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eridani

(51,907 posts)
239. During the era of New Deal dominance, we used to call those things public goods
Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:31 PM
Dec 2012

And everyone, even Republicans like Eisenhower, assumed that progressive taxation was necessary to fund them.

I agree Dyedinthewoolliberal Dec 2012 #1
Remember the one economic truth that GW Bush refused to learn: burnsei sensei Dec 2012 #129
But that kind of idealized capitalism you describe doesn't exist, and perhaps never has... marmar Dec 2012 #2
And were the poor better off in India in the 1950s? BrentWil Dec 2012 #3
Central planning did not work in the 1950s quaker bill Dec 2012 #7
Central planning didn't work because there were political motivations instead of the profit BrentWil Dec 2012 #10
Postulate as you may quaker bill Dec 2012 #22
It's Not About Human Nature. It's About Math. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #84
You are missing the point quaker bill Dec 2012 #231
Well, why isn't it? BrentWil Dec 2012 #88
False comparision of Wal Mart to gov't central planning. Mr. Blue Sky Dec 2012 #226
It was an illustration, not an analogy quaker bill Dec 2012 #230
In some cases, yes Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #43
No one would argue in some cases... BrentWil Dec 2012 #56
You know, a few economists and historians nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #54
If mankind could ever get to ideal socialism or ideal capitalism...either would work ...but kelliekat44 Dec 2012 #73
Both are Utopias nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #103
More's 1515 Utopia is an explicit critique of capitalism allrevvedup Dec 2012 #208
Yeah, but I am talking of Smith nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #210
They might be utopian but they are not Utopias. allrevvedup Dec 2012 #212
An utopian philosophy is a type of thinking. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #217
More's Utopia was the first Utopia. allrevvedup Dec 2012 #234
You are fixed on tittle nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #237
It's Not Capitalism Anymore When the Robber Barons Buy the Government AndyTiedye Dec 2012 #4
How have Buffett, Gates, or Soros "bought the government"? banned from Kos Dec 2012 #5
Ummm... Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #6
Today's capitalism - with emphasis on short-term profits by almost any means - is a problem. Hoyt Dec 2012 #8
sounds like the flea market down the street banned from Kos Dec 2012 #9
Capitalism isn't the enemy. Deregulated capitalism is. Initech Dec 2012 #11
The rush to laissez faire capitalism is what's going to kill this country if Cleita Dec 2012 #12
You are arguing from the context of agrarian civilization NoOneMan Dec 2012 #13
I would certainly advocate the cessation of cess-life.. BrentWil Dec 2012 #14
Dealing with problems as they come just increases social complexity NoOneMan Dec 2012 #15
Then what is the "solution" NT BrentWil Dec 2012 #16
By now, there may be none NoOneMan Dec 2012 #20
"The best we can hope for is complete economic collapse" KansDem Dec 2012 #70
Why Wouldn't A Complete Economic Collapse Result In A "Lord Of The Flies" Situation? DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #85
Its possible, but hey, whats the alternative? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #119
To Muddle Through With What We Have Now And To Improve It To Make It As Kind And Fair As Possible/nt DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #123
Good luck muddling through 400ppm of CO2 NoOneMan Dec 2012 #126
I Don't Think That Will Happen In Our Lifetimes Or Children's Children's Children's Lifetimes DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #128
You really do not seem to understand the magnitude NoOneMan Dec 2012 #130
Hobbes is no better than Rand tama Dec 2012 #194
Like Riots/No Thanks DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #209
What else is "sovereign" tama Dec 2012 #213
Hopefully, The Sovereign Is Given The Right To Use Force Fairly And Judiciously DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #218
It is fine to be animal tama Dec 2012 #220
Is Survival Not The First Goal Of Any Living Being? DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #221
Did Maslow ask all living beings? tama Dec 2012 #222
That Just Proves The Rule DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #224
What the parasite class living of capital interests and work of others fear most: tama Dec 2012 #37
But they can't help themselves... 2naSalit Dec 2012 #60
I can see tama Dec 2012 #193
Capitalism is not the same thing as Industrialization. Odin2005 Dec 2012 #17
This is the rebuttal to OP. +1000 PowerToThePeople Dec 2012 #68
Chicken dinner! Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #83
Capitalism is also not the same thing as democracy or social progress. JackRiddler Dec 2012 #202
It's all relative. Maybe for a whole bunch of European imperialists it has. Maybe even not them. Zorra Dec 2012 #18
^^^This ^^^ limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #151
European Imperialists tama Dec 2012 #174
I Sincerely Disagree Taverner Dec 2012 #19
It takes people to objectify. randome Dec 2012 #21
costco isn't an example of benign capitalism capitalism that pays above prevailing wage HiPointDem Dec 2012 #25
Costco does more than pay better. randome Dec 2012 #27
it very well may. that doesn't make it benign capitalism. all capitalism participates in the HiPointDem Dec 2012 #30
How would you put tens of millions of people to work, then? randome Dec 2012 #32
