General Discussion

jeff47

(26,549 posts)

65. There's 2 kinds of referenda in MI

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:43 AM

Dec 2012

One repeals a law, and the second passes a new law.

The first is much easier to get on the ballot - it requires many less signatures.

Neither one can be directly used against appropriation bills, but the second lets the people add new law to the books. The fact that the old law was an appropriations bill doesn't matter, because the referendum isn't removing the old law.

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Is the Michigan thing the death knell of the American labor movement? [View all] Stinky The Clown Dec 2012 OP

i thought that it was Ronbo's firing of the PATCO people. Mel Content Dec 2012 #1

PATCO endorsed Raygun Major Nikon Dec 2012 #49

I think it will be just the opposite. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2012 #2

Yeah it sure motivated voters during the Walker recall, didn't? davidn3600 Dec 2012 #39

yeah, people keep saying so, but... the most significant 'union membership' is now in the public HiPointDem Dec 2012 #55

I'm sure it's hitting the courts as we speak... Cooley Hurd Dec 2012 #3

Private sector union membership is in the single digit percentages -- it's over. FarCenter Dec 2012 #4

Right Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2012 #9

Unions are not a high Democratic priority - only mentioned in 4 paragraphs of 32 page 2012 Platform FarCenter Dec 2012 #19

Are you really a Democrat? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2012 #25

That doesn't change the fact that the party platform does not appear to value them. randome Dec 2012 #27

In addition Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2012 #26

Employer pensions are inherently risky because employers have shorter lifespans than workers. FarCenter Dec 2012 #31

Lovely RW talking points there nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #32

Can a company live forever? FarCenter Dec 2012 #35

Can these pensions be transferred to caretakers nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #36

They can be transfered to the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation FarCenter Dec 2012 #42

You are till not getting it nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #48

No, there is one other strategy: JaneyVee Dec 2012 #5

dunno about that, but the right-to-work thing has a "no referendum allowed" clause built into it. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #57

Wow! That's crazy. Inkfreak Dec 2012 #76

Yes... because people forget. GreenEyedLefty Dec 2012 #6

Well stated! ... Welcome to Michissippi. Bozita Dec 2012 #51

+1000 Tsiyu Dec 2012 #71

No. Turbineguy Dec 2012 #7

It will spearhead the revival malaise Dec 2012 #8

This is the 25th state to do RTW. former9thward Dec 2012 #24

this time for sure!!! just vote for more democrats!! HiPointDem Dec 2012 #58

I think, with the repukes help, donco Dec 2012 #10

that's what gives me hope... demographics, there are more of us in the pipeline than them.... oldhippydude Dec 2012 #30

The Pendulum Just Keeps On Going Further to the Right AndyTiedye Dec 2012 #37

My hope gollygee Dec 2012 #11

Nope........I think its gonna piss a lot of people off. busterbrown Dec 2012 #12

no, because eventually all the Republicans will lose. They have nothing to offer ... kwassa Dec 2012 #13

No. Cal Carpenter Dec 2012 #14

Thank you for the eye on the ground report Cal. Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #23

Buck up. This is nowhere near the end jeff47 Dec 2012 #15

The Michigan Republicans are even more dastardly than you know. Lefty48197 Dec 2012 #47

You're not quite getting what I'm saying jeff47 Dec 2012 #61

I read there is a "no referendum" clause built into the legislation (or maybe in a separate piece, HiPointDem Dec 2012 #59

Read what I'm saying a tad more closely. jeff47 Dec 2012 #63

well, that might work. but you said 'referendum'. so i guess my thinking is that would apply to HiPointDem Dec 2012 #64

There's 2 kinds of referenda in MI jeff47 Dec 2012 #65

is this in the works? it's cheering. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #66

Dunno. I figure it'll take a little bit for the unions to figure out their strategy. (nt) jeff47 Dec 2012 #67

so this is your personal thought about the strategy to take? or it's under discussion? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #68

I've read a few different pundits proposing it as a solution. jeff47 Dec 2012 #69

thanks. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #70

no, but it might be the beginning of the end of "right to work" bullshit 0rganism Dec 2012 #16

I'm not sure why the Michigan law is a death-knell. randome Dec 2012 #17

Republicans own the Governorship, Senate, House, and Supreme Court in Michigan Lefty48197 Dec 2012 #46

Could be. But I hope it is the opposite. Overseas Dec 2012 #18

This should be the end of the political career of everyone who voted for and sponsored it. Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #20

no larwdem Dec 2012 #21

Yeah, it's all over but the cryng Doctor_J Dec 2012 #22

When Reagan fired the air traffic controllers was the death knell abelenkpe Dec 2012 #28

No...it will take time nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #29

The Labor movement has been in retreat for decades. Agnosticsherbet Dec 2012 #33

That is because of assumptions made by labor nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #34

Radicalization of labor may be a good thing. But it's less so if severe damage is already inflicted. Selatius Dec 2012 #73

Sorry, talking Bakunin here, not Ryan nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #74

Actually, it is due to the very successful demonization of labor. Agnosticsherbet Dec 2012 #75

we re-organizing.... madrchsod Dec 2012 #45

And get it done! lonestarnot Dec 2012 #56

No. Republicans are pissing into the wind. Every thing they are doing will be reversed. bluestate10 Dec 2012 #38

Time to go wildcat, methinks. backscatter712 Dec 2012 #40

They are coming nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #41

no......we ain`t going away anytime soon madrchsod Dec 2012 #43

NO! Lefty48197 Dec 2012 #44

unions should buy their own okieinpain Dec 2012 #50

Those that would believe this are those that have never had the honor of working as a union member lonestarnot Dec 2012 #52

Please explain what you are saying here: JDPriestly Dec 2012 #53

I think it's a watershed in the same way PATCO was, yeah. It's not just about the right-to-work HiPointDem Dec 2012 #54

No more than President Obama's election and re-election was the death knell of the republicans. cherokeeprogressive Dec 2012 #60

Most Americans view unions as being equally as bad as corporations davidn3600 Dec 2012 #62

I think we are going back 100 years and the bitter arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #72