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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:43 PM Dec 2012

Krugman: Rumors of a Deal (WTF?) - updated [View all]

Rumors of a Deal

It sounds as if Ezra Klein is hearing more or less the same things I’m hearing...Unlike what we’d heard from Republicans before, this contains stuff that Obama can’t get just by letting us go over the cliff: more revenue than he could get just from tax-cut expiration, unemployment and infrastructure too. But it has a cost, those benefit cuts.

Those cuts are a very bad thing, although there will supposedly be some protection for low-income seniors. But the cuts are not nearly as bad as raising the Medicare age, for two reasons: the structure of the program remains intact, and unlike the Medicare age thing, they wouldn’t be totally devastating for hundreds of thousands of people, just somewhat painful for a much larger group. Oh, and raising the Medicare age would kill people; this benefit cut, not so much.

The point is that we shouldn’t be doing benefit cuts at all; but if benefit cuts are the price of a deal that is better than no deal, much better that they involve the CPI adjustment than the retirement age.

But is this rumored deal better than no deal? I’m on the edge. It’s not clear that going over the cliff would yield something better; on the other hand, those benefit cuts are really bad, and you hate to see a Democratic president lending his name to something like that. There is a case for refusing to make this deal, and hoping for a popular backlash against the GOP that transforms the whole debate; but there’s also an argument that this might not work.

- more -

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/rumors-of-a-deal

Let me get this straight. The President and Democrats have repeatedly said that Social Security has nothing to do with the deficit.

Raising the age for Medicare, which is a driver of the deficit because it's linked to health care costs, is taken off the table because it's a stupid idea that doesn't save money and will "kill people."

Now there are rumors of a deal involving cuts to Social Security benefits?

What the fuck for? Why is a program that has nothing to do with the deficit being dragged into the negotiations?

Are these people seriously determined to cause seniors pain for the hell of it?

There is stupid, raising the Medicare age, and then there is fucking stupid, this current rumor.

I'm surprised at Krugman's piece after he wrote this:

Krugman: No Deal, Continued
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022013316

Updated to add, we just had a fucking election:



What the millionaires want versus what the voters want
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/07/1162018/-What-the-millionaires-want-versus-what-the-voters-want

