What about land area (Reply #37) - Democratic Underground

In the discussion thread: New Report: Solar could provide 100% of world's energy needs by 2050 using only 1% of world's land [View all]

Response to jberryhill (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 06:28 PM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

37. What about land area

You're going to have to kick some people out of their homes, give up farmland, or if you want someplace that's uninhabited that gets a lot of sun, that means distance, which means burning power in transport, which means more land.

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132 replies	Author	Time	Post
New Report: Solar could provide 100% of world's energy needs by 2050 using only 1% of world's land [View all]	FourScore	Jan 2013	OP
And the oil rich nations?	aquart	Jan 2013	#1
Pay 'em off! Get them into the solar array business!	randome	Jan 2013	#3
Luckily we've sold them plenty of weapons so when their economies go to shit...	progressoid	Jan 2013	#12
They're located at the best places	adieu	Jan 2013	#32
Who the fuck cares?	Zoeisright	Jan 2013	#57
like us?? there's still plenty of uses for oil	NMDemDist2	Jan 2013	#74
Cover 'em up!	NYC_SKP	Jan 2013	#99
Why, they can go pound sand.	Occulus	Jan 2013	#126
Truly good news	riverbendviewgal	Jan 2013	#2
1% of the land we have now or 1% of what will be left after the ice caps melt?	Motown_Johnny	Jan 2013	#4
But wouldn't that require about 300% of the world's Lanthanides?	Recursion	Jan 2013	#5
Whatever is needed can probably be synthetically created.	randome	Jan 2013	#8
I'm all for a "Man on the Moon" goal for renewable energy	Recursion	Jan 2013	#10
I think that could be done but it would be more like WWII level of societal effort	Fumesucker	Jan 2013	#14
Yeah. I wish things other than imminent death brought that out in people	Recursion	Jan 2013	#15
Or a fake Ozymandious invasion, ala Watchmen.	randome	Jan 2013	#16
No. We cannot "synthetically create" various elements	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#20
i don't think you can synthetically create elements.	ret5hd	Jan 2013	#53
Actually, the moon would be the best place to put solar arrays.	xtraxritical	Jan 2013	#128
Why on earth would you want to use lanthanides?	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#19
Have they fixed that in the last 6 years?	Recursion	Jan 2013	#21
They are used in certain exotic PV's	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#23
Cool, thanks.	Recursion	Jan 2013	#25
And how much usable energy	tama	Jan 2013	#30
Easy.....	paleotn	Jan 2013	#56
But the exotic PVs have higher efficiency	Confusious	Jan 2013	#31
And the Tesla is a great car	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#35
What about land area	Confusious	Jan 2013	#37
Oh, I thought I got the land for free	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#49
Agenda 21?	Confusious	Jan 2013	#65
Shhhh...	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#66
Roofs? Parking lots? and then of course vacant land. A lot here, a lot there in parts of	JDPriestly	Jan 2013	#86
You think cities take up 1% of the land mass of the United States	Confusious	Jan 2013	#108
Cities and desert lands.	JDPriestly	Jan 2013	#119
There's a lot	Confusious	Jan 2013	#122
We'll find the will.	JDPriestly	Jan 2013	#127
As you, yourself, have pointed out	intaglio	Jan 2013	#129
20+% is no longer exotic, it's mainstream for SunPower. 44% is exotic.	NYC_SKP	Jan 2013	#36
Yea, I said that's what the report is based on	Confusious	Jan 2013	#38
Got it. Also, I'm confident that the 1% figure is too great.	NYC_SKP	Jan 2013	#45
But if we use 1%	BSlappedInvisibleHan	Jan 2013	#60
We need just 1/6000th the land surface at 100% efficiency.	NYC_SKP	Jan 2013	#64
An in the opposite corner,	JDPriestly	Jan 2013	#88
Ah, well, I didn't know there was a PV technology assumption in the report	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#50
What about Eastern California where it's mostly desert?	MessiahRp	Jan 2013	#93
California is a long way from the east coast	Confusious	Jan 2013	#107
There's a lot of unused land in the US right now. We could make this work if we wanted to.	MessiahRp	Jan 2013	#109
Is there any land that has absolutly nothing on it	Confusious	Jan 2013	#111
I'm sure there is. Also, rooftops in cities...	MessiahRp	Jan 2013	#112
Yea, but as my other post pointed out	Confusious	Jan 2013	#123
Now imagine ...	1StrongBlackMan	Jan 2013	#6
Dream on!	randome	Jan 2013	#9
Thanks ...	1StrongBlackMan	Jan 2013	#22
People who think solar energy is unrealistic do not live in Arizona, New Mexico or Southern	JDPriestly	Jan 2013	#89
Or ...	1StrongBlackMan	Jan 2013	#96
Hellz yeah!	NoOneMan	Jan 2013	#7
Have teh solerz saved YOU yet?	Systematic Chaos	Jan 2013	#75
It isn't as if I don't "believe" in solar	NoOneMan	Jan 2013	#106
I got ya. I feel exactly the way you do.	Systematic Chaos	Jan 2013	#113
Do the necessary elements exist in such quantity on Earth?	cthulu2016	Jan 2013	#11
My math could be wrong....	NCTraveler	Jan 2013	#13
A quarter of Arizona	Confusious	Jan 2013	#33
