General Discussion

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)

186. This makes me happy I don't eat out much anymore.

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 03:37 PM

Jan 2013

No local dining places around where I live anyway. Closest thing is the Chinese place on the corner. So, if I was going out to eat, it would be there. It's one of the few vegetarian friendly places I have found.

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Waitress Who Posted No-Tip Receipt From “Pastor” Customer Fired From Job [View all] Courtesy Flush Jan 2013 OP

Hmm... perhaps the pastor needs to be fired by his "BOSS"..... hlthe2b Jan 2013 #1

Well, I doubt Jesus really needs the money, she probably does. marsis Jan 2013 #84

I think that several people should visit his church Mnpaul Feb 2013 #279

Boycott Applebee's! I hope she gets a far far better job. NYC_SKP Jan 2013 #2

Wish I could boycott Applebee's. There is one a mile from my The Second Stone Jan 2013 #53

Maybe they love tv dinners because your mother marybourg Jan 2013 #76

For me, it's the sodium Kolesar Jan 2013 #213

We COULD call-in take-out orders to the restaurant that fired her. Ian David Jan 2013 #87

. GarColga Jan 2013 #196

Don't forget Mike Litoris. He owns a home nearby. Ian David Jan 2013 #224

He named his son Mike as well - but he changed his last name to Hawk SWTORFanatic Feb 2013 #293

Tell them to find Mike Hunt while you're at it. Wednesdays Feb 2013 #275

and Jack Mehoff. (I personally got caught by that one as a teenager working fast food). HiPointDem Feb 2013 #287

My friend Haywood Jablome is in town and loves Applebees SWTORFanatic Feb 2013 #294

that's petty bourgeoisie...eom Kolesar Jan 2013 #212

For those not aquainted with your friend...... formercia Jan 2013 #244

BOYCOTT THE DAMN PLACE ROBROX Jan 2013 #175

It really was an egotistical comment demwing Jan 2013 #177

Boycott Applebee's? Heck, boycott that pastor's CHURCH! Beartracks Jan 2013 #261

She says... sendero Feb 2013 #283

Wait... $6 is still a 17.2% tip. Beartracks Feb 2013 #310

Applebee's is disgusting. Arctic Dave Jan 2013 #3

You know, when I see a post like this one, ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #42

Well, it is empirically gross. IveWornAHundredPants Jan 2013 #54

"Eat This, Not That" gives Applebee's an F. klook Jan 2013 #73

Ok, let's come at it from a different angle. ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #88

You still seem to be coming at it from the "taking it personally" angle. IveWornAHundredPants Jan 2013 #93

There are places like that around here. However, to dine there ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #94

Here's a quote from the NYTimes review IveWornAHundredPants Jan 2013 #109

The frozen veggies I get a HEB are in plastic bags to. And after I portion ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #117

Well, I certainly don't mean to be condescending. IveWornAHundredPants Jan 2013 #129

Read "The End of Overeating" nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #148

They claim it's 550 calories for what I order... ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #151

Depends on what you put on it nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #153

I completely agree that a person should not consume an entire ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #157

Are you in that category? nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #306

in what universe? 1800 kcal for a man? 1500 for a woman? nah. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #285

I'm guessing you're still in the DFW area, from your profile. kentauros Jan 2013 #202

when I lived in Sonoma(which is ritzy) we had to drive mitchtv Jan 2013 #205

"7oz ribeye with steamed veggies and a baked potato" Capt. Obvious Jan 2013 #124

Some of the best meals I've had -- ever -- were at little truck stops and diners and MADem Jan 2013 #137

It's typically not slaving in the kitchen Capt. Obvious Jan 2013 #156

Your sarcasm tag notwithstanding, a lot of these Mom and Pop places aren't on the internet. MADem Jan 2013 #176

There's a mom and pop 1 block from my work Capt. Obvious Jan 2013 #180

Listen to you! MADem Jan 2013 #183

Not to be rude and jump in, but Yellow Book and a few other "Yellow Pages" types glowing Feb 2013 #278

