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In reply to the discussion: Yes, lead poisoning could really be a cause of violent crime [View all]Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)12. Except the correlation between eliminating leaded gasoline and declining violent crime...
holds true for every country that there are data for. Not just the USA. And the mechanism would be brain damage to the prefrontal cortex that results in increased aggression, reduced impulse control, and poor executive function (but you'd know this if you'd read the article). And the findings of blood concentrations of lead of as much as 50 times higher in violent offenders vs non-criminals are also rather indicative of something going on. The data, such as they are, seem to support the hypothesis.
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It was hypothesized 80 years ago that the fall of the Roman Empire was due to lead plates, goblets
leveymg
Jan 2013
#1
I stand corrected. People have known for at least 1900 years that ingesting lead is dangerous
leveymg
Jan 2013
#72
I think too much is being made about this story. I don't view it as news or even as original
leveymg
Jan 2013
#76
I don't buy it. what is the mechanism through which increased exposure to lead increases
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#3
i remember when similar studies were done in the 70s. there were problems with them then, &
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#5
how do you explain the pre-1925 rise in murder and the drop circa 1937-1965? Lead began
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#10
yes, they line up well for the crime of aggravated assault, in the cities chosen, in the time
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#52
Prohibition ended on 12/5/1933 and professionally manufactured alcohol became more readily available
AnotherMcIntosh
Jan 2013
#34
'it's possible....' but unlikely to have had such a large effect on murder rates.
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#39
why should it adjust for *any* causes? it's a graph of the murder rate, period. i'm not shouting
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#43
The rate of people being Killed in Europe in 1946 was a HUGE DROP from from 1944
happyslug
Jan 2013
#69
Military deaths/war deaths aren't part of the murder rate statistics. They're part of the general
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#98
Lead paint, and the switch from lead pipe water systems after 1900, better reporting
happyslug
Jan 2013
#62
i'm not convinced by all the ad hoc, maybe this maybe that stuff on lead pipes & lead paint,
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#79
I already acknowledged the point about national data. But we do have data for a lot of big
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#86
There was chipping paint in rural homes too. And there was chipping lead paint circa 1910-
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#111
Yes, & what was the lead source that declined precipitously in the 1910s-20s such that the murder
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#108
lead is a *proven* toxin, & has *proven* effects on physical & mental development (i.e developmental
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#122
Your math is wrong. 1935 plus at least 20 years (more for cumulative effect) is 1955
SharonAnn
Jan 2013
#66
lead began being added to fuel about 1925, not 1935. murder rates dropped dramatically ~1937-1965.
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#74
200 cars/1000 people in 1930 = 200% increase from 1900, 100% increase from 1920. And car
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#87
Purchased of cars were concentrated in the Rural and Suburban areas prior to WWII
happyslug
Jan 2013
#96
'Freakanomics" is right-wing garbage, Steve Levitt is a right-wing hack, and this lead theory
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#89
it was in the book too; not directly, but the whole argument turns on differential abortion rates
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#107
Gas isn't/wasn't the only delivery mechanism, though--lead paint was an issue too.
MADem
Jan 2013
#102
No, it wasn't, but none of the other sources you mention disappeared in the teens and 20s, which
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#110
Well, they didn't all have to die--they could come home wounded, or with PTSD, or healthy--
MADem
Jan 2013
#117
same could be said of vietnam vets, but it didn't happen. this is all ad hoc rationalizing because
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#119
Not so much...for example, it's pretty well-accepted that lead exposure = decreased IQ.
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#123
why would lead just affect violent crime rates? rather than crime generally, i mean.
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#11
Because it's specifically violent crime that's linked to lead poisoning?
Spider Jerusalem
Jan 2013
#41
lol. i read your link. the theoretical construct cited has to do with impulse control, which isn't
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#46
none of which are specific to aggravated assault or violence. but speaking of drugs:
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#54
That was a drug war, something generally removed when it comes to overall murder rates
happyslug
Jan 2013
#68
and did the authors of such studies control for effects of 'drug war'? & how is it possible to
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#71
that's a reason we might pay more attention to violent crime stats rather than other crime stats,
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#73
around here we used to have many murders, shootings by the foreign gang bangers..then Obama was
Sunlei
Jan 2013
#56
Except the correlation between eliminating leaded gasoline and declining violent crime...
Spider Jerusalem
Jan 2013
#12
I don't believe that just because someone says so in a news report. I can see it doesn't
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#15
but i haven't read those papers, and no one has posted them on DU. they posted news reports.
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#19
as you are the sort of person who thinks name-calling is an acceptable discussion tactic, you
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#26
i didn't say incarceration rates always follow violent crimes rates. i posted the stats on incar-
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#33
Thank God for the uk/eu news and uk medical reports or Americans would never know what harms them.
Sunlei
Jan 2013
#55
except most of the research was done in the us & reported in the us as well.
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#57
not these days, the corporations have much stronger control and our American news has declined.
Sunlei
Jan 2013
#58
yeah, that's why outlets like "forbes" are discussing this research (done in the us), because of
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#100
the main way used to be leaded paint & gas. since both were banned, average blood levels of lead
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#18
Check the CDC, which keeps stats on lead across 50 states. Their data do correlate high lead
ancianita
Jan 2013
#20
can you link to one of those pages where these correlations are shown or described?
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#36
My mistatement. I meant that their lead measures data are correlated by others with crime. I'm
ancianita
Jan 2013
#81
Thanks. There's data from national to local levels, and it's all helping to make this case.
ancianita
Jan 2013
#104
you apparently didn't read what i posted. It says two things: most of the data just shows
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#109
perhaps the answer today is the medical treatment with chelators as a routine health care.
Sunlei
Jan 2013
#40
Too bad you are already tomb-stoned. Now you'll never know what's silly about that statement.
cthulu2016
Jan 2013
#91