! xtraxritical Feb 2013 #239

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #2

Yes! Perhaps if he had, we'd have won the war. Nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #5

And the Bush family would be extinct. LiberalFighter Feb 2013 #12

... leftstreet Feb 2013 #18

correct that vile branch of destruction would have been extinguished Vincardog Feb 2013 #27

DUzy! SunSeeker Feb 2013 #84

Yes, but to be fair, old Joe Kennedy shared their sympathies n/t markpkessinger Feb 2013 #211

Henry Ford too. n/t Cary Feb 2013 #227

Yeah, ain't it kind of funny malthaussen Feb 2013 #230

Hi Manny! tblue Feb 2013 #116

And hello to you too! MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #151

And you have 'liberal' in your username leftstreet Feb 2013 #8

Are you serious? You are against Habeus? grahamhgreen Feb 2013 #72

Yes! It would give Obama cover! MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #128

What about internment camps without trial? JaneyVee Feb 2013 #4

Ignore those. WWII was a good war. n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #7

At least it was a war, not an occupation leftstreet Feb 2013 #9

Bush invaded and occupied Iraq. Obama ended that. ProSense Feb 2013 #14

Wiki: List of Foreign Military Bases in the US leftstreet Feb 2013 #17

Yes the Germans have a base in the US, it is part of Holloman Air Force Base happyslug Feb 2013 #249

Mostly they allow for medical flights and coverage.... Historic NY Feb 2013 #40

the us is still in iraq. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #108

We still have American troops in Germany. tclambert Feb 2013 #61

and a defined theater and declared enemies. TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #144

My point is that war throughout history has always been oppressive and f**ked up. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #13

who are we at war with now? HiPointDem Feb 2013 #131

Al-Qaeda. Hopefully be over soon. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #162

fail. there is no such thing as 'war' with an organization. war is a conflict between states or HiPointDem Feb 2013 #167

That still does not rise to summary execution hootinholler Feb 2013 #59

People died in those camps. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #64

It's awful that people died in those camps MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #70

They were killed by Govt soldiers. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #81

no, actually, most of the people that died died from routine causes. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #140

But more innocent Americans were killed by Govt soldiers than innocent Americans by drone JaneyVee Feb 2013 #161

actually, three american citizens have been killed by drones. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #169

not of torture, typhus or starvation, however. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #79

No, they were killed by armed guards with guns. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #83

'several'. not enough to make the death rate higher than the death rate in the general population. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #135

That's 1 more than innocent Americans killed by drone. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #164

you don't know who was innocent, or even what those killed supposedly did. not to mention HiPointDem Feb 2013 #166

120,000 resident aliens and citizens of Japanese ancestry were interned. OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #236

you forgot the US territory of hawaii, with about 150,000 persons of japanese ancestry. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #240

The US territory of Hawaii OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #241

yes, if 1/3 of the population of hawaii had been interned, the economy would have been HiPointDem Feb 2013 #242

Yes, your point stands. OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #245

i don't disagree. as do the rationalizations of obama's assassination policy based on specious HiPointDem Feb 2013 #247

That's cool. OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #255

They were deprived of their freedom. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #193

about those Internment Camps: bvar22 Feb 2013 #238

The Japanese never had it easy. OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #243

The War against the Japanese was horribly racist in origin, promotion, propaganda, and execution. bvar22 Feb 2013 #256

it was. my stepfather participated in the rounding up of japanese for internmen. i was astonished HiPointDem Feb 2013 #266

The Japanese internment OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #268

interesting. so was the thesis in the past, or are you still writing it? what was the focus? HiPointDem Feb 2013 #269

Aside from a few revisions, it's finished. OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #274

sounds highly interesting. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #275

Answer: ProSense Feb 2013 #6

I'm not surprised you approve of internment camps. Yet they are not executions. rug Feb 2013 #34

I'm not surprised at that silly comment. n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #39

I'm not surprise at the attempted snark. rug Feb 2013 #41

The point was silly, but it's understandable you're sticking to it. n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #42

yours is silly. interning people is worse than executing them without trial? what? HiPointDem Feb 2013 #63

I think we're ProSense Feb 2013 #87

i think your defense of the president's supposed power to kill anyone, anywhere, secretly, HiPointDem Feb 2013 #127

Really? backscatter712 Feb 2013 #191

How can you defend the end of Habeus? Does not every person have the right to face their accuser? grahamhgreen Feb 2013 #74

Lalalalala Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #208

Attack of the Clones in 3....2...1 kenny blankenship Feb 2013 #10

You only missed it by 4 posts. bahrbearian Feb 2013 #15

How can you say conclusively that he didn't? great white snark Feb 2013 #11

Because we have George Bush as evidence. bahrbearian Feb 2013 #16

Great answer! Th1onein Feb 2013 #20

Here's how we did it XRubicon Feb 2013 #19

Um, yes? alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #21

They were active saboteurs, not just sympathizers nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #22

