General Discussion

loose wheel

(112 posts)

164. Don't attempt to read a look.

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 04:38 PM

Jan 2013

There is a requirement for reasonable intent. The guy has to do something that would display intent. If he is in the act of removing his weapon from it's stow, and the action does not seem to fit, then it's possible one might assume reasonable intent. In that case my first move is down and right as the best possible move to get out of the path of his first rounds, assuming they are at me. After that,then I'm running while yelling to get out of the building, I'm also putting whatever concealment and cover I can between me and him. Assuming I am unarmed of course.

If I am armed, my first move is still the same, but I have to consider what the background and the foreground of the shot are. If there is an unreasonable chance of hitting a bystander I still try to flee first. If the shot is clear, then I won't have any ammunition left in about six seconds. My first aim point will be his right waist and the gun aim will jump up and to left as I fire. After I am done I will return my weapon to it's holster and await the arrival of law enforcement, and will inform them what happened and follow their instructions.

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About the guy who walked into JC Penny's with an AR-15 [View all] IdaBriggs Jan 2013 OP

Well said. If I encounter someone carrying a rifle slung over their shoulder in a store I will drop peacebird Jan 2013 #1

In this age when people walk into places like theaters and schools and just shoot away... bulloney Jan 2013 #11

I'd like to think I would plow into him and take him down UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #43

I fi saw him in the parking lot i'd hit him with my car, and elehhhhna Jan 2013 #49

It would be an interesting court case UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #54

You would walk. Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #82

And make sure to inform all businesses in the area that you left because you feared harm by it. LiberalFighter Jan 2013 #105

You would go to jail. loose wheel Jan 2013 #118

I didn't say it would be worth it, UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #121

No, it wouldn't. Your lawyer would advise you to not go to trial. nt loose wheel Jan 2013 #123

I meant watch. UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #129

What if a heavily armed guy gives you a "look" bhikkhu Jan 2013 #162

Don't attempt to read a look. loose wheel Jan 2013 #164

You have replied several times. I am not sure you understand my point. IdaBriggs Jan 2013 #179

That's fine for a five year old loose wheel Jan 2013 #190

Thought About This Some, Have You? Paladin Jan 2013 #188

So nice of you to self identify as a) a gun nut; TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #203

Which prompts the question-- lolly Jan 2013 #265

Not so fast. Not if that law is written explicitly in terms of firearms. TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #288

Where does "stand your ground" fit into this? xtraxritical Jan 2013 #280

You have seriously been watching to many Bruce Willis movies... Katashi_itto Jan 2013 #285

I don't own any firearms and never will, xtraxritical Jan 2013 #302

umm did you look where my reply was directed at? It wasnt you. Katashi_itto Jan 2013 #306

You KNOW WHAT I FIND TRULY SICK? TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #201

But it's perfectly fine adieu Jan 2013 #225

It appears it was for a short period of time in that Florida Town. ... spin Jan 2013 #304

Much better to find out he really wasn't a "good guy" lolly Jan 2013 #266

Good thing no one hit any of the recent mass murderers Tunkamerica Jan 2013 #282

Clever sig line. Kingofalldems Jan 2013 #305

Please tell the court, Mr UnrepentantLiberal ... JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2013 #182

A plainclothes police officer? lolly Jan 2013 #267

I drive a school bus and if I saw someone armed like that Pakid Jan 2013 #180

As a parent of a Kid who was in theater nine in July nonoxy9 Jan 2013 #80

oh my goodness renate Jan 2013 #144

What an idiot indeed! SouthernDonkey Jan 2013 #248

I agree with SouthernDonkey duhneece Jan 2013 #292

IMO a person carrying a rifle openly into an area filled with people is a bad guy. LiberalFighter Jan 2013 #104

He doesn't have to justify anything loose wheel Jan 2013 #122

If someone had yelled "he's got a gun!" when Adam Lanza entered Sandy Hook, pnwmom Jan 2013 #127

