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nick of time

(651 posts)
209. And it's people like you that make it so difficult
Fri Feb 1, 2013, 05:42 PM
Feb 2013

to have an honest debate on how to get meaningful laws passed.
And I mean both sides of the issue.

If I'm standing next to someone with an open carry weapon displayed, I'm going to be RKP5637 Feb 2013 #1
Yeah,it would freak me out and I would wonder how safe they are. libtodeath Feb 2013 #2
And if a restaurant, bar, business establishments, no way am I going to hang around. RKP5637 Feb 2013 #3
And I wouldn't go back either. tblue Feb 2013 #77
~*~*~*~* Who Who Whovian has LEFT the BUILDING!!!! ~*~*~*~* NYC_SKP Feb 2013 #344
They are certainly doing it as intimidation, although the yahoos are usually too stupid or callous Hoyt Feb 2013 #4
They are promoting fear. kentuck Feb 2013 #16
Exactly libtodeath Feb 2013 #20
It is. It's psychological abuse of some sort. tblue Feb 2013 #79
Agreed. Euphoria Feb 2013 #217
I want open carry, so I decide which public places I won't use. nt patrice Feb 2013 #29
K&R !!! RKP5637 Feb 2013 #32
I feel concealed-carry violates my right to self-determination of what's responsible behavior. nt patrice Feb 2013 #34
Yep, excellent point. I would much rather be next to an open-carry than a concealed-carry so RKP5637 Feb 2013 #41
I can't trust the purpose of a weapon that's hidden. That purpose could be ANYTHING. Open carry patrice Feb 2013 #49
OC doesn't make it clear to me it for protection. Sheepshank Feb 2013 #167
Thank You raidert05 Feb 2013 #184
If it is hidden how would you know? n/t doc03 Feb 2013 #216
I want neither. tblue Feb 2013 #80
I thought over the years we had become more civilized. All of this gun stuff is really RKP5637 Feb 2013 #94
You mean like the encouraging of shooting people doing what is nick of time Feb 2013 #95
That too! n/t RKP5637 Feb 2013 #98
Thank you. nick of time Feb 2013 #99
Yep, you're welcome, and what you say is quite true! RKP5637 Feb 2013 #100
You never got the idea of sarcasm in grade school did you? Whovian Feb 2013 #197
Sorry, after reading your transparency page, nick of time Feb 2013 #202
I'll stand by every one of the posts you mention. Whovian Feb 2013 #231
If they were all within the bounds of civility, nick of time Feb 2013 #235
Did you read them? A hide takes three randomly selected peop;e Whovian Feb 2013 #254
Wrong. nick of time Feb 2013 #257
I think you mean your op was satire. It doesn't qualify as either cali Feb 2013 #224
While You are Absolutely Right About Your Self-Determination w/ Concealed Carry dballance Feb 2013 #88
Ian Stawicki is one who had a permit. Zimmerman had a permit. Loughner was legal. Hoyt Feb 2013 #131
Thanks for answering my question. dballance Feb 2013 #331
Given that there are literally millions of CCW permit holders... Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #172
If many more were killed, you'd still need your guns. Hoyt Feb 2013 #334
Nope. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #337
^^^This^^^ nick of time Feb 2013 #342
100% agree. FLyellowdog Feb 2013 #51
Open Carry is not PC on DU. I have to wonder if concealed carry isn't contributing to the patrice Feb 2013 #63
Sure as hell isn't... bobclark86 Feb 2013 #147
Interesting thought rbixby Feb 2013 #151
Some states keep annual statistics. GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #322
Are you talking about legal concealed carry or... Bay Boy Feb 2013 #241
If gun owners have a right to decisions about their security, don't non-gun owners have the patrice Feb 2013 #45
+1000 TeamPooka Feb 2013 #125
To me it's a sign of cowardice. Marr Feb 2013 #76
Agreement with you kairos12 Feb 2013 #210
+1 doc03 Feb 2013 #230
How do you feel about being surrounded by concealed weapons? Starboard Tack Feb 2013 #180
No way! n/t RKP5637 Feb 2013 #189
Makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable also, nick of time Feb 2013 #193
I was in a store just the other day and started wondering who around me might be RKP5637 Feb 2013 #196
I sometimes wonder also, nick of time Feb 2013 #200
Yep, and that all makes perfectly good and responsible sense to me! RKP5637 Feb 2013 #256
That's how I feel too. Starboard Tack Feb 2013 #310