Oh, right...and you forgot...not American alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #26

It's always a problem when ProSense Feb 2013 #30

I wish FDR was more evil, then we wouldn't have to worry about the BFFE. bahrbearian Feb 2013 #46

IIRC, one was a US citizen MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #33

So you are OK with executing "active saboteurs" but not those working with Al Qaeda to attack us? stevenleser Feb 2013 #35

I'm not OK with executing Americans without judicial due process MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #38

I'm not OK with it either. And it DID happen under FDR cali Feb 2013 #43

I trust that FDR was working to do the right thing MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #45

Wait, ProSense Feb 2013 #55

Yes, I trust that FDR was doing his best to do the right thing MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #60

What about the lynchings? Also, ProSense Feb 2013 #159

First off, health care was a fraction of the cost it is today, MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #163

FDR, as representative of the state, interned wakasa. he didn't target him personally for HiPointDem Feb 2013 #195

I'll say whatever I please here, hi cali Feb 2013 #216

yet you keep telling others what to do. ps: i never said the internment didnt destroy lives -- HiPointDem Feb 2013 #246

FDR did target Yamamoto. Personally... - n/t. lapfog_1 Feb 2013 #228

The commander of the japanese military. during a declared war. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #244

And we should have declared war... but not on a country. lapfog_1 Feb 2013 #262

We are in agreement. And that is IMO what is happening. stevenleser Feb 2013 #58

The memo is clear that the targets do not need to be involved MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #65

I'm going to do a larger segment on this during my next show but to give a preview... stevenleser Feb 2013 #77

It should be sorted out in much less than decades jberryhill Feb 2013 #85

In a previous show, I called on the administration to come up with a post drone solution to the stevenleser Feb 2013 #112

Who were the two Americans who decided to be al Qaeda? MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #90

It's your OP. If you dont think anyone was killed we dont have much to talk about. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #91

That's not what I said. Nt. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #93

I know, you want to play games instead of address the difficult questions. Its understandable. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #98

No, you're putting words in my mouth nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #120

Case in point. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #125

Anwar al-Aulaqi's son was 16 when killed by drone... druidity33 Feb 2013 #110

Yup, Griswolds safe. Muslims who speak out against US foreign policy? They might not feel so safe. Bonobo Feb 2013 #133

They are not only targeting people involved in active plots. limpyhobbler Feb 2013 #277

You have the wrong metaphor. Al-Awlaki was a Tokyo Rose-type propagandist, not a combatant leveymg Feb 2013 #82

That is one contention, the other is that he was involved in operational planning. stevenleser Feb 2013 #89

Wouldn't that be better established in open court? leveymg Feb 2013 #101

Sure, and as I said above, if they were in the capital of Saudi Arabia or Egypt or Jordan or any stevenleser Feb 2013 #105

We knew exactly where he was, and there's nobody aside from maybe the Russian President who we truly leveymg Feb 2013 #117

How is one an unobtainable fugitive with no US charges filed? TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #186

Hear, hear! malthaussen Feb 2013 #233

If they're out sniffing bat shit in a cave, who cares? Scootaloo Feb 2013 #205

I've explained why that matters multiple times now, I doubt that argument is new to you. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #224

+1 nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #122

...and from my readings on this: none were in combat they were KoKo Feb 2013 #235

The CIA has stepped over a threshhold by executing US Citizens abroad who aren't armed and leveymg Feb 2013 #237

Attack of the history lesson. n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #28

except they got some kind of due process. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #66

EXACTLY! grahamhgreen Feb 2013 #69

Military tribunals alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #71

as prisoners of a declared war on a specific country. so usual wartime protocol, i think. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #75

Usual wartime protocol? alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #86

unanimous vote, however. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #178

But not normal wartime protocol...FDR invented the tribunal for this specific case on July 2, 1942 alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #182

i'm not trying to win an argument. you think obama killing anyone he wants is ok. i don't. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #183

Excuse me, sir alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #185

i wasn't attacking you at all. i was stating what i understood your position to be. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #187

You understood wrong alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #188

i don't care. your tone was uncalled for. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #190

You basically called the person a supporter of murder. That justifies a lot of tone. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #231

Spies. That's a whole nother thing altogether. tblue Feb 2013 #121

Lord Hee-Haw exboyfil Feb 2013 #23

Here is audio archives of his war propaganda mucifer Feb 2013 #36

Did he get a trial? kenny blankenship Feb 2013 #49

Well, yes, but that messes up the point MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #54

No. Rex Feb 2013 #24

Talk to George Takei about how awesome they were to Japanese Americans catbyte Feb 2013 #25

did they kill them without trial? HiPointDem Feb 2013 #68

Mortaliy rates in camps very high. That's death without trial, esp. hard hit were catbyte Feb 2013 #76