Try "Roadfood" pamela Feb 2013 #296

I'd rather ask the geezers at the feed store! But I'll hang on to that link! nt MADem Feb 2013 #297

I don't eat at corporate restaurants at all. WHEN CRABS ROAR Jan 2013 #223

I only do it when it is just easier than arguing. MADem Jan 2013 #254

If most people ordered what you ordered, there'd only be one item on the menu. MADem Jan 2013 #126

Thanks for your suggestion, MADem. I would not miss ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #145

I live in NJ JustAnotherGen Jan 2013 #150

I grew up there and didn't go to a chain until I moved out of state. a la izquierda Feb 2013 #284

When you go to Applebee's an order that steak and veggies, the steak is pre-cooked and frozen, and MADem Jan 2013 #161

And, with the "taste" actually added obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #187

*GASP* You mean you don't eat foie gras and Beluga caviar with a '55 Bollinger Arkana Jan 2013 #154

I'm afraid not. I just consume whatever gross stuff I can ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #159

I hear that. Arkana Jan 2013 #167

Fair enough. klook Jan 2013 #182

The absolute worse meal I have ever had in my entire life was at an Applebees fasttense Jan 2013 #233

From Denver to Greece Fuck the Food Police. donheld Feb 2013 #274

Fuck the Promoters of Grease As Food. klook Feb 2013 #289

If you always get diarrhea before your check arrives, it's probably a gross restaurant. n/t Ian David Jan 2013 #89

First of all... ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #92

I'm sorry ChisolmTrailDem, but I had to alert Lochloosa Jan 2013 #95

Hi Lochloosa! A little levity is a good thing =O) ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #97

I prefer small locally owned ethnic restaurants Celebration Jan 2013 #141

Chili's burgers are OK, I rarely go to TGI Friday's, Arkana Jan 2013 #168

My mom was a hostess at OG for 14 years and I ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #172

I find food snobs to be pretty irritating, too. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2013 #231

I like Applebees food. I have never had a bad meal. I don't eat there allot because I southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #108

Your what we call brucefan Jan 2013 #111

How sad. Maybe if you realize that even a poor person likes to go out and eat once and awhile. southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #125

An extravagent $20 meal ... and all you can afford is $3, not $4 for a tip. Give me a break. libdem4life Jan 2013 #188

You don't know me. You have no right to judge me. When I worked before I southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #201

You're right, I don't. Just your opinion on waitress tips...paid less than those who empty bedpans. libdem4life Jan 2013 #215

You seem like an angry person. So I will leave you on this one and say you have southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #229

Actually, on a $20 tab... markpkessinger Jan 2013 #264

Yeah brucefan, even people that get "stiffed" by having to be employed by Walmart like to go out. xtraxritical Jan 2013 #146

If you can't tip fifteen percent minimum for respectable service, you probably MADem Jan 2013 #123

I don't go out very much at all. I am retired and I am not a millionaire. My daughter-in-law southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #138

I spend a lot of time in a very economically depressed area of the country. MADem Jan 2013 #171

I have to disagree... druidity33 Jan 2013 #242

Certainly it is "better than nothing" but you're endorsing a race to the bottom. MADem Jan 2013 #248

I guess you don't get my point... druidity33 Feb 2013 #280

No they are assumed to get 8 percent dsc Jan 2013 #142

That's news to me. nt MADem Jan 2013 #163

Here dsc Jan 2013 #179

Thanks--good detail in that article! nt MADem Jan 2013 #184

no problem dsc Jan 2013 #190

interesting... I always thought it was 12% nt justabob Jan 2013 #214

+1 obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #162

It's good to recognize one's shortcomings Capt. Obvious Jan 2013 #122

And some people sniff around all day for a reason to be insulted alphafemale Jan 2013 #152

I did not "sniff around" for a reason to be insulted. But, you know, ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #155

I like chain restaurants ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2013 #246

Fine dining? Arctic Dave Jan 2013 #252

Applebees's DOES SUCK. Menu: F; Kids' Menue: F. See also Applebee's ... Less Healthy than McDonald's Texas Lawyer Feb 2013 #301

