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BrentWil

(2,384 posts)

71. Free movement of labor is also an important goal, and something to work for NT

Reply to PETRUS (Reply #54)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 02:37 AM

Jan 2012

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Both China and India are Amazing Stories of Poverty Reduction... We Should Stop Demonizing Them [View all] BrentWil Jan 2012 OP

their rates go down and ours go up - while our corporate masters get ever richer nt msongs Jan 2012 #1

That is actually not true... BrentWil Jan 2012 #3

Half the babies born in America are on WIC and more Americans have trouble finding food than Chinese Zalatix Jan 2012 #11

If you are on WIC, you are getting more then $1.25 a day to live on BrentWil Jan 2012 #14

The only way you will help America's poor is to bring American jobs back. Zalatix Jan 2012 #19

Well, "jobs" are coming back... BrentWil Jan 2012 #22

The jobs coming back are very few, and most are very low paying. Your argument is dying here. Zalatix Jan 2012 #27

Those "jobs" aren't coming back... BrentWil Jan 2012 #37

Wrong, wrong, factually wrong, and wrong again. Your math is way, way off. Zalatix Jan 2012 #45

Demand for workers will always go down.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #48

I call bullshit. Show us the new markets. Show us the jobs. Our standard of living is plummeting. Zalatix Jan 2012 #57

Here... BrentWil Jan 2012 #68

Total avoidance of my argument. Because at this point you've got nothin' left. Zalatix Jan 2012 #85

Said poster is a free trade advocate. HughBeaumont Jan 2012 #97

Why is it that your side of the argument treestar Jan 2012 #105

Come live in Northeast Ohio, specifically from 1975-present, and you'll see why. HughBeaumont Jan 2012 #108

That's a label treestar Jan 2012 #109

Point to where anyone's demonizing the workers. I'm certainly not. HughBeaumont Jan 2012 #110

You still don't get it - America is rebelling against your point of view. Zalatix Jan 2012 #112

You are... I think the President just passed a free trade agreement with... BrentWil Jan 2012 #133

"Said poster is a free trade advocate" is not a personal attack, it is the truth. Zalatix Jan 2012 #114

I'd lean toward saying good luck selling your crap with a 10,000 tariff. TheKentuckian Jan 2012 #158

What are you talking about... BrentWil Jan 2012 #132

By 2015 there won't be enough pro-offshoring people left in America to fill a phone booth. Zalatix Jan 2012 #146

That is not true. When 8-hour workday was introduced demand for workers went up. Fool Count Jan 2012 #144

$1.25/day goes a lot further some places than it does in the US. Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #26

You can play with the relative numbers some... BrentWil Jan 2012 #35

Let's get this straight. China and India are free to get out of poverty. They're NOT free Zalatix Jan 2012 #36

I don't even understand what that means... BrentWil Jan 2012 #39

It's not a zero sum game. It's a negative sum game. If you disagree then please show Zalatix Jan 2012 #53

Job creation numbers since.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #60

2 things wrong with your argument: 1) Job growth isn't matching population growth, and Zalatix Jan 2012 #73

Depends what sort of job, BrentWil Jan 2012 #134

Correction: MOST new jobs created pay very little. Zalatix Jan 2012 #143

Yes.. we have to follow policies that help the American worker.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #150

Tariffs is not isolationism. Otherwise China is isolationist. Do you get it yet? Zalatix Jan 2012 #157

They are a degree of it.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #169

"When people make more then $1.25 a day, we can sell them things. " eShirl Jan 2012 #162

People will and are making more then $1.25 a day.. this is just a measurement for people BrentWil Jan 2012 #170

Exactly loyalsister Jan 2012 #124

Actual deaths from starvation are rare... BrentWil Jan 2012 #135

I realize that loyalsister Jan 2012 #149

That is actually my point BrentWil Jan 2012 #151

We can't buy as much for $1.25 as you can in an underdeveloped country. JDPriestly Jan 2012 #91

Wrong, Mr. Globalist unlawflcombatnt Jan 2012 #120

I most certainly will not..... ingac70 Jan 2012 #2

I hear that. +1000 And here's one about China. Zalatix Jan 2012 #7

The video talks about how 70% of India's child labourers are employed in agriculture. Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #8

Hopefully that is sarcasm... BrentWil Jan 2012 #12

"Much of India used child labor on farms for centuries." Much of the world really. Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #13

No. That was my point. BrentWil Jan 2012 #15

Maybe India should employ all their 9 year-olds as janitors like Newt Gingrich suggested. Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #23

Or create a system in which they educate all their citizens... one or the other BrentWil Jan 2012 #29

I'm certain that if they give all their 9 year-olds janitorial jobs, they'll all become millionaires Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #44

I'm sure pro-offshoring free traders will find a way to offshore janitorial work while promising us Zalatix Jan 2012 #38

