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renie408

(9,854 posts)
138. So, why do you think that it is in the natures of chimpanzees to go to war
Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:22 PM
Dec 2012

but not in the nature of man? And what, exactly, is your evidence that war is not in man's nature?

And WHEN did we have that 40,000 years of communal culture? And what was the population of the planet during that time? Do you not think that maybe, just MAYBE, our lack of war for that period had more to do with low population density obviating the need to fight over resources than that violence is not within man's nature?

And why do you assume that the people that think that violence and war are part and parcel of the human experience are wrong when human beings have been going to war for 5500 years? They have evidence of large scale war in Syria in 3500 BC.

And still with the arrogant, patronizing tone. "It's not that you don't know, it's that so much of what you do know is wrong." Were you ruefully shaking your head with a pitying little smile on your lips as you wrote that?? *sigh* How hard it must be to be a towering intellectual such as yourself and having to deal with us mere plebeians. But you know, I would think a towering intellectual could manage to have a discussion without resorting to an ad hominem attack in his first response.

Look, I think you are full of shit. And pretty full of yourself, too. You want to present yourself as knowledgeable and wise and blah blah blah, but your first comment in this thread was an ad hominem attack, you formed assumptions about me with zero evidence and your arguments are, frankly, crap. You can throw around all the $10 words you want, if you are stringing them together to form sentences like "War is an artificial construct that we indoctrinate the tabula rasa of our children with because we were ourselves inculcated with this falsehood." then the only thing you are accomplishing is looking like a pseudo intellectual ass. Primarily because if you had ever had more than one kid, you would know that we don't have to write upon their blank slates the urge to do violence upon one another. Actually, it is pretty much the opposite. You spend all the first ten years telling them to STOP doing violence upon one another. Kids pretty much come programmed with territoriality and the urge to violently defend what is theirs. And since just about all OTHER animals also hit the ground the same way, it is not particularly surprising.

Or are we indoctrinating the tabula rasa's of the chimpanzee babies, too?? Jesus, man, you seriously need to get over yourself.