We don't want tama Dec 2012 #41
If Everybody Is Free From Work How Do We Get Goodies Like Food, Shelter, And Medical Care? DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #86
There's no plan tama Dec 2012 #171
To quote Travolta in Pulp Fiction: "A bum. You've decided to be a bum." randome Dec 2012 #214
What else is there? tama Dec 2012 #216
Productivity in the US has increased by a factor of 4 since WW II eridani Dec 2012 #232
How About Finding Something For Everbody To Do That Gives Him Or Her A Sense Of Self Worth/nt DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #235
Alternatively, we could just deal with the fact that it takes fewer and fewer people to make eridani Dec 2012 #238
Capitalism doesn't create work. ArcticFox Dec 2012 #62
Is it possible to regulate any economic system of a complex society, such that... NoOneMan Dec 2012 #26
I'm not cheerleading anything. randome Dec 2012 #31
We may not even have a society in 100 years, thanks in some part to capitalism NoOneMan Dec 2012 #34
You got that right. randome Dec 2012 #38
Amen. We are just now seeing the 'awesome' results of capitalism. Wait 50 yrs & get back to us.nt Nay Dec 2012 #122
There can be benign capitalism. There can also be a benign tumor. Taverner Dec 2012 #168
it has. it's also ruined the lives of millions. so on balance it's a wash at best. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #23
Of course Capitalism has made the world better. Even Marxists won't argue that point. white_wolf Dec 2012 #24
Its really hard to tell if something has ran its course... BrentWil Dec 2012 #33
"has RUN its course"-- Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #44
How hard? tama Dec 2012 #46
Your summary reminds me of corporations I've worked in ... start up companies require one RKP5637 Dec 2012 #36
Must be well-regulated; if not, vipers take over. elleng Dec 2012 #28
The root cause of problems with capitalism from my perspective is the RKP5637 Dec 2012 #29
I think you discovered the inevitable. immoderate Dec 2012 #40
Yep, it's a system that often handsomely rewards bullying and RKP5637 Dec 2012 #50
Capitalism, like beer and socialism, is great in moderation. nt Speck Tater Dec 2012 #35
BOTH! NashvilleLefty Dec 2012 #39
Concept of Capitalism tama Dec 2012 #48
Tell that to slave workers in Burma or Bangladesh AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #42
Well.. BrentWil Dec 2012 #47
Meanwhile, the real standard of living for much of theAmerican & European middle-class has declined. leveymg Dec 2012 #45
Well, yes. Sweden and Norway are better than North Korea and Cuba (nt) Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #49
We tried the Keynesian answer once, from about 1935-1975, but we're back in the same pickle again. limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #51
I can't disagree with your conclusion. Cleita Dec 2012 #53
Just say exactly what we want. limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #148
I have thought about a utopian type technological society, actually for a fictional Cleita Dec 2012 #153
hmmm... limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #158
Thanks. If I ever get it written, I will send you some pages Cleita Dec 2012 #164
ok cool limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #170
General strike tama Dec 2012 #175
I wish it were possible. In large cities, it could be useful, Cleita Dec 2012 #182
Oh it's possible tama Dec 2012 #185
I was thinking 2naSalit Dec 2012 #64
How much nationalization does it take before you lose capitalism? white_wolf Dec 2012 #116
Not sure 2naSalit Dec 2012 #117
Well, I for one don't want the government designing my clothes Cleita Dec 2012 #180
I would like to nationalize all our natural resources as belonging to the people. Cleita Dec 2012 #155
That's the way it was supposed to work 2naSalit Dec 2012 #166
"Let it be known, there is a fountain eridani Dec 2012 #233
We still would have to socialized medicine, education and other things made by man Cleita Dec 2012 #236
During the era of New Deal dominance, we used to call those things public goods eridani Dec 2012 #239
Trying to think of someone outside Anglo-America ... Deep13 Dec 2012 #52
Japan seems to be doing okay. white_wolf Dec 2012 #55
China since 1979 isn't doing too bad...NT BrentWil Dec 2012 #57
You mean the same China where factories put up nets to stop people from committing suicide? white_wolf Dec 2012 #58
Or a China where 5% of the population died during the Great Leap Forward... BrentWil Dec 2012 #59
I doubt China is any better off than it was under Mao. white_wolf Dec 2012 #61
You have a very distorted view of China BrentWil Dec 2012 #89
And you have a very rose-colored view of it. HughBeaumont Dec 2012 #227
I have seen it... BrentWil Dec 2012 #229
Nor Is Taiwan Or South Korea DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #87
A China where the PTB goes into a village, mows it down, puts up cheap apt houses, and forces the Nay Dec 2012 #121
Try comparing South Korea with North Korea (nt ) Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #66
"Life on planet earth has improved" NickB79 Dec 2012 #63
INdeed 2naSalit Dec 2012 #65
Indeed. It is all about where you are "viewing" it from. 99Forever Dec 2012 #80
"Capitalism has defeated Communism in Russia, and Democracy in the US." -Unknown Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #67
Capitalism is the mechanism that fueled and made possible the rapid iemitsu Dec 2012 #69
It is one of the better ideas from 1780 quaker bill Dec 2012 #71