+1. Applebee's is the Wal-Mart of dining. nt valerief Jan 2013 #104

Applebees is Southern Baptist tavalon Feb 2013 #286

"Fired from Applebee's" will look good on her resume. bluedigger Jan 2013 #4

True KansDem Jan 2013 #9

Except he doesn't give 10% DocMac Feb 2013 #304

I was thinking the same thing. yellowcanine Jan 2013 #11

I've been thrown out better places than THIS! nt Romulus Quirinus Jan 2013 #143

Yeah, I've said that. bluedigger Jan 2013 #164

Another horrible corporation RockaFowler Jan 2013 #5

FWIW...Applebee's is owned by IHop dixiegrrrrl Jan 2013 #19

They are independently franchised. proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #27

I think IHop food stinks. narnian60 Jan 2013 #128

Applebee's is already dead to me Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #6

"Chelsea says that the customer told her manager... KansDem Jan 2013 #7

What a disgusting piece of anti-Christian liberalhistorian Jan 2013 #12

I would be very interested gollygee Jan 2013 #26

The pastor is a woman. She is sorry for shaming her church. LiberalAndProud Jan 2013 #79

She runs a 15-member storefront church (part time)... JHB Jan 2013 #98

Never fails... where you find cheap conservatism blended with "holier than thou" HillWilliam Jan 2013 #136

that ain't a tithe, that's a personal 10% tax shelter NuttyFluffers Jan 2013 #237

What do you mean "should", slowpoke? ;) JHB Jan 2013 #238

Look more like crocodile tears to me. She is sorry her rudeness was exposed to the world. yellowcanine Jan 2013 #200

It's not a "he" ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #303

Long before, and long after. PR 101. Robb Jan 2013 #23

Yet their actions were fine? Lone_Star_Dem Jan 2013 #24

A man is degraded by what he does My Good Babushka Jan 2013 #31

As is a woman, like this pastor. nt MADem Jan 2013 #147

I suppose it pertains to the man as in "mankind" My Good Babushka Jan 2013 #149

Gotta love the Self Righteous... iamthebandfanman Jan 2013 #36

What reputation? Can't ruin what doesn't exist. yellowcanine Jan 2013 #55

A-men. Another ignorant asshole masquerading as a Christian. ZRT2209 Jan 2013 #105

The reputation of the restaurant was ruined when the manager fired the server. MADem Jan 2013 #181

I'd hire her. Wait Wut Jan 2013 #8

And if you write insults on restaurant checks you lose your right to privacy, imo. yellowcanine Jan 2013 #14

Since it was Applebee's it couldn't had been more than 3 in the party. LiberalFighter Jan 2013 #47

Yeah...who the fxxk does that, anyway? MADem Jan 2013 #189

"Not always right" is so true! kentauros Jan 2013 #59

LOL! Wait Wut Jan 2013 #170

HER Christ. The pastor is female. MADem Jan 2013 #120

Got it. Wait Wut Jan 2013 #133

I made the same error--prejudice on my part. MADem Jan 2013 #144

Chelsea sounds like an intelligent young lady and probably can do much better than serving yellowcanine Jan 2013 #10

I hope she gets another job quickly gollygee Jan 2013 #13

I wonder if those insisting this was fake/staged will apologize in this thread? bullwinkle428 Jan 2013 #15

I'm not holding my breath - n/t coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #28

You couldn't pay me to eat at an Applebee's. Just inject bacon into your heart. onehandle Jan 2013 #16

what is that supposed to mean? cbdo2007 Jan 2013 #32

Think "bacon" is a metaphor for fat and salt of which presumably there is no shortage in food at yellowcanine Jan 2013 #52

Well that's what I thought but it's a strange reason to attack Applebee's.... cbdo2007 Jan 2013 #86