Your point? How about reality. Reality is, we are encouraging slavery by offshoring jobs. Zalatix Jan 2012 #33

So what? unlawflcombatnt Jan 2012 #159

Did I argue that India doesn't have problems? BrentWil Jan 2012 #9

.... ingac70 Jan 2012 #4

And many of those workers will die of "brown lung" Mopar151 Jan 2012 #21

Bingo. Another pro-offshoring thread chokes on its poor logic. n/t Zalatix Jan 2012 #34

Do they have problems? BrentWil Jan 2012 #42

If they are polluting their environment in order to earn $5.00 per day, JDPriestly Jan 2012 #92

More importantly unlawflcombatnt Jan 2012 #160

Name the jobs created in America by offshoring to India and China, please. Zalatix Jan 2012 #5

How do you "run out of jobs"? Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #10

How do we run out of jobs? Easy. When we become too poor to import goods. Zalatix Jan 2012 #16

Did you really just cite Mises? I'll respond in full tomorrow, but I need to get to sleep. /nt Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #43

Well, for India and CHina we export a lot of products... BrentWil Jan 2012 #18

Trade hurts us more than it helps us. We lose more jobs than we bring in. It's a negative sum game. Zalatix Jan 2012 #28

Would our country have been better if New York couldn't freely trade with New Jersey? BrentWil Jan 2012 #41

Glad you brought that up. PETRUS Jan 2012 #54

Free movement of labor is also an important goal, and something to work for NT BrentWil Jan 2012 #71

Ohhh nice idea. So Americans should be chasing jobs into places like this Zalatix Jan 2012 #80

+1 redqueen Jan 2012 #125

No, I want an expanding middle class BrentWil Jan 2012 #161

You will never get an expanding middle class as long as we outsource jobs. So... Zalatix Jan 2012 #163

Powerful lobbies prevent it. PETRUS Jan 2012 #87

Bill? Is that you? pipoman Jan 2012 #72

OMFG I am weak from laughing so hard. That was unbelievably, hilariously harsh. Zalatix Jan 2012 #86

But we import far more from these countries than we export -- even at their cheap labor prices. JDPriestly Jan 2012 #93

nope, India is corrupt with a Huge Gap in Wealth, lack of enforcement of laws JI7 Jan 2012 #6

They have problems... BrentWil Jan 2012 #17

Instead you demonize Americans by saying more of us should lose our jobs. Zalatix Jan 2012 #20

Can you provide a quote where I said that? BrentWil Jan 2012 #25

You said, "We don't have to keep demonizing other societies that "take our jobs."" Zalatix Jan 2012 #31

No one is trying to "cower" you... However, you are living in a dream world. BrentWil Jan 2012 #46

True, the world is not returning to 1950 brentspeak Jan 2012 #55

LOL!!!!!! I hear that. Zalatix Jan 2012 #67

Your arguments are sheer delusion. Especially the "win-win" part. It's been all LOSS for America. Zalatix Jan 2012 #66

We won't be over 20% of the world's GDP once we do that... NT BrentWil Jan 2012 #70

Provided you give up any pretense of not being the bad guys. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #131

All the education in the world isn't going to trump "Cheap" in the eyes of a CEO. HughBeaumont Jan 2012 #98

yes, but i'm not sure how much or where the improvement is JI7 Jan 2012 #24

The numbers giving or those moving from living on less then $1.25 a day to more then $1.25 a day NT BrentWil Jan 2012 #30

You want to see how we're REALLY helping them? See this link. Zalatix Jan 2012 #32

We have high consumption, so what? BrentWil Jan 2012 #40

You totally didn't read the link. I showed IN DETAIL that we're literally KILLING the third world Zalatix Jan 2012 #47

We are killing them, besides for the fact a lot of them are now living off of more then $1.25 a day BrentWil Jan 2012 #50

When it comes at the expense of our jobs and their environment, YES!!! Zalatix Jan 2012 #63

And that was the U.S. in the 1950s or earlier treestar Jan 2012 #104

Aaaaaaand it's *crickets* once again. redqueen Jan 2012 #126

Different issue.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #136

Does it matter? girl gone mad Jan 2012 #61

That isn't the only means they are escaping.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #65

Those are the only choices? girl gone mad Jan 2012 #89

Everything must be monetized, and the number of transactions must increase. PETRUS Jan 2012 #77

It did happen with the US and the west treestar Jan 2012 #101

Why are you ALWAYS found siding against the American worker? Zalatix Jan 2012 #128

F@%& THE PRC!!! n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #49

Yeah.. we should go bomb them or something.. that would be cool... hahaha BrentWil Jan 2012 #51

If you wish to express sarcasm... ellisonz Jan 2012 #58

Yeah, because China was much better off in 1945.. wait, I mean 1929.... wait I mean 1890... wait... BrentWil Jan 2012 #64

