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MADem

(135,425 posts)
66. They are not "completely different"--they are similar and account for biological differences.
Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:23 AM
Jan 2013

These biological differences are used to determine what the "average" man or woman can accomplish using/applying the test elements.

Men carry less fat around their behinds, for example, and have more upper body strength. I'll wager if you strapped a twenty five pound bag of potatoes to a man's ass, and five pounds to his chest, he'd have trouble with those pull ups, even with the increased upper body strength.

More to the point, PT tests are required to be passed by EVERYONE--doesn't matter if you're filing personnel records, repairing a computer, wrench bending in the motor pool or on the flight line, or toting that weapon in a combat environment.

The PT test is NOT a "gatekeeper" exam for entry into combat arms. It's a gatekeeper exam for entry into the Corps and continued service in the Corps.

All services have PT tests. They're designed to ensure that personnel meet standards set by each Service's Chief. If you seriously think, though, that the standard applied to the average schmuck, regardless of gender, in the Navy, for example, is the same as the physical standard expected of a Navy SEAL, you're not looking at the full picture.

For this reason, your analogy is a fail. The implementation period will be used to determine if additional qualification standards need to be applied to combat specialities. If they're needed they will be crafted, tested and implemented.

Years ago, whiners complained that women couldn't be postal clerks because the mail bags were TOO HEAVY, and that MEN would have to come and lift the bags for the helpless little women. Because of this, any woman who was slotted into a military US mail handling position was required to pass an additional test at the Armed Forces Entrance/Examining Station (later Military Entrance Processing Station) that consisted of having to lift fifty pounds over their heads several times. That nipped that shit in the bud, and there was no more griping about women in the postal ranks.

I found, during my decades in service, that mixed gender units performed far better than single sex ones. There aren't many obstacles that can't be overcome if someone is motivated and qualified. And only qualified personnel--of either gender--will be slotted into these combat positions.

Not all men are Rambos, you know. In fact, quite a few aren't. I know more than a few women who could kick the living shit out of many men in their units.

I suggest you stop worrying about this decision by DOD and the Service Chiefs. They know what they're doing. Your concerns about "unfairness" are entirely unfounded. This is a smart move, and LONG overdue.

The vestigial chauvinists will just have to shrivel up and fall away--there's no place for them in the uniformed services anymore. Adapt or die.