You Don't Have Local Restaurants In Your Neighborhood? HangOnKids Jan 2013 #114

Ohh la di da mr. fancypants Capt. Obvious Jan 2013 #130

LOL! HangOnKids Jan 2013 #134

Probably uses fancy store-bought soap too!1! JNelson6563 Jan 2013 #191

He's probably too snobby Capt. Obvious Jan 2013 #195

I don't eat at Applebee's.... cbdo2007 Jan 2013 #160

It isn't extreme HangOnKids Jan 2013 #178

Applebee's is literally one step above gas-station microwaveable frozen food. For real. Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #307

Every one of their foods has bacon it it. It's in the water. It's piped into the ventilation... onehandle Feb 2013 #271

Just hook it to my veins! Maynar Feb 2013 #270

Smooth move, Applebee's. Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #17

Again with this NTS air quotes every time a clergyman does something bad? dmallind Jan 2013 #18

+1 redqueen Jan 2013 #22

Actually, thank to the internets and google, the entire receipt can be viewed..... physioex Jan 2013 #60

Separating the two concepts gives the rest of them cover too. AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #77

What other groups Union Scribe Jan 2013 #218

Republicans. AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #232

She Recursion Jan 2013 #192

Can't follow link at work but Wes is a she? dmallind Feb 2013 #295

Applebee's serves food straight from the pit of hell. Ganja Ninja Jan 2013 #20

Just one more reason not to eat Crapplebees food poisoned shit. we can do it Jan 2013 #21

Lesson: Never "insult" Christians in middle management Whovian Jan 2013 #25

** UPDATE: Pastor Bell claims she left cash on the table, exactly $6.29 Robb Jan 2013 #29

Doesn't change the fact she left that un-Christian note mainer Jan 2013 #33

I know. It's not a particularly believable story on her part. Robb Jan 2013 #38

Who would had thought a member of the clergy would lie? LiberalFighter Jan 2013 #49

because she is a self righteous jerk who likes spreading misery? nt abelenkpe Jan 2013 #64

And not just write the note, kentauros Jan 2013 #69

+1000 smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #41

She is lying. The amount that was charged to her card is on the receipt and does not appleannie1 Jan 2013 #74

That pastor is an asshole--she called the restaurant to get the woman fired. MADem Jan 2013 #116

It's obvious she's lying obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #165

So she's rude, cheap AND a liar. Matariki Jan 2013 #174

Here's why I think the pastor's story doesn't ring true... markpkessinger Jan 2013 #266

Jesus would have done the same thing, right? AndyA Jan 2013 #30

I'm not a Reddit user but is there any specific information about coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #34

Reply to myself for this thread: pastor in question is a 'she' and probably coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #40

TSG to the rescue.... MADem Jan 2013 #131

I had stumbled on the same source after I posted my request for info, but thank you coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #225

Happy to help, and I agree with you! nt MADem Jan 2013 #250

Okay, am I missing something Smilo Jan 2013 #35

Here's what I don't understand about that "pastor"... RevStPatrick Jan 2013 #37

Wait... librabear Jan 2013 #48

No, not at all... RevStPatrick Jan 2013 #100

I've heard those stories too librabear Jan 2013 #194

I agree Tien1985 Jan 2013 #262

Again - why is it a "pastor" when they do shitty stuff? Pretending believers/clergy never do? dmallind Feb 2013 #298

I have to weigh in on the side of food service workers here. deucemagnet Feb 2013 #305

I would rather eat road-kill than enter an Applebees.......nft plethoro Jan 2013 #39

Same thing isn't it? Heathen57 Jan 2013 #91

Close, but Zagat says that roadkill's better. VOX Jan 2013 #158

Crapplebee's can suck it. n/t geardaddy Jan 2013 #43

From the article at Consumerist: mahatmakanejeeves Jan 2013 #44

Not to mention compassion. thesquanderer Jan 2013 #62

Have we confirmed that this dickwad really is a pastor? Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #85

Yes. HuckleB Jan 2013 #113

Yes, she is. Mosby Jan 2013 #119

Embarrassment to her church and ministry? Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #127

and not paying taxes Capt. Obvious Jan 2013 #204

Who would even THINK of a scam like that?! Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #206