What were the rates? MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #94

actually not. rates of morbidity and mortality were comparable to rates in the general HiPointDem Feb 2013 #100

Very interesting. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #129

I met a Japanese-American couple who had been interned in a camp Art_from_Ark Feb 2013 #199

and i knew a japanese college professor who'd been interned -- who didn't. yes, those facts HiPointDem Feb 2013 #202

My point was that *even if* morbidity and mortality were roughly equal Art_from_Ark Feb 2013 #204

i'm well aware of that. the area near where i grew up was once covered with japanese truck HiPointDem Feb 2013 #207

Plantation labor Art_from_Ark Feb 2013 #265

i found this about another camp in the same area, 'jerome'. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #270

I actually visited the Jerome site, back in 1998 I think Art_from_Ark Feb 2013 #271

And his response was to hate the US forever? jberryhill Feb 2013 #88

If he did DonCoquixote Feb 2013 #29

To the Excuse Crew bringing up Japanese internment... Marr Feb 2013 #31

I thought the same thing quinnox Feb 2013 #37

uh, grab a clue: The OP used FDR to indict Obama. It's historically inaccuarate cali Feb 2013 #44

It's been brought up as a defense. Marr Feb 2013 #48

I think it goes like this alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #51

So FDR executed Americans without habeas corpus or trial MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #53

Yes, ProSense Feb 2013 #57

No, he didn't MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #62

That clears it up rather well, thank you. I think we're done, now. cheapdate Feb 2013 #115

How is it revisionist? MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #50

Of course they are. There is nothing inexcusable as any excuse will do. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #210

I confess to thinking Prescott might have been a good example. WinkyDink Feb 2013 #32

Lame. MineralMan Feb 2013 #47

Executing Americans JEB Feb 2013 #52

Internment camps wrong does not equal drones are ok. Kalidurga Feb 2013 #56

+1 lunasun Feb 2013 #170

Washington did the same thing in 1776! grahamhgreen Feb 2013 #67

It seems you're talking about Obama here, so perhaps you should define 'sympathizer' RZM Feb 2013 #73

Was al-Alwaki proven to be an al Qaeda member? MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #78

Is it proven that MannyGoldstein and ThirdwayManny are the same person? stevenleser Feb 2013 #80

That's why we have courts and due process MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #92

The Japanese soldier got due process? What if it had been an American of Japanese descent and the stevenleser Feb 2013 #95

Awkward deflect there Leser. Al-Awlaki never held a gun, as far as we know. Again, wrong metaphor leveymg Feb 2013 #97

Is it? You want me to tell you the mindset and daily activities of someone 10000 miles away? stevenleser Feb 2013 #102

You don't know who al-Awlaki was because that's classified. But, it's clear what his role was, leveymg Feb 2013 #113

Wikipedia disagrees with you. Apparently you are not as well informed as you think stevenleser Feb 2013 #124

Is Wiki the extent of your research? Why start with events in 2006? leveymg Feb 2013 #139

Here's a NYT story about the FBI taking an interest in him going back to 1999 and his 9/11 hijackers leveymg Feb 2013 #156

You didn't clarify what you mean by 'sympathizer' RZM Feb 2013 #104

Thank you! treestar Feb 2013 #217

I'm an FDR Dem, & possibly infused with Teddy Repub KakistocracyHater Feb 2013 #96

Both parties have become unhinged from the 99%, and unhinged from reality and evidence MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #136

And Third Party Manny finally makes an appearance...nt SidDithers Feb 2013 #179

yes the "leaders" have lost their minds KakistocracyHater Feb 2013 #212

We didn't try the ones that joined German Army and shot at us SpartanDem Feb 2013 #99

Remember when he firebombed the city of Dresden killing 25,000 people? Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #103

in a declared war on a specific country. as opposed to an undeclared war on 'enemies' anywhere HiPointDem Feb 2013 #106

Oh! Got ya'. Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #107

What's 25,000 people? ProSense Feb 2013 #111

That's the 'official' count. Some believe 600,000 died. Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #114

far from trying to 'explain away' anything, i'm explaining the difference between the firebombing HiPointDem Feb 2013 #123

You're right. There is a difference... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #126

Wouldn't it be wild if ProSense Feb 2013 #130

I guess DU would be fine with another war... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #137

We're no more in favor of more war than you're in favor of MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #141

Didn't the ProSense Feb 2013 #142

Not according to the courts that heard the case MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #145

So, if the Supreme Court rules drones are okay, you'll be okay with it too? Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #147

The drones are not the problem MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #153

If they rule Obama is perfectly within his rights... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #158

So you supported the Internment? n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #149

No. Constitutional does not equal right. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #152