Adam Lanza... loose wheel Jan 2013 #134

So if a guy walks into an Elementary School with an AR-15 ThoughtCriminal Jan 2013 #148

Carrying a gun into a school zone is a federal offense jmowreader Jan 2013 #191

If the gun is moved in or affects interstate commerce ThoughtCriminal Jan 2013 #195

Carrying guns into Penneys isn't a Federal offense. pnwmom Jan 2013 #196

Exactly. lolly Jan 2013 #268

JC Penny should say not in our stores. Bad for business. klyon Jan 2013 #150

Isnt that sad Robyn66 Jan 2013 #158

It's a very common sight in Oklahoma Wednesdays Jan 2013 #168

The purpose of those stickers is to prevent idiots trying to make stupid "points" kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #181

I have family in Oklahoma xmas74 Jan 2013 #239

That was dumb...eom Kolesar Jan 2013 #290

Target does say just that. xmas74 Jan 2013 #237

So, the pre-req to being a "threat" when carrying guns in a forum is to have shot someone first bulloney Jan 2013 #186

And it's a small act of terrorism. FredStembottom Jan 2013 #226

Yep. lolly Jan 2013 #269

Nope. Never. FredStembottom Jan 2013 #303

So if Adam Lanza had just walked into PENNEYS with his "guns stowed on his person" pnwmom Jan 2013 #194

People don't have the right to LEAVE? HockeyMom Jan 2013 #133

But they apparently didn't loose wheel Jan 2013 #138

If any of the patrons had children with them they would be irresponsible parents LiberalFighter Jan 2013 #146

They would have had to make a proper threat determination loose wheel Jan 2013 #151

Based on what I could find for Utah the businesses can bar patrons with firearms. LiberalFighter Jan 2013 #145

It would be pretty hard for someone to conceal carry an assault rifle on his person. pnwmom Jan 2013 #234

Not in the North in the Winter HockeyMom Jan 2013 #242

Well, this lovely Penney's nutcase might not get as much a kick pnwmom Jan 2013 #245

Holy Cow! lolly Jan 2013 #274

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #153

Scared? loose wheel Jan 2013 #166

Your sheriff is a "democrat sheriff?" Wednesdays Jan 2013 #172

Uhm...why? loose wheel Jan 2013 #198

Because we understand what an adjective is, and what a noun is. jeff47 Jan 2013 #200

I really don't follow all of that closely. loose wheel Jan 2013 #211

I grew up around guns too Robyn66 Jan 2013 #216

You don't follow the basics of parts of speech? jeff47 Jan 2013 #218

Most of us here are DEMOCRATS, the same word you use. pnwmom Jan 2013 #276

Your story is changing. GeorgeGist Jan 2013 #284

uhm...nothing, rly...just go about your business... tex-wyo-dem Jan 2013 #215

After all this time lolly Jan 2013 #272

If all you watch is Hannity, O'Reilly, etc. deutsey Jan 2013 #293

Yelling "Fire" in a theatre isnt a crime when theres a fire. bunnies Jan 2013 #171

RW Gun trolls don't like it when you pick apart their idiotic arguments. Son of Gob Jan 2013 #187

Loose wheel? Loose cannon. Hekate Jan 2013 #174

Nah. loose wheel Jan 2013 #185

No. They fly off at highway speed and cause multi-vehicle... TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #209

Yeah, thanks for stoking confusion among pepole Downtown Hound Jan 2013 #177

I'd settle for gun nuts finding another forum and quit making this one so shitty. Son of Gob Jan 2013 #192

I don't consider myself a gun nut... loose wheel Jan 2013 #193

Oh, well shit, it's so simple! Downtown Hound Jan 2013 #197

If you are afraid... loose wheel Jan 2013 #204

Spare me the gun lesson Downtown Hound Jan 2013 #208

^^^^^ Squinch Jan 2013 #249

I second that. lolly Jan 2013 #275

Thank you for cutting through the bullshit deutsey Jan 2013 #294

Using an AR-15 chambered for .223 ammunition as a "varmint gun" is kind of like using a sledgehammer ET Awful Jan 2013 #223

one small issue Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #230

So, meanit Jan 2013 #273

Over confidence is quite common with these folks lolly Jan 2013 #271

You're putting the onus of the problem on the wrong person. Your analysis is wrong. kwassa Jan 2013 #256

