Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
62. I'm not entirely unrealistsic
Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:59 AM
Jan 2013

No way do I expect progressives to get everything they want (I'm not saying you said that, just elaborating on my position). Often it seems to me progressives don't get anything at all. I can even handle losing on an issue, in fact I expect it.

Where I draw my personal lines is I try to distill what it is that the politician or legislation in question is attempting to do. ACA has some positive things, such as expanding coverage, hopefully it will end the pre-existing condition rejections, and some other things. Overall, though, and there are better examples than health care, but it seemed to me that this reform was intended to lock us into a corporate solution, rather than a less expensive public one. Could we have gotten a public solution then? No, I don't think so. We should, however, have fought like dogs for it, then compromised down to a private system with a competing public option, all the while going kicking and screaming to that compromise as if we had gotten nothing. Instead, Obama secretly negotiated away any possibility of a public option, and also didn't fight for getting Medicare D to be able to bargain down drug prices, like every other country does. It was a giveaway to the corporations, from the beginning. So Obama was never on the track I support.

It was even worse with the handling of the mortgage crisis. HAMP was an absolute giveaway to the banks, very few homeowners were helped by it. Principle reduction for troubled properties was off the table. The trillions lost in deflated assets and blown up securities were paid off on the side of the lenders, then they give us austerity to pay these private debts (and not OUR private debts, not the debts that became overwhelming to homeowners who lost jobs and couldn't sell their underwater homes, but the mortgage originators, and, worse, the imaginary money they had created through insanely leveraged securities on those same mortgages) from the pockets of taxpayers. This was completely unsupportable, and is a good example of corporate Dems working on the wrong side of an issue.

So I don't see the party embodied by Obama, Biden, and Clinton(s) getting us much of anything we need. Their entire perspective is that of the fat cats. Sure, they'll try to put a human face and a gentle hand on it, so they can successfully defeat Republicans in elections, and also because they truly aren't quite as bad as those guys. But they're just a slightly kinder version of the same animal, one which is devouring the middle class, devouring the environment, and actively works to subvert any alternative political models.

Anyway thanks for your post and for its reasoned discussion. I have seen your posts before and know that you're more accepting of our party's direction than I am, though ultimately we may be looking for similar things.