So FDR was wrong? n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #155

He was certainly wrong sometimes. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #157

Was the Internment brutally wrong? n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #160

In my opinion, yes. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #165

"But apparently it wasn't unconstitutional." ProSense Feb 2013 #168

So, basically, do nothing? Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #146

No. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #150

We don't know exactly what the process has been... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #154

Do you trust the Presidency regardless of occupant with such power? TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #203

Meh... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #206

Bullshit, a logical construct based on present trust in Obama and a rhetorical trick TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #273

Why do I think that if Pres Obama was carpet bombing Iran, you would support it? nm rhett o rick Feb 2013 #189

i agree, more died at dresden than in obama's assassinations. however, that's really quite HiPointDem Feb 2013 #148

Not very secret apparently. Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #171

after the fact. nameless body counts. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #172

Isn't that how it generally works? Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #173

that's how it works in war. but this is not war; it's a president declaring he has the power to HiPointDem Feb 2013 #180

So, it comes back to you being okay with it if Obama declares war... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #181

massive fight with *who*? HiPointDem Feb 2013 #184

Whoever you're angry over us droning. Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #192

no, who would we be fighting a war with if we weren't doing covert war? who is this 'al qaeda'? HiPointDem Feb 2013 #197

Hopefully we don't fight 'em... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #198

I have beachfront property in Waziristan, just waiting for you.... Democracyinkind Feb 2013 #213

I'm not uninformed. I support it. Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #214

If you'd bother to actually read about the subject, you'd know that most America-hating Democracyinkind Feb 2013 #215

I don't think you understand. Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #251

I do understand. Democracyinkind Feb 2013 #252

So, ignore 'em? Let 'em fester? Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #253

Then maybe sulphurdunn Feb 2013 #260

Yes. And that was part of an effort to break Germany's will MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #118

"Awful stuff, awful. But perhaps less awful than the alternatives." ProSense Feb 2013 #119

Should the US have attacked Germany? Nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #132

Could you imagine if a drone could have taken out Hitler and his top officials? ProSense Feb 2013 #134

Droning Hitler would be fine. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #138

The policy was NOT to target Hitler. There was no help given assassination attempts. leveymg Feb 2013 #222

TARDIS bobduca Feb 2013 #226

K&R (n/t) a2liberal Feb 2013 #109

Empires behave in ways democracies really don't. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #143

Remember when FDR put 125,000 Japanese Americans into Internment Camps?...nt SidDithers Feb 2013 #174

Remember when FDR developed atomic weapons?... nt SidDithers Feb 2013 #175

This message was self-deleted by its author SidDithers Feb 2013 #176

Remember when FDR refused to invite Jesse Owens to the White House, 'cause he was black?...nt SidDithers Feb 2013 #177

No I dont remember and I am old and I doubt you remember. Do you have a point Sid? nm rhett o rick Feb 2013 #194

Remember when he had a warship turn around to go pick up his dog? RZM Feb 2013 #218

Ok Manny, which of your multiple personalities is speaking here? rhett o rick Feb 2013 #196

Manny destroys the rationale of these wannabe autocrats so easily LittleBlue Feb 2013 #200

well said!!!! robinlynne Feb 2013 #201

A sympathizer is not the same as someone actively plotting and participating.... Duppers Feb 2013 #209

Remember how FDR killed 23 American POWs in Hirosima? JoePhilly Feb 2013 #219

That' a very misleading title. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #221

FDR provided the means. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #225

I believe that the question is narrower than MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #248

That's not very accurate. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #250

FDR signed an EO to imprison law-abiding citizens obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #220

No, but I do remember how Nazis executed FDR sympathizers Zorra Feb 2013 #223

I start out with my strong opinion about the memo. Cary Feb 2013 #229

There are some rather odd things about al-awlaki's bio. this video is interesting for a little HiPointDem Feb 2013 #267

Maybe, but you're suggesting something above my pay grade Cary Feb 2013 #272

Your experience with espionage and intrigue doesn't include the knowledge that intelligence HiPointDem Feb 2013 #278

We should demand to see the immigration paperwork of the 10k nazis they allowed to become Americans Sunlei Feb 2013 #232

Yep. We won that war by complaining about our enemies over the internet. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #254

Another question: Kelvin Mace Feb 2013 #257

The Age Of 9/11: A riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. With double-plus bipartisanship. blkmusclmachine Feb 2013 #258

Better start running the government by the ideals that you taught me. WHEN CRABS ROAR Feb 2013 #259

No internment camps sulphurdunn Feb 2013 #261

Remember how McCarthy era executed commie sympathizers tama Feb 2013 #263

I love a fucking mystery! lonestarnot Feb 2013 #264

I consider FDR the #2 president of all time, however, What about the Japanese? graham4anything Feb 2013 #276