My roommate in college wanted to start a religion Capt. Obvious Jan 2013 #207

A rec? Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #208

Non-Profits are the scam not just churches Cynicus Emeritus Jan 2013 #228

This is happening Jeff In Milwaukee Feb 2013 #300

That is exactly what is needed Cynicus Emeritus Feb 2013 #309

Yeah that's pathetic - but one guy only had 12 if you recall.... dmallind Feb 2013 #299

wow what a flaming narcissist! BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2013 #211

This ^^ Maynar Feb 2013 #272

If his God is all powerful The Wizard Jan 2013 #45

Or taxes! (nt) 2naSalit Jan 2013 #96

He is a SHE. SHE is a meanspirited .... pastor! MADem Jan 2013 #118

I already don't eat at Crapplebee's Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #46

Fuck applebees. City Lights Jan 2013 #50

After reading that JEB Jan 2013 #51

This message was self-deleted by its author guyton Jan 2013 #56

possibly separate checks but still a party of 20. boston bean Jan 2013 #61

Can you imagine sorting out 20 separate checks? mainer Jan 2013 #103

was separate checks nt justabob Jan 2013 #216

SHould be a wake-up call...far too many employees have no protections whatsoever... joeybee12 Jan 2013 #57

Joey - that is the real story here RockaFowler Jan 2013 #110

Especially with asshat Repuke governors pushing "right to work" laws... joeybee12 Jan 2013 #112

+1 Union Scribe Jan 2013 #220

I hope she finds better work. The person that did not tip deserved to be called out. Waitresses appleannie1 Jan 2013 #58

I wondered about the fallout when I saw the receipt - lynne Jan 2013 #63

It sounds like you're just fine with that, too. Occulus Jan 2013 #221

Yeah, I pretty much am fine with it - lynne Feb 2013 #269

Damn some people (righties) are bitter lately mike dub Jan 2013 #65

This would have been an opportunity for the pastor to learn a lesson and have some shame bluestateguy Jan 2013 #66

She was probably wearing fewer than 37 pieces of Flair, too. klook Jan 2013 #67

Perhaps we could all write to applebees to voice our disappointment abelenkpe Jan 2013 #68

If what the pastor did was the right thing, why does Applebee's want to hide it? nt patrice Jan 2013 #70

Just sent a message to Applebees sarisataka Jan 2013 #71

They fired the server--if that's "getting to the bottom of it" they've hit rock bottom! nt MADem Jan 2013 #185

Applebee's are usually franchised -- they probably didn't know obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #217

I'd hire her. snort Jan 2013 #72

screw Applebee's small-minded persecution of workers Berlum Jan 2013 #75

What if the waitress had written a Hindu religious greeting on the bill? Christians are PRIVILEGED. patrice Jan 2013 #78

applebee's sucks anyway. she should apply for a job at chili's. frylock Jan 2013 #80

k&r for exposure. n/t Laelth Jan 2013 #81

If applebees and the like warrior1 Jan 2013 #82

Why does the mythological god need money? Playinghardball Jan 2013 #83

What Is It With All Of These Chain Restaurants Taking It Out DallasNE Jan 2013 #90

Applebees, barf and gag. Rex Jan 2013 #99

Boycott Applebee's! The place sucks on a good day, anyway! nt MADem Jan 2013 #101

Pastor @sshole needs to be publicly outed.* DirkGently Jan 2013 #102

Yes, she has been identified. richmwill Jan 2013 #255

Methinks her church may be a tax shelter obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #106

K&R for some attention Digital Puppy Jan 2013 #107

In reality, Pastors work for tips. Of course, those tips are tax deductible. HuckleB Jan 2013 #115

Free speech in this country has a long way to go DaveJ Jan 2013 #121

we will never have free speech in this country cbdo2007 Jan 2013 #169

and this act by a corporation ProdigalJunkMail Jan 2013 #240

there is no freedom of speech ProdigalJunkMail Jan 2013 #239

You are stating the obvious. DaveJ Jan 2013 #253

As in protect us from the consequences of what we may say? LanternWaste Feb 2013 #292