No, yelling "He's got a gun" would be just an observation. Gormy Cuss Jan 2013 #178

For what reason did you carry rifles into areas filled with people? pacalo Jan 2013 #206

I was at a rifle range. loose wheel Jan 2013 #212

I just *knew* that would be your answer. pacalo Jan 2013 #217

I'm going to ask you to use your brain a little here Downtown Hound Jan 2013 #227

Yeah, he has a perfect right to be a crazed weapons nut. pnwmom Jan 2013 #233

Lots of things are legal, but an affront to society. Hoyt Jan 2013 #240

Yelling, "He's gotta gun" is going to be viewed as about the same as yelling, "Fire" in a theater. SoCalNative Jan 2013 #241

Or in Somalia...n/t deutsey Jan 2013 #296

You are fucking insane. MirrorAshes Jan 2013 #243

If a man walked in to a JC Penney store I was in at a counter I would leave my things and find a southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #2

This is what I would do as well Harmony Blue Jan 2013 #9

+1. And I agree with the OP that this moron is too stupid to be allowed a gun. Squinch Jan 2013 #10

I think he was just screaming for attention. southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #64

And fully aware that he would terrify a lot of people in the process. Squinch Jan 2013 #65

Yep. He terrified me. southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #111

And that, as we know, is the very definition of a terrorist. Hekate Jan 2013 #120

I would say so. southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #126

Betcha there are federal anti-terrorist laws that would fit the bill on that. LiberalFighter Jan 2013 #147

100% correct malaise Jan 2013 #16

me too. Your rights to carry a gun shouldn't trump my rights of having you shop in a store with a southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #63

Even the wild west wasn't that way Major Nikon Jan 2013 #88

Dang! Those were the good old days? tblue Jan 2013 #103

This needs to be shown more. LiberalFighter Jan 2013 #106

I guess they had enough of the nuts and fruits just like we are over them. southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #112

I see it more as the transition between civilized and uncivilized Major Nikon Jan 2013 #117

I don't think they would freak had it been done by a republican president. southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #125

People like this man WANT the attention HockeyMom Jan 2013 #170

Could not agree more except I'd have called from home and told them why I left. marew Jan 2013 #176

That is what I would do. You know I bet there are allot of silent majority who would do the same. southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #183

So would I -- you better believe it. pacalo Jan 2013 #207

Exactly what I was thinking. jillan Jan 2013 #252

You can call Penneys 24 hrs/day at 800-322-1189 to let them know you want a no-gun policy. Squinch Jan 2013 #260

Why thank you. I will be calling them on Monday morning. I will also let them know southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #262

Excellent madokie Jan 2013 #3

I would have made my way to the HappyMe Jan 2013 #4

I agree... KansDem Jan 2013 #140

Yup. HappyMe Jan 2013 #142

An AR-15 is NOT a hunting rifle. RebelOne Jan 2013 #5

If by "blast a deer to bits" you mean justanidea Jan 2013 #13

An AR-15 in a JC Penny, even if it WERE a "hunting rifle" annabanana Jan 2013 #38

That's right sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #92

no you would not Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #14

You'd be howled out of the woods around these parts if you brought an AR-15 to hunt deer IDemo Jan 2013 #59

I think it's a generational thing Recursion Jan 2013 #73

Err...Sam round..for starters. nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #70

definitely... raidert05 Jan 2013 #27

A Barret .50 cal? Rozlee Jan 2013 #163

LOL... raidert05 Jan 2013 #169

Nice rant Ida 2pooped2pop Jan 2013 #6

"Things just keep getting worse" & "It will only get worse if not curbed." pacalo Jan 2013 #213

