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haele

(12,566 posts)
138. Evaluate, document and provide the proper paperwork!
Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:17 PM
Dec 2012

The union is supposed to represent the worker, whether they be a hard charger or a lazy bum. That's one of the services your dues pay for - just as we all pay taxes that go to or support programs we don't want, the union dues provide the service of collective bargaining and protections on the job.

If management has their act together, they have performance metrics and policies negotiated and accepted by the union. Over the thirty years my father was a teacher, there were several union teachers fired or otherwise "encouraged" to retire early because the school had the paperwork trail to prove those teachers were not capable of teaching. It wasn't sudden - because the requirement for cause was to protect the good teacher that may be facing pressure from a connected parent with a grudge - but it could be done.

Union protections are not to protect the bad workers, union protections are to protect all workers from fickle or weak management who would otherwise fire a couple good workers because "the major task of the moment was almost complete on Wednesday and the corporate bean counters were going to look at the books on Friday and they had to show a reduction in costs" - before the next cycle of work would begin the next week.

I've seen it happen in more than one non-union shop on the waterfront. Of course, the workers that were just let go were not re-hired for the new contract, they'd just go back a few contracts and see if the good workers they fired a couple months previous for the same reason were willing to come back - at lower wages, of course.

It was a nasty cycle of declining wages that has not abated - and since the union jobs were protected and all the available jobs filled, workers who weren't union have little recourse working in non-union shops.

I saw the non-union wages and benefits for an entire major industry fall by over 25% over the past 15 years; experienced electricians and welders starting with companies at around $20 an hour with regular vesting raises and a nice, full benefit package with full medical/dental and 401K matching in 1991 find themselves starting (at the same level of experience, certification requirements, and position) at a pretty much frozen $16/$17 an hour and had to wait a year to get any sort of benefits that company wanted to give. And forget about vesting, those workers weren't going to be able to stay with a company for more than three years depending on the contract requirements; a worker can only hope to parlay their resume into a better job at the next company they might be able to get work at before they got let go.

And this sort of short-sighted treatment of the workforce does not make for much of a quality product - the work at the end of a contract pretty much always has to be double-checked as workers begin looking for the next place they might be able to work at after the traditional thank-you-and-here's-a-pink-slip-for-half-of-you company party.

I had already made project manager when the companies in this industry started taking that attitude towards the general workforce, so it would be a rare thing for me to get let go - but I noticed (and complained) that the work force that remained and the replacement workers began to do less and less quality work as those "pink slip parties" became more of a regular occurrence after each job, and people started seeing wages slide backwards.