And around here we get random shootings, someone just starts shooting someone ... or someone sitting RKP5637 Feb 2013 #314
I feel for you. Starboard Tack Feb 2013 #327
I find it very unnerving... CherokeeDem Feb 2013 #258
I drive cross country sometimes, and I'm not picking on any state or anything, but sometimes RKP5637 Feb 2013 #296
That makes as much sense as "shoot everyone wearing gang colors for implied threat" onenote Feb 2013 #5
Yeah, 'cause a red jersey is just as dangerous as a Bushmaster... Aristus Feb 2013 #19
No. Because a gangbanger who may well have a concealed weapon onenote Feb 2013 #35
"...are pretty much bound to use it." Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #6
Rational, no. satyrical yes. Whovian Feb 2013 #201
Far be it from me to discriminate against satyrs. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #208
That's what SYG and Castle Laws are all about. jpak Feb 2013 #7
Worse. It's legalized lynching. onehandle Feb 2013 #13
And shooting someone for open carrying, nick of time Feb 2013 #17
In SYG states, if the shooter feels his/her life is threatened then it's OK jpak Feb 2013 #30
Bullshit. nick of time Feb 2013 #36
In Florida, carrying a box of Skittles and an Ice Tea is considered at threat jpak Feb 2013 #303
Once again, bullshit nick of time Feb 2013 #305
From what dime store did you get your law degree? onenote Feb 2013 #38
Yup. tblue Feb 2013 #83
Nope. nick of time Feb 2013 #85
So you want to stop gun HappyMe Feb 2013 #8
Hey, the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Aristus Feb 2013 #23
You start dick punching someone open carrying nick of time Feb 2013 #31
If he is open carrying, PLARS1999 Feb 2013 #40
Good one. nick of time Feb 2013 #43
It's the fight violence with more violence meme that's all the rage! Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #24
sigh! HappyMe Feb 2013 #25
Mainly, he wants to stir up shit with OPs that he can then disown muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #56
Good grief! HappyMe Feb 2013 #61
I am very open to discussion. Whovian Feb 2013 #205
And it's people like you that make it so difficult nick of time Feb 2013 #209
Don't pretend this OP is 'open to discussion' muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #283
This message was self-deleted by its author EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #9
Your society? nick of time Feb 2013 #14
You're right. I sometimes post before thinking. Deleted. nt EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #86
Thank you. nick of time Feb 2013 #90
Lots of things are legal that are best not done. Hoyt Feb 2013 #140
While I agree with you that alot of things are legal that shouldn't be done. nick of time Feb 2013 #146
Well then, how do you feel about some yahoo who checks his gun before strapping it on when Hoyt Feb 2013 #155
No I don't believe they're even thinking about shooting someone. nick of time Feb 2013 #158
Ahh hell with it... sarisataka Feb 2013 #10
how are you going to shoot them... actslikeacarrot Feb 2013 #11
You want to shoot someone for doing something that is nick of time Feb 2013 #12
How about instead mokawanis Feb 2013 #18
I have no problem with that, nick of time Feb 2013 #21
Pretty wild that this makes sense to you. NCTraveler Feb 2013 #15
Reality doesn't always make sense. The point is: does this happen? nt patrice Feb 2013 #122
Does what happen? NCTraveler Feb 2013 #152
What are your thoughts about gang culture? nt patrice Feb 2013 #154
Love it. nt NCTraveler Feb 2013 #156
Too bad that can cost some people their lives, like the young inauguration participant killed the patrice Feb 2013 #174
Another deep thought from Whovian. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #22
+1 onenote Feb 2013 #39
Yep..."deep" in the "bring your chest waders and a shovel" sense. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #57
Makes more sense than shooting someone for being in your driveway. nt patrice Feb 2013 #26
This post advocates murder. cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #27
Agree pintobean Feb 2013 #28
True. & I apologize for my 2-cents-worth. I won't be deleting & I oppose murder. nt patrice Feb 2013 #33
3-3. I wasn't the first pintobean Feb 2013 #37