DLC is center right - there is nothing populist about today's democratic party INC nt msongs Jan 2013 #1
Du rec. Nt xchrom Jan 2013 #2
Thank you for your concern and comment, FDL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #3
Maybe they'll interview Kucinich for his pov on the "division" Hekate Jan 2013 #38
what do jane Hamsher and dennis have in common DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #51
And The Democrats Take Lots Of Corporate Money Too... What's Your Point ??? WillyT Jan 2013 #52
The point is DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #63
The Profiteering Left.. with Cha Jan 2013 #65
If I could put this in the hall of fame DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #75
Exactly right brush Jan 2013 #53
I would not call them Corporate Liberals octoberlib Jan 2013 #4
LOL! Gotta love FDL quoting a Politico piece ProSense Jan 2013 #5
No Comment On What Keith Ellison(D) Has To Say ??? Or The Political Director Of The AFL-CIO ??? WillyT Jan 2013 #6
When I go to a Politico article ProSense Jan 2013 #9
Oh, I see. They're projecting octoberlib Jan 2013 #8
FDL is for birthers.... greatauntoftriplets Jan 2013 #27
... SidDithers Jan 2013 #7
lol uponit7771 Jan 2013 #17
Oh, its you. bahrbearian Jan 2013 #18
Hey Man... Don't Mess With The Hall Monitor... He'll Ask To See Your Papers... WillyT Jan 2013 #20
hee hee DevonRex Jan 2013 #23
i see the tiny fists are a-flailing again.. care for a truffle? dionysus Jan 2013 #37
I do!! DevonRex Jan 2013 #47
Yeah... WillyT Jan 2013 #28
Really? That's the best you could come up with?... SidDithers Jan 2013 #30
I Am... But It's Been A Long Work Week Making Sure That California's Unemployed Get Their Checks... WillyT Jan 2013 #32
Nice try, Hamsher/Norquist fanboy emulatorloo Jan 2013 #72
more like "FDL Again Trying to Divide Democratic Party as Inauguration Approaches" dionysus Jan 2013 #36
Oh... I'm Sure Monday Will Be A Lovely Day... I'll Be Watching And Enjoying It... WillyT Jan 2013 #40
Of course, they are. That's what they do. They're Cha Jan 2013 #68
!!!! Tarheel_Dem Jan 2013 #84
I don't even consider the DLC part of the Democratic party. Motown_Johnny Jan 2013 #10
All Democrats need to follow Obama and OFA's lead or risk being as splintered as the GOP... Comrade_McKenzie Jan 2013 #11
Dumpster fire Lake strikes again michigandem58 Jan 2013 #12
You never seem to get tired of posting negative and largely inaccurate crap, do you? nt. OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #13
This is where the real discussion should be dreamnightwind Jan 2013 #14
"corporate liberal is an oxymoron in my mind" - Me Too... Or Simply Moronic... WillyT Jan 2013 #16
"So far in this thread, I see mostly dismissive posts rather than an attempt to participate..." gateley Jan 2013 #33
And Ironically... I STILL Have Hope... BUT... These Things Need To Be Discussed... And Fought For... WillyT Jan 2013 #34
But I don't think it's that cut and dried -- gateley Jan 2013 #48
True... Did You See This ??? WillyT Jan 2013 #49
No! Hadn't seen that! How/why do we let to Banks and Government do this to gateley Jan 2013 #67
I'm not entirely unrealistsic dreamnightwind Jan 2013 #62
Right On bahrbearian Jan 2013 #92
When Obama ran SS cuts up the flagpole and Pelosi saluted, I think it forestpath Jan 2013 #15
Here's how this thread will go whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #19
Ironic... No ??? WillyT Jan 2013 #21
Yep whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #24
LOL. Poor FDL. DevonRex Jan 2013 #22
It will be interesting to see where they go from here. Autumn Jan 2013 #25
You Better Believe It!! nt msanthrope Jan 2013 #26
Here's proof there is no "divide" ProSense Jan 2013 #29
Thoughts on cuts to the safety net Kingwithnothrone Jan 2013 #45
"You do a lot of cut and paste" ProSense Jan 2013 #56
No stance on the safety net? Kingwithnothrone Jan 2013 #60
"Been lurking here for years Prosense" ProSense Jan 2013 #61
You won't state your case Kingwithnothrone Jan 2013 #66
Thoughts on cuts to the safety net Kingwithnothrone Jan 2013 #46
Divide? 10% extreme left, 90% extreme happy with Obama. graham4anything Jan 2013 #31
10 percent pseudo-progressives and trolls. A very LOUD 10 percent emulatorloo Jan 2013 #74
To those pissed off, what's the alternative? WHO is the alternative (until 2016) DainBramaged Jan 2013 #35
Guess who is going to win...... MrSlayer Jan 2013 #39
Gee. Don't corporations already have a party? Octafish Jan 2013 #41
LOL !!! - But It's ALL About The Money Dontcha Know ??? WillyT Jan 2013 #43
In spite of the source, this article brings up a salient point...... socialist_n_TN Jan 2013 #42
+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! WillyT Jan 2013 #44
ROFL Oilwellian Jan 2013 #50
It's FDL. They love any "salient point" that's anti-Obama/Democrats ProSense Jan 2013 #57
Well... Since You Are An Avid Reader Of FDL... You Should Know... WillyT Jan 2013 #58
Who in their right mind thinks the ACA is "fascism"? n/t ProSense Jan 2013 #59
The dumbest MOFO on Cha Jan 2013 #64
He got donations on the promise to fight for Single Payer, then he backed down. I went to ancianita Jan 2013 #69
LOL, when you actually have a party that matters DevonRex Jan 2013 #70
Hey, I'm not advocating anything, I (and I think the article itself).......... socialist_n_TN Jan 2013 #76
Exactly... WillyT Jan 2013 #78
You actually believe this crap? ProSense Jan 2013 #79
Why Wouldn't I ??? - I Know DU Is Not The Democratic Party, But It's One Hell Of A Sample... WillyT Jan 2013 #82
Really? The President won by a landslide ProSense Jan 2013 #83
Should we tell them that Dems always argue? Always have, always will? DevonRex Jan 2013 #87
giggle. Keep waiting and hoping for those crumbs! DevonRex Jan 2013 #86
Well one nice thing about a split on BOTH sides is.......... socialist_n_TN Jan 2013 #89
Yep... Did You See That Patrick Kennedy Is Lobbying For Anti-Marijuana Legislation ??? WillyT Jan 2013 #90
"Corporate Liberals"? MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #54
LOL !!! WillyT Jan 2013 #55
Corporate liberals used to be called... upi402 Jan 2013 #71
Republican Party Divided, so WillyT tries to create division at DU with Norquist's girlfriend. emulatorloo Jan 2013 #73
Holy shit. Does FDL really not know what a lame duck is? Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #77
My view creon Jan 2013 #80
I wouldn't categorize the corporate wing of the party LWolf Jan 2013 #81
Last time I checked, CheapShotArtist Jan 2013 #85
Besides the re-election of President Obama, I can't think of anything more gratifying.... Tarheel_Dem Jan 2013 #88
what sweet irony arely staircase Jan 2013 #91
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Democratic Party Divided ...»Reply #62