Haele

Does he watch FOX? liberal N proud Dec 2012 #1
Ingratitude is a modern American value BeyondGeography Dec 2012 #2
Have you read this? Might explain some of it Locrian Dec 2012 #3
There are lots of poorly educated folks in these blue Laurian Dec 2012 #4
I know teachers who hate unions. proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #67
Unfortunately unions may be turning into just mutual organizations Recursion Dec 2012 #73
Teacher wanting Bibles in school maybe? barbiegeek Dec 2012 #104
Sigh. This is why we're losing on labor issues Recursion Dec 2012 #111
Yes it does standingtall Dec 2012 #132
Same thing with my rightwingnut brother. Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #5
It sounds like you got answers when you asked them The2ndWheel Dec 2012 #6
I've been in one for about four years now customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #7
How is the union preventing recognition for good work? Laurian Dec 2012 #10
Glad to see your husband has it good that way customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #153
I get it. Hard workers get paid the same as lazy ones. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #18
I get it. hay rick Dec 2012 #37
Sometimes they do. Other people view it as a workplace thing. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #63
Hate to break it to you Capt. Obvious Dec 2012 #45
No, it never was a union thing exclusively. It's a workplace TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #60
Sit around playing cards while other people work -- IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #72
Sounds like someone needs to set standards and make people accountable, that's not union...poor lead uponit7771 Dec 2012 #84
+1 nt rDigital Dec 2012 #89
and new hires often come in at pay they did not "earn" SoCalDem Dec 2012 #139
*boggle* "no intrigue"? Recursion Dec 2012 #148
I am enjoying my union pension..and I liked making $16+ an hour (retired in '96) SoCalDem Dec 2012 #149
That's also true of non-union workers who have "connections". And there are plenty of them. SharonAnn Dec 2012 #121
Truth. But when union dues are paid, you expect better IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #126
Not really sure what the union has to do with that Bradical79 Dec 2012 #158
A study I read about 10-12 years back addresses your issues happyslug Dec 2012 #28
The 90-day probationary period is important. hay rick Dec 2012 #41
And the 90 Day probationary period is a historical accident. happyslug Dec 2012 #87
Fascinating!!! IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #93
Very interesting. nt hay rick Dec 2012 #97
That's very interesting. SheilaT Dec 2012 #103
Thanks for the informative post. Incitatus Dec 2012 #105
And that's the problem with talking about "unions" in general. Different types of work... Recursion Dec 2012 #66
If the union is holding you down... hay rick Dec 2012 #34
Yep, go enjoy employment at will. nt rDigital Dec 2012 #91
When we get an economy back customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #154
Sounds like the company you work for has a problem, not the Union necessarily. bluestate10 Dec 2012 #39
Oh, it does indeed customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #155
Then your beef is with management. Union membership has little to do with how they perceive you. Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #50
if you have "lazy" coworkers, you have a management problem, not a union problem. n/t Scout Dec 2012 #62
What should management do? (nt) Recursion Dec 2012 #74
gosh, i guess they have no performance standards, no means of discipline. Scout Dec 2012 #81
Well, actually Recursion Dec 2012 #83
Evaluate, document and provide the proper paperwork! haele Dec 2012 #138
excellent post, thank you n/t Scout Dec 2012 #142
I just had a argument about this on another forum where most folks there are RW, not all but most Ya Basta Dec 2012 #8
Happens all the time union_maid Dec 2012 #9
Talk about biting the hand that feed you. Do you talk to her often? Does she think she or her bluestate10 Dec 2012 #42
Well, I figured it out. One time we got an extra year's vacation and another we got long-term SharonAnn Dec 2012 #120
Media brainwashing. undeterred Dec 2012 #11
I've had this conversation with people gollygee Dec 2012 #12
Another consideration regarding unions.... Laurian Dec 2012 #13
Maybe his union sucked? RevStPatrick Dec 2012 #14
You don't get it because you have not been a union worker. MrYikes Dec 2012 #15
Sound more like personal problems. ForgoTheConsequence Dec 2012 #110
If your union sucks standingtall Dec 2012 #140
Reading comprehension is not taught well at many schools. MrYikes Dec 2012 #151
It's truly mind boggling. RegieRocker Dec 2012 #16
I can explain: THE CORRUPTION. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #17
Kinda like political appointees...no Historic NY Dec 2012 #19
Yes, it is the same thing. My FIL holds politicians in contempt as well. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #25
Yes, there is corruption 1gobluedem Dec 2012 #24
You can say that, but the stories I am sharing are PERSONAL. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #26
my dad experienced the same thing at the phone company jollyreaper2112 Dec 2012 #35
I think the wedge issue could have been handled IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #98
If members pay dues they have a right to be represented. standingtall Dec 2012 #143
I was bargained for by a union for years 1gobluedem Dec 2012 #47
I have been "at will" for my entire career. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #54
Well, stories can also be exaggerated 1gobluedem Dec 2012 #68
The automatic assumption that my family lies IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #78
Sigh. I didn't call anyone a liar 1gobluedem Dec 2012 #117
I appreciate your clarification. Now, pretend they were telling *their* truth. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #118
Would you like me to share some local stories? nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #95
Several years ago I was fired after two days SheilaT Dec 2012 #108
I had a manager honestly tell me -- IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #119
Yep, been there. LiberalArkie Dec 2012 #27