So now I guess it's ok nick of time Feb 2013 #42
I've had threads locked for far, far less derby378 Feb 2013 #44
Admin still has a say. pintobean Feb 2013 #46
If OP had an ounce of decency nick of time Feb 2013 #50
Check his transparency page ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2013 #52
Whoa. nick of time Feb 2013 #55
Color me gobsmacked. n/t cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #47
Including killing law enforcement obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #315
I know. nick of time Feb 2013 #316
I think that is mentioned in the TOS obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #318
I was but I deleted the mail Union Scribe Feb 2013 #69
I like to shoot people with my 12MP Olympus Electric Monk Feb 2013 #183
You really are posting some of the most ridiculous stuff. cali Feb 2013 #48
You're basing an anti-gun argument on shooting people? RZM Feb 2013 #53
Certainly indicates how absurd carrying of guns in our society is. Hoyt Feb 2013 #148
Read his transparency page. nick of time Feb 2013 #150
And I think you are concerned about your access to guns. Hoyt Feb 2013 #157
You already know that I don't carry when off my farm. nick of time Feb 2013 #160
Wow.. and i thought i seen it all. darkangel218 Feb 2013 #54
There are certain tools of writing these literalists just can not grasp CBGLuthier Feb 2013 #58
Seems pretty clear to the majority of people here. nick of time Feb 2013 #59
Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #60
Uh huh. nick of time Feb 2013 #62
Given some of his other posts ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2013 #64
You are acting like this hit and run troll is brilliant..... NCTraveler Feb 2013 #67
... HappyMe Feb 2013 #71
I seriously doubt that HappyMe Feb 2013 #65
lololololol actslikeacarrot Feb 2013 #66
There are a group with different political leanings sarisataka Feb 2013 #72
The only thing Swift about the OP Union Scribe Feb 2013 #73
Comparing the OP to Swift?! obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #317
And i always thought that..... Oneka Feb 2013 #68
Maybe what we need is highly selective special permits for Concealed Carry & then only Open Carry patrice Feb 2013 #70
Can't we just sue them for reckless endangerment Motown_Johnny Feb 2013 #74
What reckless endangerment? nick of time Feb 2013 #78
accidents happen, for instance.... Motown_Johnny Feb 2013 #219
He pulled the trigger. nick of time Feb 2013 #228
keep in mind I was responding to a "shoot on sight" OP Motown_Johnny Feb 2013 #237
You're right. nick of time Feb 2013 #240
Can i sue anyone who drives a car for reckless endangerment onenote Feb 2013 #89
^^^This^^^, nick of time Feb 2013 #92
Cars have a legitimate use other than to end lives. Motown_Johnny Feb 2013 #213
Using a car can be reckless. Using a gun can be reckless. onenote Feb 2013 #246
Some lives need ending. guardian Feb 2013 #325
"all the accidental shootings that happen everyday" Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #91
Deer Agree One_Life_To_Give Feb 2013 #75
Can anyone here speak to whether this is the ground of SYG or not? What if 2 Open Carriers patrice Feb 2013 #81
Only if someone actually took their gun out the holster and brandished it hack89 Feb 2013 #104
In terms of the hypothetical examples I used, in a concealed carry situation, what about SYG patrice Feb 2013 #107
SYG claims have to pass a common sense test hack89 Feb 2013 #110
Why isn't anyone in this thread admitting that what you just said could apply to GANGS? nt patrice Feb 2013 #113
Most SYG laws say you must be attacked, or use of force against you must "be imminent". jmg257 Feb 2013 #166
Thanks for this. nt patrice Feb 2013 #178
For a variety of reasons. AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #175
Thanks for the info. Yes, criminals will be criminals. I'm only trying to consider what recourse the patrice Feb 2013 #186
Concealed carry was a compromise. AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #194
I can't imagine why people would want to be in places & with people who are dangerous & NOT patrice Feb 2013 #204
Well, open carry is legal here. AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #251