thanks for saying it quinnox Jan 2013 #1
NOBODY SHOULD BE FIGHTING A WAR ROBROX Jan 2013 #47
correct niyad Jan 2013 #2
Yes. PDJane Jan 2013 #3
Exactly right! n/t mokawanis Jan 2013 #4
K&R redqueen Jan 2013 #5
Yours? nick of time Jan 2013 #6
Let's just say I know whereof I speak. Jackpine Radical Jan 2013 #8
Cool. nick of time Jan 2013 #11
Yep pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #7
Amen sarisataka Jan 2013 #9
From personal experience, any woman in the military experiences a form of combat Siwsan Jan 2013 #10
Sorry that you had to experience that stuff Joey Liberal Jan 2013 #37
Nobody belongs in combat... RoccoR5955 Jan 2013 #12
As religious leaders go, Jackpine Radical Jan 2013 #16
War is over if you want it. vlyons Jan 2013 #32
But it's wonderful that women are allowed in combat. Cynicus Emeritus Jan 2013 #13
"War doesn't determine who's right, only who's left." CrispyQ Jan 2013 #14
Maybe someday we'll learn? dixiegrrrrl Jan 2013 #20
I'd say that graphic only showed a tenth or less what was going on. freshwest Jan 2013 #30
Never heard that one. Perfect. Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2013 #34
K&R forestpath Jan 2013 #15
War is STILL a racket. (n/t) klook Jan 2013 #17
True but better than automation. The automation makes it too cheap and easy. TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #18
I want to see KauaiK Jan 2013 #19
+10.000 smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #55
Women like Margaret Thatcher? Indira Gandhi? Queen Elizabeth I? Cleopatra? stevenleser Jan 2013 #61
Sure--as long as they're balanced Jackpine Radical Jan 2013 #82
And I've got to say this: Neither do men, or any living being, belong in combat. 1monster Jan 2013 #21
Agreed, but then Tagish_Charlie Jan 2013 #51
Ex wives dangin Jan 2013 #22
You read my mind. dairydog91 Jan 2013 #23
+ infinity! If that had happened there would have been no Iraq or Afghanistan Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2013 #27
Exactly right. cer7711 Jan 2013 #24
progress? yes I think so pasto76 Jan 2013 #40
Thank You for Joining the Discussion cer7711 Jan 2013 #50
Women who "can't keep up" won't be allowed into combat specialties. MADem Jan 2013 #62
+100 pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #63
Testimony of Female Marine Corps Captain Katie Petronio, A+++ Athlete & Marine cer7711 Jan 2013 #67
Other military women have different views pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #69
That's A Very Good Point! And Fairly Made. cer7711 Jan 2013 #72
I notice the most vociferous objections are coming from religious websites. MADem Jan 2013 #74
Male & Female Marines Are Tested Against Two Completely Different Physical Fitness Standards cer7711 Jan 2013 #65
They are not "completely different"--they are similar and account for biological differences. MADem Jan 2013 #66
Good Response! cer7711 Jan 2013 #71
Oh, please, get over yourself. MADem Jan 2013 #73
Talking With You Is Like Talking With You cer7711 Jan 2013 #86
Forward YOUR rant to Tammy Duckworth, along with your MADem Jan 2013 #88
Check again 4Q2u2 Jan 2013 #78
You need to check again. And not use a right wing RAG with the word "hints" in the headline as MADem Jan 2013 #85
Yes kill the messenger 4Q2u2 Jan 2013 #93
You need to read the TOS. The Moonie Times is NOT a "messenger"--it's a propaganda rag. MADem Jan 2013 #94
I never said Woman Do Not Belong 4Q2u2 Jan 2013 #100
Then you have nothing to worry about. MADem Jan 2013 #101
You are Right 4Q2u2 Jan 2013 #104
Killing people for the bosses isn't "liberation". Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2013 #25
+100000000000000000000000000000... n/t whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #41
I don't like seeing American women getting shot or killed! SCVDem Jan 2013 #26
Exactly. K&R Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #28
As a woman who served SciFiRK Jan 2013 #29
THANK YOU!!! DesertDiamond Jan 2013 #31
Ya almost got me. Chorophyll Jan 2013 #33
That is why drones are being used more and more in killing the "enemy" in their homes. RC Jan 2013 #83
Agreed TxDemChem Jan 2013 #35
I think it's sad Brainstormy Jan 2013 #36
With that title... bobclark86 Jan 2013 #38
OK, I gotta say . . . another_liberal Jan 2013 #39
This "progress" is a setback for humanity. n/t whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #42
Exactly what I was gonna say. Thanks from an ex-Army wife judesedit Jan 2013 #43
I was ready to argue... cbrer Jan 2013 #44
Yep. RedCappedBandit Jan 2013 #45
Build us a Thunderdome! felix_numinous Jan 2013 #46
My thoughts exactly. nt onlyadream Jan 2013 #48
So true Jackpine yet now the Repukes & NRA ironically want everyone to be armed w/assault guns! hue Jan 2013 #49
Thank You kworkman Jan 2013 #52
Best post I've read all day! 99Forever Jan 2013 #53
I always love your posts. love_katz Jan 2013 #54
I have a purple heart for my fathers life. WHEN CRABS ROAR Jan 2013 #56
Robot on robot warfare! That's the way to go. tclambert Jan 2013 #57
Well, there's HULC--that's not quite "robot"--more like robot - human. It's in the biometric stage MADem Jan 2013 #91
... woo me with science Jan 2013 #58
Swords into Plowshares...Nation Building at Home. Everyone else will be OK. libdem4life Jan 2013 #59
Hear, hear. nt Mnemosyne Jan 2013 #60
Women vets are at a higher risk of birth defects and stillbirths - Liberty Belle Jan 2013 #64
You do know that sperm can be damaged and mutated by exposure to toxins, too? MADem Jan 2013 #68
The story about the young women sitting on DU crates was told to me by a friend who died. Liberty Belle Jan 2013 #98
If you're in the service, in wartime, you can be "forced into combat" even if your job is MADem Jan 2013 #102
What does this mean? "I have extremely mixed feelings about women in Congress"????? Logical Jan 2013 #81
A mistype - I meant to say combat. I've worked for a woman running for Congress before, Liberty Belle Jan 2013 #99
Yep, I wholly concur tavalon Jan 2013 #70
Only The Wealthy belong in combat nikto Jan 2013 #75
' Frankie Goes to Hollywood ' orpupilofnature57 Jan 2013 #76
Having spent two years sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #77
If they want to increase the presence of women in our military randr Jan 2013 #79
Women are already in combat ... Wernothelpless Jan 2013 #80
Precisely -- it has been an artificial barrier for well over a decade. nt MADem Jan 2013 #89
Interesting takes on your post, brother pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #84
You called it, Loot. Jackpine Radical Jan 2013 #87
It took me a day to get past the sexist title and open the thread Oilwellian Jan 2013 #96
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Jan 2013 #90
Agreed. Apophis Jan 2013 #92
I waited a long time before clicking your thread Oilwellian Jan 2013 #95
Infantry, armor, artillery. moondust Jan 2013 #97
HULC to the rescue. That is soon to be "not an issue." For men or women. MADem Jan 2013 #103
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