I absolutely agree with you on the treason charge. 2pooped2pop Jan 2013 #219

As a person who has always loved words, I don't use them without thought. pacalo Jan 2013 #220

Cogent Argument For Eliminating Guns In Society cantbeserious Jan 2013 #7

Gun Enthusiast Backing For That Assault Rifle-Toting Putz Is Notably Absent On Other Related Threads Paladin Jan 2013 #8

No, the guy is an idiot Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #17

He is a lot worse than an "idiot". nt ladjf Jan 2013 #139

As a gun owner I don't think his actions were wise or considerate aikoaiko Jan 2013 #20

But that's as far as it goes? Unwise and inconsiderate? Squinch Jan 2013 #51

How about unwise and very inconsiderate. aikoaiko Jan 2013 #71

Seriously? Squinch Jan 2013 #72

you not much smarter than that man Skittles Jan 2013 #114

What's wrong with saying it was unwise and inconsiderate? aikoaiko Jan 2013 #115

What do you want? Mean-spirited? Trollish? Recursion Jan 2013 #74

Cutting in line at the movie theater is unwise and inconsiderate. This was insane. No one in that Squinch Jan 2013 #84

What did it put people in danger of? Recursion Jan 2013 #85

For one thing, he put us in danger from the guy who thinks Wayne LaPierre is a sensible man. Squinch Jan 2013 #87

Apparently you don't think as many obviously do. A Simple Game Jan 2013 #95

Well, the bad guy wouldn't let people see he had a gun before his rampage Recursion Jan 2013 #97

Most do probably hide their guns until they use them, but if I A Simple Game Jan 2013 #102

Yeah, there's no chance he could be an unhinged nutjob lolly Jan 2013 #278

The bad guy is the one with the gun. SwankyXomb Jan 2013 #229

Check this out. As we all suspected, the guy is a complete obsessed psycho. Squinch Jan 2013 #246

I was wondering about that - it seems he didn't piss off anyone in that Utah store. Did anyone DeschutesRiver Jan 2013 #99

I don't know anything about the community. I've lived places where this wouldn't raise an eyebrow Recursion Jan 2013 #100

I am pretty remote rural, but I haven't seen it here. But no, it wouldn't raise an eyebrow DeschutesRiver Jan 2013 #107

Furthermore, I believe that he is hurting the arguments being made in favor of gun ownership. ladjf Jan 2013 #141

It was a dumb idea krispos42 Jan 2013 #12

The report indicated he had a CC permit. Robb Jan 2013 #25

Then he should have been carrying CONCEALED. krispos42 Jan 2013 #35

Should have, but didn't. What shall we do about it? Robb Jan 2013 #36

Many states have a prohibition about open carry... krispos42 Jan 2013 #44

Yes, the point is to be inflammatory BainsBane Jan 2013 #39

What's to prevent a "bad guy" from taking that weapon? Martin Eden Jan 2013 #15

I think the bigger question is how to know that he is not the lunatic malaise Jan 2013 #18

Yeah. If I saw this guy I would have run the hell out of there and then called 911. Chorophyll Jan 2013 #28

Because it's people influenced by a phase of the moon that are homicidal HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #29

OK I'll LOL at your interesting response malaise Jan 2013 #31

Intentionally or not you flicked a switch for me. HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #34

Well it's all good then malaise Jan 2013 #40

Lunatics don't display their weapons before they fire Recursion Jan 2013 #76

They're lunatics. You can't count on any particular behavior. jeff47 Jan 2013 #210

That's the FIRST question, which was examined very cogently in the OP ... Martin Eden Jan 2013 #130

Amen it is ridiculously dangerous to have that in a JC Penney's treestar Jan 2013 #83

this: KG Jan 2013 #19

Well, exactly. How is anyone to know that he is NOT just another nut who legally bought his Nay Jan 2013 #32

Ban magazines of over 5 rounds daybranch Jan 2013 #21

This is interesting. Would you say more about this? I am not understanding why 5 rounds vs. 10 Squinch Jan 2013 #55