If advocating outright murder on a public forum Berserker Feb 2013 #82
You really should self delete this OP Lone_Star_Dem Feb 2013 #84
Good luck with your life in prison goals for 2013! justanidea Feb 2013 #87
I truly hope the admins do the right thing. Socal31 Feb 2013 #93
the last alert was a while ago... ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2013 #96
I hope we can get a few answers about SYG, such as the examples in my previous post on SYG above.nt patrice Feb 2013 #103
"Shoot eveyone" "Except for police. Maybe" guardian Feb 2013 #97
You really need an answer? lpbk2713 Feb 2013 #101
Wow. a la izquierda Feb 2013 #102
Let me guess Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #105
I see what you did there, and I will join you in giving the OP an anti-Rec, Pablo Picasso style. slackmaster Feb 2013 #109
That's the most fucked up post I've read on DU this week slackmaster Feb 2013 #106
And then shoot the shooters Throd Feb 2013 #108
Turn on the news, you all, how am I supposed to know whether someone carrying a gun is patrice Feb 2013 #111
Maybe because the carrier is minding their own business and the firearm nick of time Feb 2013 #112
What if I turn my back on a carrier? What if there are several carriers? How do I watch them all? patrice Feb 2013 #117
Well, it it's concealed, nick of time Feb 2013 #119
What if the concealed carrier is another Adam Lanza? patrice Feb 2013 #126
Doubtful. nick of time Feb 2013 #132
You're entitled to think how YOU think & ergo so am I & I think what I do can make a difference in patrice Feb 2013 #134
Of course your entitled to think what you want. nick of time Feb 2013 #135
No! I'm fine with you, nick of time!! & Yes, extremism DOES cause problems, but honest, respectful patrice Feb 2013 #139
Unfortunately nick of time Feb 2013 #143
If it's concealed carry..... Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #123
Q. What are they all so afraid of? A. One another. Ergo, why should I not be afraid of ALL of them? patrice Feb 2013 #129
So, their fear is irrational Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #141
I wonder if the young lady who was blown away in my town lastnight would agree with your rose-tinted patrice Feb 2013 #159
Ok, lets try this another way, see how dedicated you are.. Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #173
Isn't that a background check and registration issue? Why would such stops be "necessary" if there patrice Feb 2013 #190
But, if they save lives Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #214
If they are not fearful -why do they carry? Cause they like the extra weight? jmg257 Feb 2013 #181
Why do one carry a jack in their car? Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #185
YES! they are afraid...the same reason I wear a seatbelt, because I am afraid of an acccident!! jmg257 Feb 2013 #192
you also don't know when someone might poison your food ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2013 #114
One risk does not make another risk acceptable. nt patrice Feb 2013 #118
someone carrying a pistol is no more danger to you ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2013 #121
Seriously???? bongbong Feb 2013 #236
let's see... ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2013 #242
LOL LOL LOL bongbong Feb 2013 #259
nope... i don't have to provide that ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2013 #264
LOL bongbong Feb 2013 #270
you THINK you did... ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2013 #274
LOL bongbong Feb 2013 #276
you are incorrect... ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2013 #281
LOL bongbong Feb 2013 #284
let's see how many more LOL's you can post ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2013 #286
LOL bongbong Feb 2013 #288
you are still incorrect... ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2013 #292
LOL bongbong Feb 2013 #304
and thank you for making my point... ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2013 #306
LOL bongbong Feb 2013 #307
On another board, I was in a discussion about the guy carrying the gun in the JC Penney store. drm604 Feb 2013 #115
So do you agree with the OP that nick of time Feb 2013 #116
No I do not. drm604 Feb 2013 #207
Just asking a question. nick of time Feb 2013 #215