107 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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This better not be true Blaukraut Dec 2012 #1
I seriously wonder if ProSense Dec 2012 #5
and shoot seltzer down each other's pants.. russspeakeasy Dec 2012 #15
Don't ask, don't tell... awoke_in_2003 Dec 2012 #64
Sadly the rightwing media complex humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #34
a majority of both democratic & republican voters support raising taxes on the rich. if this is HiPointDem Dec 2012 #55
+1 HiPointDem Dec 2012 #52
Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #59
Social Security has nothing to do with the deficit, assuming even the deficit is important enough byeya Dec 2012 #2
exactly, we've been paying it up since the 1980's WashingtonConsensus Dec 2012 #44
No worries. MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #3
If he does, you get to gloat and say I told you so. ProSense Dec 2012 #7
Not really gloating... MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #8
It's also a hidden tax increase on the poor and middle class... Luminous Animal Dec 2012 #13
I never saw it as a bluff. If Obama cuts Social Security you plethoro Dec 2012 #28
+1. if he goes for cuts, that's about it for me and the democratic party, i.e. the republican-lite HiPointDem Dec 2012 #70
I would love to be wrong about an Obama capitulation, someday, myself. villager Dec 2012 #33
It was said by many on this board that entitlement cuts would be made by the lame duck plethoro Dec 2012 #36
If this is true, there are several on DU that should seriously consider self exile. A Simple Game Dec 2012 #51
Hey, give credit to people owning what they have said jsmirman Dec 2012 #53
I reserve judgment until we know just what is going to happen. A Simple Game Dec 2012 #100
I am seriously concerned jsmirman Dec 2012 #102
You just don't understand n-dimensional chess, Manny. Jackpine Radical Dec 2012 #80
And it's been made abundantly clear in that post that this is JUST A RUMOR. BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #60
First off, it's now being reported as fact MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #65
Whose fact? The anonymous source's? Who is this person? A Republican mole? BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #99
you think they can make $400 billion in cuts to medicare & it won't affect recipients? i gotta HiPointDem Dec 2012 #84
Yes, I do. You're forgetting that we now have the PPACA and a public option on its BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #96
well, we're going to see. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #101
Why am I not surprised you'd respond this way? I guess nothing Obama does BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #104
I think obama is much more presidential than bush was and michelle has been one of the best HiPointDem Dec 2012 #105
Why is that? BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #106
if the white house didn't want the terms to be public, i assume they wouldn't have released them. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #107
An earlier question ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #4
It will eventually be a 10% cut in benefits. IIRC MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #11
So billionaires can stay rich? NO! aquart Dec 2012 #24
Thanks ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #39
it'll eventually be a ticket to the cemetery, because the cuts don't end after 10 years. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #85
A chained CPI if inflation goes up will be disastrous for low-income plethoro Dec 2012 #76
Oh good, so despite two years straight of zero SS COLA, the CPI they used is too lavish? DJ13 Dec 2012 #6
Actually, the official CPI used for older Americans shows *higher* inflation than what's used now MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #12
I hope this isn't true! neverforget Dec 2012 #9
That's right: It's the Chinese death-of-a-thousand-cuts byeya Dec 2012 #10
FWIW, I don't think it will happen quite this way. MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #14
Is raising the cap on SS payroll deductions even talked about anymore? Blaukraut Dec 2012 #16
Nah, that would cost money for rich people. nt MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #17
^^^ this ^^^ TDale313 Dec 2012 #22
It's not a robbery in their minds, Manny, it's their own money Trailrider1951 Dec 2012 #57
A deal to hurt the elderly and vulnerable. forestpath Dec 2012 #18
Oh, yay. Hanging us out to dry again. Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #19
If either program is cut significantly, you can plethoro Dec 2012 #31
dammit abelenkpe Dec 2012 #20
Did you catch the "Speculative Outrage" bug or something? nt Bonobo Dec 2012 #21
You misunderstand ProSense Dec 2012 #27
I would have assumed it is the reverse. Bonobo Dec 2012 #29
It's bizarro world stupid. ProSense Dec 2012 #30
Divorced from reality. Bonobo Dec 2012 #35
Groovy ProSense Dec 2012 #40
IMO, ANY two party "system" Bonobo Dec 2012 #43
When the fuck did it become the Democrats' job to save the Republican Party? DJ13 Dec 2012 #46
What do Robert Reich & Senator Sanders say? Sanders has spoken strongly against CPI, right? Is this patrice Dec 2012 #23
Who are you and what have you done with ProSense? Fumesucker Dec 2012 #25
ALL CUTS COME FROM DOD. Period. on point Dec 2012 #26
you can say so, but right now it stands are $100B from military, $130B from SS, $400B from medical. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #86
Explanation: elleng Dec 2012 #32
Sounds like rationalization ProSense Dec 2012 #37
At this point, I'm going to trust Obama. FreeBC Dec 2012 #38
Trust but verify democrattotheend Dec 2012 #103
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-boehner-meet-as-debt-talks-intensify/2012/12/17/6b43c24 wilsonbooks Dec 2012 #41
I know I will get s**it for this, but I think the deal sounds Hoyt Dec 2012 #42
Do you know how much the chained CPI eventually cuts SS payments? MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #45
Manny it's not much in early years, especially when inflation is low. Hoyt Dec 2012 #50
It should not be part of the deficit negotiations. ProSense Dec 2012 #56
I'll bet my ass there is an increase in the cap too. You wait. Hoyt Dec 2012 #61
currently, the average 65-year-old lives to 85 MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #62
Manny, if it gets bad they will do something in a few years ASSUMING the economy is doing well. Hoyt Dec 2012 #73
There is zero need to make any cuts. MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #75
Thank God for Krugman to set us straight. Hoyt Dec 2012 #79
"and I'm assuming it works out like this" Nope, ProSense Dec 2012 #48
Sorry, I think you are wrong. If that's the deal, I'd take it and move on. Hoyt Dec 2012 #58
No, you're ProSense Dec 2012 #66
So Krugman is a liar and tool of the right on this. Hoyt Dec 2012 #71
Krugman: ProSense Dec 2012 #72
And he also said chained CPI is a small price to pay for rest of deal, like no Medicare age increase Hoyt Dec 2012 #74
What stimulus money do you even begin to think a new mass transit system there is? TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #82
R U M O R S.....we'll see spanone Dec 2012 #47
In the end it's up to us to put pressure on congress to say no if this is true. loyalkydem Dec 2012 #49
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Dec 2012 #54
KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #63
I'm darn sure for that. Hoyt Dec 2012 #83
We need to cut at the top Rosa Luxemburg Dec 2012 #67
I think we should cut Congress. That would be a HUGE savings, in graft alone. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #78
Go ahead and burn me at the stake cheapdate Dec 2012 #68
I agree, but only as long as lower income/wealth people aren't hurt. Hoyt Dec 2012 #87
How do they own the cuts? They can't pass them. TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #88
Much like the deficit reduction act of 2005...the poor and middle class will have less adirondacker Dec 2012 #69
seems like we're doing a hell of a lot of sacrificing while the bankster class's profits just keep HiPointDem Dec 2012 #77
I was hopeful that the Dems would repeal the act once in power.... adirondacker Dec 2012 #95
Sounds like a decent deal that will prevent a recession BrentWil Dec 2012 #81
I hope it's ProSense Dec 2012 #89
Yes but changing the index does save money and isn't reasonable BrentWil Dec 2012 #91
Good deal if you are never going to need Social Security or Medicare liberal N proud Dec 2012 #97
No problem. Obama will veto any bill that cuts SS, Medicare, or other social programs. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2012 #90
Dream on BrentWil Dec 2012 #92
Hear, hear Babel_17 Dec 2012 #93
"Thank you for contacting the White House." Babel_17 Dec 2012 #94
st. reagan smiles in hell datasuspect Dec 2012 #98
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