If God gets 10% the waitress should get 1% ... Martin Eden Jan 2013 #132

What an idiot this "Pastor" is. She gives 10 percent to God?... richmwill Jan 2013 #135

Of course it does--tax free, too! nt MADem Jan 2013 #249

Applebee’s is a shit hole. I hope she finds a real job. santamargarita Jan 2013 #139

OT! stonecutter357 Jan 2013 #140

Yeah and now she should post the name, address, and telephone number of the restaurant Matariki Jan 2013 #166

The bigger issue begins with the "pastor" believing that God & the waitress are separate entities. VOX Jan 2013 #173

This makes me happy I don't eat out much anymore. Kalidurga Jan 2013 #186

Ain't religion great! n/t RKP5637 Jan 2013 #193

And once again.... MountainMama Jan 2013 #197

Christians tip worse than non : (Link) mainer Jan 2013 #198

I have never once had a satisfying meal from Applebees... WCGreen Jan 2013 #199

He also pays no income taxes. caseymoz Jan 2013 #203

i'm not sure but it seems 18% tip was included in the bill -- you *had* to pay it. that's why it HiPointDem Jan 2013 #209

That's another easy 'boycott'. What a shithole. RedCappedBandit Jan 2013 #210

that cheap bastard deserved to be outed Skittles Jan 2013 #219

Retort: "I work so you church folks can live tax-free...cough up a tip!" radhika Jan 2013 #222

Well... markpkessinger Jan 2013 #267

Totally wrong that she got fired. Starry Messenger Jan 2013 #226

Isn't it now illegal for employer to use what you pot on a social website to fire you notadmblnd Jan 2013 #227

even if it were... ProdigalJunkMail Jan 2013 #241

Nope. The laws in the works forbid them from demanding passwords to accounts. Posteritatis Feb 2013 #312

Pastor Penny-Pincher's pathetic patronism poses problems Blue Owl Jan 2013 #230

Screw Applebees!!! They are a bunch of assholes!!! Claybrains Jan 2013 #234

Maybe if she had more flair XRubicon Jan 2013 #235

Not Much Good Comes From Religion supercats Jan 2013 #236

You did it again, Applebees oldandhappy Jan 2013 #243

The perfect squelch would be to have this boomerang on Appleby's like it were a big rocket indepat Jan 2013 #245

“I Give God 10% Why do you Get 18?” YOHABLO Jan 2013 #247

She gives herself ten percent and gets it tax free, is what she's saying. MADem Jan 2013 #251

What a load of shit davidpdx Jan 2013 #256

That "pastor" is a piece of garbage. Apophis Jan 2013 #257

pastor = garbage, true. But the real assholes in the firing incident were the Applebee managers. nt Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #258

Indeed. Apophis Jan 2013 #259

Another good reason NOT to eat at Applebee's--health is another emsimon33 Jan 2013 #260

Stiffing a waitress is just like stealing. Which makes Rev. Bell a thief. McCamy Taylor Jan 2013 #263

She will get other job offers now, I bet. I hope so. nt tblue37 Jan 2013 #265

“Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.” Grantuspeace Jan 2013 #268

Applebees won't get another cent from me!! loudsue Feb 2013 #273

Cuz she served you your fucking food, Pastor Asshole. Iggo Feb 2013 #276

Cartoon sums it up pokerfan Feb 2013 #277

to #88 timdog44 Feb 2013 #281

Applebees is crap, would never go there LittleBlue Feb 2013 #282

I used to own a muffler shop and I quickly learned that "Pastors" ALWAYS asked for their Dustlawyer Feb 2013 #288

I hope someone gives her another job quickly. Baitball Blogger Feb 2013 #290

Why 18%? Because God don't need to eat! grahamhgreen Feb 2013 #291

It must be pretty handy dotymed Feb 2013 #302

The mistake was leaving the signature Progressive dog Feb 2013 #308

Wait.... She still tipped 17.2%! Beartracks Feb 2013 #311