The OP doesn't seem to like guns. drm604 Feb 2013 #323
Maybe. nick of time Feb 2013 #324
The fact that he doesn't like gun people drm604 Feb 2013 #326
Probably not. nick of time Feb 2013 #328
Admittedly, his post was over the top. drm604 Feb 2013 #339
How about the frustration on the other side of the debate? nick of time Feb 2013 #343
I like it! None of this namby-pamby passive-aggressive nonsense JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2013 #120
What. are. guns. for? patrice Feb 2013 #124
Self defense, Offense, nick of time Feb 2013 #127
"Self defense, Offense" i.e. shooting other people with guns. nt patrice Feb 2013 #130
Yes, but not just that, nick of time Feb 2013 #133
True & there is the sporting point. I'm just thinking about what applies to most people, which would patrice Feb 2013 #136
That's a fair point. nick of time Feb 2013 #138
According to the OP, they are "bullet magnets" JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2013 #128
If that was the case.. Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #145
If this OP was directed towards a different group darkangel218 Feb 2013 #137
There's a difference between a group that advocates for the right to marry, or for equality between patrice Feb 2013 #142
Excuse me, but this OP is directed towards LAW ABIDING citizens and "maybe police"!! darkangel218 Feb 2013 #149
When concealed carry is the standard, how do I know whose carrying legally and who isn't, especially patrice Feb 2013 #195
In case my point wasn't clear, some groups are advocating for their own authentic rights & others patrice Feb 2013 #144
Many states already have open carry, is not matter of advocating anything! darkangel218 Feb 2013 #153
I'm FOR open carry, so everyone can make their own decisions about where they are & what they patrice Feb 2013 #170
Out of curiosity Niceguy1 Feb 2013 #226
Was the shooter carrying legally? GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #335
I saw one guy with an open carry weopon and he also had an attitude. Someone asked him if anyone doc03 Feb 2013 #161
You're pretty violent for an anti-gun person. Bake Feb 2013 #162
and what are they going to shoot the carriers with, a trebuchet? dionysus Feb 2013 #165
Don't suggest a hoopak Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #179
Pro-gun, especially public toters, are pretty violent as well. Hoyt Feb 2013 #177
That is an out and out lie. nick of time Feb 2013 #182
That's what hoyt does. Bake Feb 2013 #188
And it's people like him who make it so difficult to have an honest nick of time Feb 2013 #191
Doesn't take a lot to backup fact anyone carrying a gun has a degree of violence. Hoyt Feb 2013 #211
Simple, they carry a gun, they practice with a gun, etc. Non-violent people aren't like that. Hoyt Feb 2013 #206
Another lie. nick of time Feb 2013 #218
You can't walk around with a gun, club, bomb, etc., and claim to be non-violent. Hoyt Feb 2013 #223
Sure you can. nick of time Feb 2013 #234
Non-violent people don't walk out door armed. They may not want to get hurt, but Hoyt Feb 2013 #238
More lies. nick of time Feb 2013 #243
Truth hurts. Hoyt Feb 2013 #247
Whatever you say. nick of time Feb 2013 #253
LOL bongbong Feb 2013 #239
I wouldn't know. nick of time Feb 2013 #245
But they are violent enough to walk around prepared to do so. Hoyt Feb 2013 #252
Whatever you say. nick of time Feb 2013 #255
Really? bongbong Feb 2013 #263
Whatever you say. nick of time Feb 2013 #265
OK! bongbong Feb 2013 #267
Whatever you say. nick of time Feb 2013 #269
OK! bongbong Feb 2013 #271
Whatever you say. nick of time Feb 2013 #278
OK! bongbong Feb 2013 #280
Whatever you say. nick of time Feb 2013 #282
Getting your post count up bongbong Feb 2013 #285
Whatever you say. nick of time Feb 2013 #290
ask your doctor if thorazine is right for you... dionysus Feb 2013 #163
I shoot them on sight just for self defence n/t doc03 Feb 2013 #164
And you'd be going to prison for murder. nick of time Feb 2013 #168
It was for my own protection I felt threatened. n/t doc03 Feb 2013 #212
Just because someone is open carrying is not grounds for feeling nick of time Feb 2013 #222
Another dime store lawyer. onenote Feb 2013 #227