But you put the panels on roofs and buildings and parking lots as well as desert land.	JDPriestly	Jan 2013	#90
I think that is a big question.	NCTraveler	Jan 2013	#95
We will probably need to do some of each. Homes, schools and desert solar ranches.	JDPriestly	Jan 2013	#116
Adding up the area of every city	Confusious	Jan 2013	#110
But that land isn't hard to find in the deserts of the Southwest.	JDPriestly	Jan 2013	#115
There are some large plants, like the cactus.	Confusious	Jan 2013	#121
And Joshua trees, but that can be dealt with.	JDPriestly	Jan 2013	#125
1% of world's land is a lot of land	cpwm17	Jan 2013	#17
About 575,000 square miles I believe	onenote	Jan 2013	#26
And not only that, if one of the worlds volcanoes erupts, solar efficiencies could/will plummet.	RC	Jan 2013	#48
About 1 percent of the U.S. landmass is covered by pavement	daleo	Jan 2013	#78
Time To Finally Aim That Way	colsohlibgal	Jan 2013	#18
Why do you think belief has anything to do with the problem we face?	NoOneMan	Jan 2013	#24
Yep. However.....	AverageJoe90	Jan 2013	#52
that would be awesome	samsingh	Jan 2013	#27
Not until I receive my promised flying car	Brother Buzz	Jan 2013	#28
But where is storage tech today?	longship	Jan 2013	#29
Hydrogen, pumped hydro... (nt)	NYC_SKP	Jan 2013	#34
Electrolysis of sea water, I was thinking.	longship	Jan 2013	#55
You do realize that seawater has to be distilled	Confusious	Jan 2013	#69
That may be true, but the water can also be used for other purposes as well.	longship	Jan 2013	#70
Yes, but there's a reason it's only used when there's no other choice	Confusious	Jan 2013	#71
Very true...	longship	Jan 2013	#73
We're using pumped hydro right now with Diablo Canyon nuke power at night.	NYC_SKP	Jan 2013	#81
Cool, let me clarify "loser"	longship	Jan 2013	#83
Electric cars would help store the power and keep the grid going at night. Also don't forget wind.	rightsideout	Jan 2013	#42
Solar Two was a start	green for victory	Jan 2013	#61
And now...	Amonester	Jan 2013	#85
Didn't I see this on the news in the '80s?	dorkulon	Jan 2013	#39
Solar (and other "emerging" technologies) are why we need government	Spike89	Jan 2013	#40
Good point, and very true. n/t	AverageJoe90	Jan 2013	#43
Everybody knows computers will be better and cheaper next year, does that inhibit	PoliticAverse	Jan 2013	#79
Actually it did for a long time	Spike89	Jan 2013	#117
Who could imagined that we could get energy from the Sun	Rosa Luxemburg	Jan 2013	#41
Sad!!	Lobo27	Jan 2013	#44
Energy needs or electricity needs?	nxylas	Jan 2013	#46
Make it so	Berlum	Jan 2013	#47
Daily Kos diarist got it wrong; not 'worldwide', in selected locations	muriel_volestrangler	Jan 2013	#51
Shhh! Don't upset the nukers with such ideas. It doesn't fit into the future of life on	leveymg	Jan 2013	#54
While the US was executing the PNAC plan, Germany became the leader in PV	green for victory	Jan 2013	#58
Here's Olmedilla de Alarcón Spain	green for victory	Jan 2013	#72
Storage Storage Storage	upi402	Jan 2013	#59
please see #61	green for victory	Jan 2013	#62
Electrolysis: 2H2O -> 2H2 + O2	longship	Jan 2013	#63
"I do not think we have a long time before we all realize that this needs to be top priority"	green for victory	Jan 2013	#67
Smart grid entails proprietary protocol problems	upi402	Jan 2013	#131
Except they will never be allowed to build it because of a few endangered species	n2doc	Jan 2013	#68
I don't see desert ecosystems "doing just fine."	joshcryer	Jan 2013	#76
Possibilities aren't necessarily realities. Fossil fuels remain most profitable.	joshcryer	Jan 2013	#77
Actually, less than 1/10 of 1% of the planet. 0.08% with 20% efficient modules.	NYC_SKP	Jan 2013	#80
Installing solar over previously undeveloped land...	hunter	Jan 2013	#82
Yours is the classic blindness.	NYC_SKP	Jan 2013	#84
What's the downside we have to worry about?	The2ndWheel	Jan 2013	#97
No argument here.	NYC_SKP	Jan 2013	#98
Nope, got the right post	The2ndWheel	Jan 2013	#100
With this many people, it boils down to the lesser of evils.	NYC_SKP	Jan 2013	#101
+1	XemaSab	Jan 2013	#87
wait so putting pv on rooftops is destroying more land?	uponit7771	Jan 2013	#92
"world" by 2050?	moondust	Jan 2013	#91
But we only need to cover 1% of the oceans with oil slicks to do it with oil'	grahamhgreen	Jan 2013	#94
The problem is that the global economy doesn't work that way.	GliderGuider	Jan 2013	#102
The global economy CAN work that way if enough international cooperation gets underway.	randome	Jan 2013	#103
Let me know how that works out.	GliderGuider	Jan 2013	#104
YOU are the alternative power!	farminator3000	Jan 2013	#105
Yes, now please	Matariki	Jan 2013	#114
check out the solar towers here- going up in AZ and TX, i think. pretty f'in cool!	farminator3000	Jan 2013	#118
also MIT is doing 3-D solar panels	farminator3000	Jan 2013	#120
The EnviroMission tower is expected to be completed in 2015	farminator3000	Jan 2013	#124
Thin metallic film, nanoparticles, plasmonics, supramolecules	upi402	Jan 2013	#130
K&R	farminator3000	Jan 2013	#132

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