Me too alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #1
Well, hell -- me three! villager Dec 2012 #3
Me too! burrowowl Dec 2012 #75
Good luck with that. renie408 Dec 2012 #2
Riddle me this, Batman: What good have leaders done? Taverner Dec 2012 #5
Hey!! You should lead that revolt!! ...no...wait.... renie408 Dec 2012 #18
+1 Johonny Dec 2012 #25
lol Hydra Dec 2012 #45
+ 2. BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #76
Ha ha ha...plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose!!!! MADem Dec 2012 #79
“The past is never dead. It’s not even past.” n/t jtuck004 Dec 2012 #94
The people never would have marched without the leaders exhorting them to jtuck004 Dec 2012 #59
The marchers made the most difference tho Taverner Dec 2012 #64
The "marchers" didn't, because people don't, spontaneously erupt into contradicting jtuck004 Dec 2012 #67
Anarchy doesn't mean no leaders Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #71
Ok, ty. n/t jtuck004 Dec 2012 #93
You merely expose your profound ignorance. n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #73
It's profound ignorance to think that anarchy renie408 Dec 2012 #81
Please see Spain 1936 - 1939. Noam Chomsky gave a very enlightening talk on how Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #82
You say 'flippant' like it was a bad thing. renie408 Dec 2012 #85
Anarchy is not lack of structure. That is antinomianism or autonomism Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #90
Anarchy is freedom from government. renie408 Dec 2012 #92
Freedom from governance is not absence of leadership. The essential difference is that anarchy, Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #96
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. renie408 Dec 2012 #99
Words do indeed have specific meanings, you just don't understand them. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #105
Is it typical anarchist fashion to ignore renie408 Dec 2012 #108
We both do in our ways. He has tenure at MIT and I simply don't participate in this Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #114
I don't have anybody on 'ignore'. renie408 Dec 2012 #118
Your position regarding the Spanish Anarchists boils down to might makes right. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #120
No renie408 Dec 2012 #121
Human nature allowed for just this kind of communal based culture for 40,000 years. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #137
So, why do you think that it is in the natures of chimpanzees to go to war renie408 Dec 2012 #138
It isn't. There is a big difference between acquisitive violence and organized slaughter. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #140
Also... renie408 Dec 2012 #139
You mean the three years where 1,000,000 people were killed and the country was destroyed? Throd Dec 2012 #97
Yes. The other part you were never taught, or most likely never even heard of. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #98
I think his point is that if you have to kill a million people, it ain't exactly Utopia. renie408 Dec 2012 #100
It wasn't the anarchists that were killing a million people, that was the revolution they weren't Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #103
Ok... renie408 Dec 2012 #106
So your position is that you choose to ignore the living testimony of those that were there, Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #112
Again with the picking and choosing definitions... renie408 Dec 2012 #113
Wouldn't you like to know. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #115
I am not the one who started this entire discussion renie408 Dec 2012 #119
Then you are also anti-statist. banned from Kos Dec 2012 #4
Not necessarily alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #7
+100 Taverner Dec 2012 #15
Anti-Westphalian-nation-state, you might say (nt) Recursion Dec 2012 #35
The state would not be necesarry if we could control our corporations Taverner Dec 2012 #9
The Wealth of Nations and the Declaration of Indepdence were published in the same year Recursion Dec 2012 #126
Iceland does a tolerably good job having a classless society Exultant Democracy Dec 2012 #6
Iceland has a population of 300K people Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #10
But - they are eliminating "leadership" Taverner Dec 2012 #13
No, they aren't Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #16
Iceland is eliminating the idea of leadership Taverner Dec 2012 #11
Then it sounds like you need to update that passport!! renie408 Dec 2012 #21
A love it or leave it post. I forgot how annoying those are. white_wolf Dec 2012 #28
+100 Taverner Dec 2012 #36
No - America, if any place, can understand Anarchism better than any country Taverner Dec 2012 #37
Don't forget the Wobblies! One Big Union. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #44
The IWW! Taverner Dec 2012 #57
Every American should keep their passport up to date. Far to few americans travel abroad. Exultant Democracy Dec 2012 #50
Except that will never happen. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #8
Sigh - yes, you are right. But that can't stop me from dreaming. Taverner Dec 2012 #12
What kind of Anarchist? JaneyVee Dec 2012 #14
Anarcho-Syndicalist Taverner Dec 2012 #17
The best kind! JaneyVee Dec 2012 #19
How many Anarchists does it take to screw in a light bulb? WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #20
Correction: Screw you(r own light bulb in)! Hydra Dec 2012 #46