What does 5 rounds make impossible? Shooting a sixth round. Recursion Jan 2013 #78

Daybranch seemed to be saying that guns with 5 round magazines are fundamentally Squinch Jan 2013 #90

The magazine size has nothing to do with the gun per se Recursion Jan 2013 #96

The AR15 inaccurate at distance? Ashgrey77 Jan 2013 #184

"My immediate response would have to be "To Hunt."" Robb Jan 2013 #22

I feel you as I'm freaked out whenever I see a weapon in public (let alone a retail establishment). Snarkoleptic Jan 2013 #23

I agree, but the sign needs to say "firearms", not "weapons". Here's why: MH1 Jan 2013 #45

Our local grocery store has "No Firearms" signs... hunter Jan 2013 #131

K&R. Chorophyll Jan 2013 #24

Better to change laws rather than peoples opinion. xoom Jan 2013 #26

That "legal and responsible" gun owner is... 99Forever Jan 2013 #30

Ida;s best and most important line: RVN VET Jan 2013 #33

I thought that, too. Black guys get shot for carrying Skittles on the street. Beartracks Jan 2013 #113

The thing that fool likely did not consider was he was liklier to get shot himself Coyotl Jan 2013 #37

Everyone should leave the store & not come back for a week. MAKE the Mall say no guns allowed on point Jan 2013 #41

Very poor taste... raidert05 Jan 2013 #42

The irony is that in a state with a Stand Your Ground law. zeemike Jan 2013 #46

Good point! csziggy Jan 2013 #108

That would send YOU to jail really quick. ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #136

You mean it is unreasonable to think zeemike Jan 2013 #143

If.. raidert05 Jan 2013 #175

Well there would be this question. zeemike Jan 2013 #214

If he was raidert05 Jan 2013 #224

Well what if. zeemike Jan 2013 #228

Well.. raidert05 Jan 2013 #231

Any public place. zeemike Jan 2013 #232

If thats... raidert05 Jan 2013 #244

Well you can make the story sound like you want it to zeemike Jan 2013 #247

You need to make sure your "story" matches ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #254

I am not planing to do any of this BTW zeemike Jan 2013 #258

Hypothetically, this is where you might get in trouble. ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #259

Well how about this one then. zeemike Jan 2013 #261

In this scenario, you are the armed aggressor. ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #263

Well to keep this going. zeemike Jan 2013 #270

The problem here is you did not warn him but you threatened him. ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #281

Well perhaps that is our problem zeemike Jan 2013 #291

I don't think you even have to be paranoid deutsey Jan 2013 #299

No where... raidert05 Jan 2013 #255

No I get what you are saying. zeemike Jan 2013 #257

Ida, if you put a note at the TOP of this excerpt, tblue37 Jan 2013 #47

I did write it. The link is to a news story about the guy with the AR-15 IdaBriggs Jan 2013 #48

AHHHH--MY mistake, then! tblue37 Jan 2013 #52

It was my fault for not being clear, and I immediately IdaBriggs Jan 2013 #53

All fairly reasonable points in the wake of something like this pipoman Jan 2013 #50

You are describing the case that occurred some years ago in Wichita. tblue37 Jan 2013 #77

Yep.. pipoman Jan 2013 #161

Well said IdaBriggs, Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #56

K&R SunSeeker Jan 2013 #57

+1000 LiberalEsto Jan 2013 #58

One of the best thing about my state is that you cannot carry at all! Walk away Jan 2013 #60

Really excellent post. Correct on every point. The man is mad, this is madness. mountain grammy Jan 2013 #61

This IS terrorism... and should not be considered acceptable behavior in any community Agony Jan 2013 #62

"This IS terrorism." Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2013 #89

I wonder what donco Jan 2013 #66

As a parent Thav Jan 2013 #67

Come on.. sendero Jan 2013 #68

In California he would have been arrested. nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #69