WTF it was sarcasm don't get your panties in a bunch doc03 Feb 2013 #250
Really? How many have you shot in the last year? Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #233
Well I have only seen one I wasn't armed and I figured he was more doc03 Feb 2013 #262
See a gun, call 911 mwrguy Feb 2013 #169
And if it's legal in that state or city, nick of time Feb 2013 #171
Easy to get that bongbong Feb 2013 #244
So you would deliberately provoke a confrontation nick of time Feb 2013 #249
I'm helping secure America bongbong Feb 2013 #266
Whatever you say. nick of time Feb 2013 #268
OK! bongbong Feb 2013 #273
If by "helping secure America" you actually mean... Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #275
LOL bongbong Feb 2013 #279
If you'd made a point that was anything other than utterly ludicrous... Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #291
this one is actually kind of fun(ny) ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2013 #295
True Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #299
nice answer... i like that... ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2013 #301
LOL bongbong Feb 2013 #298
Ironic. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #300
LOL bongbong Feb 2013 #302
Clue: repeating the same fallacy doesn't make it less fallacious. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #308
LOL bongbong Feb 2013 #309
Just out of curiosity, will the professionals show up with a can of beans, a bicycle tire shadowrider Feb 2013 #313
You don't need a gun or two tucked in your pants if you are resourceful. Hoyt Feb 2013 #329
My my my. You seem to assume a lot about me despite never meeting me. shadowrider Feb 2013 #340
Shoot all men for implied threat. krispos42 Feb 2013 #176
Ya hope it's concealed Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #187
Mental note: the key to a high post thread B2G Feb 2013 #198
Good one. nick of time Feb 2013 #203
Hey, I like it! truebluegreen Feb 2013 #199
Satire is a thing often lost on those with modest means between thier ears. Whovian Feb 2013 #220
A young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food. Electric Monk Feb 2013 #229
You haven't a frickin' clue as to what satire is if you think your op is such cali Feb 2013 #232
If you think your post constitutes "satire" or "irony" you need to go back to school onenote Feb 2013 #248
"I dont belive anyone should be shot". darkangel218 Feb 2013 #260
Satire is a thing often lost on bad writers. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #319
I think you need to take a course on satiric lit obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #320
Satire sarisataka Feb 2013 #321
Does that mean they should shoot you for openly threatening to murder them? Taitertots Feb 2013 #221
over 200 replies and 10 recs Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #225
Other than tongue in cheek comments go over your head Whovian Feb 2013 #261
Oh, yea, very little anti-gun messages allowed here. Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #272
Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #277
Another post hidden? nick of time Feb 2013 #287
Ya know, some people just don't get his satire. Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #289
That's for sure. nick of time Feb 2013 #293
Or, apparently, his lexicon. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #294
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. So you have to shoot all the implied threats. Bucky Feb 2013 #297
So, now advocating shooting police for carrying sidearms, huh? obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #311
I am so happy to live in a state with strict gun laws. Apparently, we held out.... Walk away Feb 2013 #312
I live in a state with virtually no gun laws and I've never felt even a little bit threatened cali Feb 2013 #332
You live in a state that barely has a year round pupulation. It's a ridiculous comparison. Walk away Feb 2013 #333
OK. Love how you assume I have a gun. I don't. cali Feb 2013 #338
Message auto-removed tomketchum Feb 2013 #330
Wouldn't that prove their point? Octafish Feb 2013 #336
I realize this is meant as satire, but . . . wpelb Feb 2013 #341
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