Yeah, I don't know what you mean either. ellisonz Jan 2012 #69

So you're saying the people in China deserve to suffer because of these political things? treestar Jan 2012 #102

China can get rich without taking American jobs. Do you get it yet? Zalatix Jan 2012 #113

How are jobs assigned to a country? treestar Jan 2012 #118

You still, still don't get it. We lose far more jobs than we gain from trade. Why do you deny this? Zalatix Jan 2012 #119

How do you assign jobs to a country? treestar Jan 2012 #166

Oh that's easy. Zalatix Jan 2012 #168

Maybe the people living under the PRC want us to stand-up for them? ellisonz Jan 2012 #121

Who knew that the US Chamber of Commerce had someone posting brentspeak Jan 2012 #52

ad hominem attacks are always silly... BrentWil Jan 2012 #56

How about, "Your arguments are the same that we hear from the US Chamber of Commerce" Zalatix Jan 2012 #59

How about, I like less people in the World living off less then $1.25 a day... BrentWil Jan 2012 #62

How about, let them do it without taking our jobs from us? Zalatix Jan 2012 #75

Jobs move and jobs are created.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #79

You're wrong for the 100th time. Jobs move out of the USA more than they are created. Zalatix Jan 2012 #81

Why is the US economy now creating jobs? BrentWil Jan 2012 #152

For the thousandth time, I'll re-explain this to you, PLEASE pay attention Zalatix Jan 2012 #156

That's exactly what I thought too Populist_Prole Jan 2012 #76

Brent is finding out the hard way that nobody's buying that "offshoring = win for America" bullshit Zalatix Jan 2012 #84

China's population will peak and start to shrink due to their disregard for pollution in an attempt cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #74

China's problem isn't that.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #78

Good point. Gender-based abortion will lead to lower birth rates. cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #83

Been nice, got to go to bed BrentWil Jan 2012 #82

Sorry this thread didn't go the way you planned. It happens to me too, sometimes! Zalatix Jan 2012 #88

Having to go to sleep isn't me saying your arguments are correct or founded BrentWil Jan 2012 #99

The problem is that as their poverty decreases, ours increases. JDPriestly Jan 2012 #90

Well said. "It should be possible to alleviate the poverty in India and China without increasing it pampango Jan 2012 #115

Another difference. PETRUS Jan 2012 #117

This is good news but clearly there are other associated problems.. DCBob Jan 2012 #94

Bookmarked. Bil Moyers had a great show recently on how progressive countries pampango Jan 2012 #95

I would agree... BrentWil Jan 2012 #100

It's nice to know someone is benefitting by doing what used to be our jobs lunatica Jan 2012 #96

In fairness, if they were all "our jobs" treestar Jan 2012 #103

Yeah, the people get screwed everywhere. lunatica Jan 2012 #147

Not really, the third world countries are getting a taste of what we did in the early 20th century treestar Jan 2012 #165

And jobs are starting to come back anyway treestar Jan 2012 #106

Contrary to the economic propaganda piece you link to brentspeak Jan 2012 #111

You ought to be deleted for the last line treestar Jan 2012 #116

Apple's Jobs to Obama: "jobs aren't coming back" to U.S. redqueen Jan 2012 #127

Someday that won't be the case treestar Jan 2012 #167

I've heard this BS over ten years ago, coming from a friend who is RW newspeak Jan 2012 #107

China and India are separate cases that shouldn't be lumped together. limpyhobbler Jan 2012 #122

Of course they aren't the same.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #140

Both China and India are Amazing Stories of Corporate Exploitation. AdHocSolver Jan 2012 #123

Excellent post! Populist_Prole Jan 2012 #129

Well said. As Redqueen said, your post will get "Crickets!!!" for a response Zalatix Jan 2012 #130

What the hell... BrentWil Jan 2012 #138

Nonsense links? Show which links were nonsense. You can't. You absolutely cannot do that. Zalatix Jan 2012 #141

Nothing like comparing people from a proud democratic tradition (India) BrentWil Jan 2012 #137

You have a unique talent for twisting another person's words to create a straw man. AdHocSolver Jan 2012 #148

You are comparing the results of economic reforms done by a democracy to American Slavery... BrentWil Jan 2012 #154

I am also acquainted with an Indian family living in the US. Very nice people, very intelligent... BrentWil Jan 2012 #155

well, at least the hunter-gatherers newspeak Jan 2012 #164

You have very little proof that their life was one of leisure... BrentWil Jan 2012 #171

Isn't the OP basically praising a return to the Laissez-Faire Capitalism of the late 1800s? Leopolds Ghost Jan 2012 #139

No. I am not... BrentWil Jan 2012 #142

You are praising the elimination of extreme poverty at the expense of American workers Zalatix Jan 2012 #145

I have kind of an issue with China. SomethingFishy Jan 2012 #153

There are always problems... BrentWil Jan 2012 #172