Depends on the size of the light bulb Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #70
Well us commies know the difference......... socialist_n_TN Dec 2012 #22
What's the difference between your position and a Libertarian Socialist? Xithras Dec 2012 #23
Libertarian Socialism is pretty close to what I believe Taverner Dec 2012 #29
I think Anarcho-Syndicalism is a set of libertarian socialism. white_wolf Dec 2012 #31
So you're trying to define 'anarchism'. randome Dec 2012 #24
No - I am trying to define myself. Taverner Dec 2012 #26
Got it. Just curious. randome Dec 2012 #32
"All they do is bring down productivity" NoOneMan Dec 2012 #27
Because if a worker is concerned with productivity... Taverner Dec 2012 #33
Thats not what I want, no NoOneMan Dec 2012 #38
Indeed! immoderate Dec 2012 #53
Without a power structure threatening deprivation, or worse, this too is a self-correcting problem. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #83
I think there's a "zero work" strain of anarchism... Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #65
Anarcho-primitivism is more what I am referring to NoOneMan Dec 2012 #68
How many people will die in the process anarcho-primitivsm? white_wolf Dec 2012 #109
How many people die currently? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #122
I disagree with you. I think Democratic Socialism can use technology correctly. white_wolf Dec 2012 #135
No, thats not the framework Im looking at things from NoOneMan Dec 2012 #136
I believe that we are all aready our own authorities. ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #30
+100 Taverner Dec 2012 #34
I think you're describing a natural human instinct for not wanting to be bossed around by limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #39
+100 Taverner Dec 2012 #41
Sorry, buddy. Doesn't work. sibelian Dec 2012 #40
How can you tolerate being bossed around without a plan change this? Taverner Dec 2012 #42
Well, sir, I don't like it. But... sibelian Dec 2012 #43
You found a good boss. Guess what? That great boss is a CO-WORKER!!! Taverner Dec 2012 #49
Ahhhhhh. sibelian Dec 2012 #58
Hey Taverner, Me Too... Tace Dec 2012 #47
Cheers! Taverner Dec 2012 #48
I've seen that sort of thing too easily gamed & the result was that those least equipped to deal patrice Dec 2012 #51
And all hell would break loose. babylonsister Dec 2012 #52
So you're saying that without the threat of punishment, you would somehow go berserk? n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #84
What do you think of Kropotkin's ideas then? Stargleamer Dec 2012 #54
I like Kropotkin Taverner Dec 2012 #56
Kropotkin was the guy who was anti-religion right? Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #62
Back then the church served the rich Taverner Dec 2012 #63
A friend of mine who may or may not be religious Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #69
Take me to your leader. Iggo Dec 2012 #55
Step into this sphere, you'll find him in the corner. n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #74
Fuck Tha GA Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #60
I was an anarchist once, then I turned 14 CBGLuthier Dec 2012 #61
And became an anarcho-syndicalist? Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #78
Junior high gym classes sucked enough the first time around. (nt) Posteritatis Dec 2012 #66
As an egalitarian I have always liked the anarchist system. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #72
I used to be one of those Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #77
"I is a princess of chaos and I is VERY IMPORTANT and we wants Hell too! sibelian Dec 2012 #80
Quakers are leaderless quaker bill Dec 2012 #86
Excellent and interesting post. Thank you. nt woo me with science Dec 2012 #88
Part of the problem with America right now woo me with science Dec 2012 #87
Well, you know what they say Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #89
Occupy. We have no leaders ~ We are all leaders. Zorra Dec 2012 #91
+1000 Taverner Dec 2012 #95
Where are you posting from? renie408 Dec 2012 #111
Lovely post. Thank you. woo me with science Dec 2012 #101
A lot of people have a difficult time wrapping their heads around this concept. Thanks for putting Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #116
Has Occupy brought about any change? wtmusic Dec 2012 #123
Your not an Anarchist, your Utopian . orpupilofnature57 Dec 2012 #102
I'm both - so? Taverner Dec 2012 #104
See you in the next world where Humans don't elevate scum above orpupilofnature57 Dec 2012 #117
Or we gradually work twards the goal, expecting to see none of it in our lifetimes Taverner Dec 2012 #132
You mean like Bane advocated? NashvilleLefty Dec 2012 #107
Bane? you mean Batman Bane? white_wolf Dec 2012 #110
Meh, those who shun leaders are the first ones that want to lead. Javaman Dec 2012 #124
I am an Arachnist wtmusic Dec 2012 #125
All hail the spider god! Taverner Dec 2012 #133
why not move to Iraq? samsingh Dec 2012 #127
That's just stupid. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #129
not as stupid as wanting no leadership and wanting anarchy without understanding its consequences samsingh Dec 2012 #130
Wow...you need to get a dictonary bro Taverner Dec 2012 #131
okay - i'll do some reading samsingh Dec 2012 #134
Just remember that Anarchy is often confused with Nihilism n/t intaglio Dec 2012 #128
Or another way to put that chrisknight02 Jan 2013 #141
+1000....welcome to DU! Taverner Jan 2013 #142
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