The big clue is that you saw the gun Recursion Jan 2013 #75

Not Sure That's An Accurate Statement. TinkerTot55 Jan 2013 #157

I don't know; good point. (nt) Recursion Jan 2013 #160

I also think the mall shooter is seen on a surveilance tape deutsey Jan 2013 #300

Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.'s opinion Generic Other Jan 2013 #79

You know Holmes used that to jail an anti-WWI protestor, right? Recursion Jan 2013 #81

Hmmmm Helen Reddy Jan 2013 #86

"He is a man openly carrying a "hunting rifle" where the only available targets are people" NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #91

His only other stop could have been the gun store loose wheel Jan 2013 #128

The guy needs some good parody photos. caseymoz Jan 2013 #93

I would consider anyone sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #94

Another of the what-if scenarios matt819 Jan 2013 #98

This was my comment on the Raw Story article about it: DFW Jan 2013 #101

+10,000 djean111 Jan 2013 #116

I wish I could rec this post a million times a million. CrispyQ Jan 2013 #109

You can't yell "Fire" in a theater. Beartracks Jan 2013 #110

You have my vote. I, too, would leave the scene immediately and call 911 Hekate Jan 2013 #119

It is not paranoid or an over reaction to run and hide when someone carries an 1monster Jan 2013 #124

At the very least I will inform the store they have lost a customer. Stores are privately owned appleannie1 Jan 2013 #132

Would rec more than once if I could War Horse Jan 2013 #135

Good post. I clearly understand your valid point that maybe the kill is a crazed killer about ladjf Jan 2013 #137

He brought it in to "educate" ???BULLSHIT! Robyn66 Jan 2013 #149

I read your story both times you posted it. IdaBriggs Jan 2013 #152

I feel like a real dork repeating it Robyn66 Jan 2013 #156

He is a domestic terrorist SouthernDonkey Jan 2013 #251

ABSOLUTELY! Robyn66 Jan 2013 #253

A Bully and a Jerk lolly Jan 2013 #279

+1 uponit7771 Jan 2013 #283

Boycott JC Penny's UNTIL They Prohibit OPEN CARRY in ALL of Their Stores!!! triplepoint Jan 2013 #154

Out in the Open Cedric the Clam Jan 2013 #155

You nailed it! lunatica Jan 2013 #159

If this happens again &ALL patrons leave the store until he does,profits will dictate policy/boycott judesedit Jan 2013 #165

You made the point that I made on a companion post Proud Liberal Dem Jan 2013 #167

Ida I agree with you 100% life long demo Jan 2013 #173

JC Penney's should have showed him the door Politicalboi Jan 2013 #189

Intimidating and Scaring The Shit Out of otohara Jan 2013 #199

I couldn't agree more, Ida! pacalo Jan 2013 #202

When I worked as a bartender, I could forbid customers Cleita Jan 2013 #205

A simple solution: Contact JC Penny's and tell them that you and your kids will not shop in a store FSogol Jan 2013 #221

I wonder if I can walk into a JC Penney adieu Jan 2013 #222

And he really does seem to be on the edge of a violent rampage: pnwmom Jan 2013 #235

I don't care. xmas74 Jan 2013 #236

If this guy had walked into the store.... llmart Jan 2013 #238

He has an old My Space Account Look here and bkkyosemite Jan 2013 #250

IdaBriggs - here is his myspace account pipewrench Jan 2013 #264

If this guy had been on a deranged mission deutsey Jan 2013 #301

This person wanted to intimidate and it's sad he was allowed to. Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #277

At best this guy is a swaggering half wit Warpy Jan 2013 #286

I am curious about who this man was, what his motivation was, & how the photos got to the HiPointDem Jan 2013 #287

You people just don't understand Semtex Jan 2013 #289

Oh, good grief! Please comment on JC Penney's Facebook page re: Gun Guy IdaBriggs Jan 2013 #295

Jcpenney is now a dangerous place to shop MellonCollie11 Jan 2013 #297

I hope their liability insurance is a hefty one MellonCollie11 Jan 2013 #298