The stupid part is that "everyone knows" and nothing changes. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #30
I understand your reaction, however: olegramps Dec 2012 #31
"...allowing cronyism and outright gangsters to become entrench[ed]..." IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #33
Ok, none John2 Dec 2012 #44
I am sharing the stories my family tells about Unions. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #52
From a different perspective. bluestate10 Dec 2012 #49
My husband is management, and I agree with you. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #56
unions do have accountability standingtall Dec 2012 #144
Eh, where I live you aren't going to get in a union in the first place unless you know someone Fumesucker Dec 2012 #70
^^^ This (nt) Recursion Dec 2012 #75
Yup. The results of extreme rarity. Bradical79 Dec 2012 #159
When I was in elementary school, teachers hit kids. proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #77
The stories span 40 years. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #79
Why aren't you blaming management instead of the unions??? Really! No...really really? ret5hd Dec 2012 #112
Because the union people have to pay $$$ to get treated like crap IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #122
But you're getting MORE of a paycheck 'cause of the union. ret5hd Dec 2012 #129
My firsthand experience is very different from your secondhand account. hay rick Dec 2012 #133
It's a lot like the anti-vaccine crowd in a way. Geoff R. Casavant Dec 2012 #20
You got that exactly right! marybourg Dec 2012 #86
In florida (right to work) state Rocky888 Dec 2012 #21
my wifes union president is a teabagger.... madrchsod Dec 2012 #22
I have a cousin like that. progressoid Dec 2012 #40
Hate Radio & Fox News Doctor_J Dec 2012 #23
YES! progressoid Dec 2012 #38
A big clue is in your post: "He has a high-school education..." Yavin4 Dec 2012 #29
I have been on both sides..... Uben Dec 2012 #32
^== This. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #36
just one of my examples MrYikes Dec 2012 #57
OK, but this means we need to FIX THE BAD LOCALS... Recursion Dec 2012 #76
There you are. MrYikes Dec 2012 #100
They don't get that without that union they hate so much they'd have died at their post. Arkana Dec 2012 #43
RW media Capt. Obvious Dec 2012 #46
Fox News. Any other explanation is incomplete. Taverner Dec 2012 #48
My dues are about Dyedinthewoolliberal Dec 2012 #51
Idiots libodem Dec 2012 #53
Basically, A Lot Of People RobinA Dec 2012 #55
Right to Work Issue DRS Dec 2012 #58
google "right to work" and find out what it really means putitinD Dec 2012 #134
all 3 of my brothers in law are like that Scout Dec 2012 #59
Maybe his local was incompetent or corrupt? Recursion Dec 2012 #61
As workers and unions decrease in power and influence, employers and management increase theirs... YoungDemCA Dec 2012 #64
Yes. The fact that the left doesn't get what turns workers off is a big part of the problem. Recursion Dec 2012 #65
"Being told to sit down and wait your turn when you're objectively better at the job Piazza Riforma Dec 2012 #101
I dunno, maybe working conditions, benefits and job security to start putitinD Dec 2012 #131
Piss on all that!!! I should be able to push that old lady that's been casheiring for 10 yrs... ret5hd Dec 2012 #136
There were 4 openings for cashiers listed at the time I applied so nice try with the snark. Piazza Riforma Dec 2012 #150
Your reply doesn't even make sense... ret5hd Dec 2012 #152
That is the power of propaganda nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #69
probably true, minimum wage and no benefits for everyone putitinD Dec 2012 #135
Why is it that in the largest democracy in the world, RoccoR5955 Dec 2012 #71
Germany requires labor be part of corporate boards Recursion Dec 2012 #85
Hopefully he hasn't lived his entire life Yet. But let's say he worked at Ford for jtuck004 Dec 2012 #80
You are talking about "Pretty Willie" MrYikes Dec 2012 #92
Maybe he had a chance to do that _because_ of the union. jtuck004 Dec 2012 #99
Ya know, I was ready ta get all negative MrYikes Dec 2012 #102
I never mean to take away from people's individual, admirable achievement jtuck004 Dec 2012 #113
lol ,,, thanks. nt MrYikes Dec 2012 #116
There's always the few scunbags who want the benefits, but not the fight! dmosh42 Dec 2012 #82
It makes as much sense as state employees who avebury Dec 2012 #88
He thinks he has more rights than the union has fought to get him. ...Fool... The Wielding Truth Dec 2012 #90
I'm just so sad to make $30/hr and have Union representation. It just rages me to no end. rDigital Dec 2012 #94
Consider confirmation bias jollyreaper2112 Dec 2012 #96
I really really really wish you'd edit your post one more time MrYikes Dec 2012 #107
why do you believe racism doesn't exist??? ret5hd Dec 2012 #137
Wow, I don't know how I can live without your approval jollyreaper2112 Dec 2012 #160
I don't get it either ismnotwasm Dec 2012 #106
Without knowing the particulars Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #109
If you dig deep, quite often it's about race. Kingofalldems Dec 2012 #114
Many white working class would rather starve along with minorities Dawson Leery Dec 2012 #123
The Unions are the key to President Obama's progressive transformation of our country BanTheGOP Dec 2012 #115
What really gets you is that they are typically the most lazy aandegoons Dec 2012 #124
I don't know about other states, but in Texas we are a right to work state and we have lots of JohLast Dec 2012 #125
Wow Texas had right to work laws 40 years ago? aandegoons Dec 2012 #130
Texas passed RTW in 1947, right after Taft-Hartley Recursion Dec 2012 #146
The big problem is standingtall Dec 2012 #147
All he cares about it money Rex Dec 2012 #127
I've heard the same from union workers....... Smilo Dec 2012 #128
They aren't thinking (in answer to your question). One cruel legacy of McCarthyism and coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #141
They are called malcontents Major Nikon Dec 2012 #145
Weak-minded intellectually lazy people LWolf Dec 2012 #156
500$ per year to make 10k per year in additional income. Sirveri Dec 2012 #157
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