One addition to your "problems with collectivist approaches....." socialist_n_TN Dec 2012 #108
I would agree with active opposition as a problem quaker bill Dec 2012 #172
Product of individual greed supported by state violence and terror tama Dec 2012 #176
Again, it was an idea from the 1780s. quaker bill Dec 2012 #198
History tama Dec 2012 #199
Yes there were alot of bad ideas in the 1780s. quaker bill Dec 2012 #225
We need a new "ism." n/t OneGrassRoot Dec 2012 #72
Capitalism.. sendero Dec 2012 #74
Does capitalism always end in crony capitalism? limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #150
I think the US version of capitalism.. sendero Dec 2012 #162
How is it supposed to be done? tama Dec 2012 #177
Most of the content of your post is largely about the Green Revolution... Humanist_Activist Dec 2012 #75
Your comment and ProSense Dec 2012 #76
I just find his argument silly, if those non-profits did the capitalistic thing, those varieties... Humanist_Activist Dec 2012 #78
Green Revolution tama Dec 2012 #178
Short term benefit may lead to long term problems, that is true... Humanist_Activist Dec 2012 #204
Wiki tama Dec 2012 #206
Yes, Capitalism is much better than Feudalism. And much worse than Socialism. DireStrike Dec 2012 #77
Oh, I don't know. Either one can be pretty bad Recursion Dec 2012 #79
Have you noticed that none of these "socialist" revolutions were in heavily industrialized nations? DireStrike Dec 2012 #90
The basic thought that capital in a capitalist society has to concentrate in the hands of the few is BrentWil Dec 2012 #93
This is a shallow understanding of the underlying economics and politics. DireStrike Dec 2012 #98
What would Cuba look like theKed Dec 2012 #139
Depends how you define socialism democrattotheend Dec 2012 #143
Certainly. DireStrike Dec 2012 #144
Depends how you define better tama Dec 2012 #181
This site is Democratic Underground democrattotheend Dec 2012 #201
Nah tama Dec 2012 #203
Your OP suffers from a general failure to define terms. Let's define 'capitalism' first and coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #81
Slavery is not the problem. Slavery has improved the lives of millions. Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #82
Yeah. Strawman Argument But The OP Didn't Make It DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #91
That's not the point. DireStrike Dec 2012 #94
I don't have time to model this and run a regression model... BrentWil Dec 2012 #95
And the supporting arguments. DireStrike Dec 2012 #100
Native Americans very much disagree nt tama Dec 2012 #184
Well, good luck to science in the endeavor of unmasking which material benefits Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #105
Actually it hasn't, even those not enslaved.... BrentWil Dec 2012 #92
So your argument ProSense Dec 2012 #96
There Were Both Moral And Economic Arguments Against Slavery. They Weren't Mutually Exclusive. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #99
I made no ProSense Dec 2012 #104
The Economic Argument While Somewhat True Always Bothers Me. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #106
But Lincoln Saw Slavery Dying Out As A Result Of Its Own Contradictions DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #97
While I agree with your macroeconomic points... Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #102
Capitalism is just greed by another name. lalalu Dec 2012 #101
Yes and no. Capitalism should be a tool, not a religion. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #107
I'll disagree partially........ socialist_n_TN Dec 2012 #110
The fault for that issue lies with government regulatory choices. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #113
That's the "political" part of the system at work......... socialist_n_TN Dec 2012 #141
What great innovation has capitalism made in recent decades? white_wolf Dec 2012 #114
And a 2naSalit Dec 2012 #118
And they aren't even good video games. white_wolf Dec 2012 #120
I wouldn't know 2naSalit Dec 2012 #124
Oh it's pretty blatant propaganda, especially the campaign modes. white_wolf Dec 2012 #125
It certainly does 2naSalit Dec 2012 #127
Assassins Creed III tama Dec 2012 #186
See, Assassin's Creed doesn't bother me that much simply because it is clearly fictional. white_wolf Dec 2012 #211
Though fictional tama Dec 2012 #215
DU? lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #131
DU falls under the internet category. white_wolf Dec 2012 #133
Earlg and Elad will be surprised that their work product is simply a gov. project. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #137
DU is a very well put together website, but isn't something that hasn't been done before. white_wolf Dec 2012 #138
Sure it is. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #142
Market share? nt tama Dec 2012 #188
Yes, it is a business. nt lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #190
Not really tama Dec 2012 #192
Though this is privately own tama Dec 2012 #187
The admins have families to feed. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #205
OK tama Dec 2012 #207
Ok - how about these... Mr. Blue Sky Dec 2012 #228
Look up green revolution Progressive dog Dec 2012 #109
Do look it up tama Dec 2012 #189
The Gardens of Democracy by Liu and Hanauer gulliver Dec 2012 #111
Is this about ProSense Dec 2012 #112
It's about democratic, government-tended capitalism gulliver Dec 2012 #115
Capitalism quickly reaches the limits of growth. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #132
The problem that we face is that we do not understand the problem NoOneMan Dec 2012 #135
Really there are plenty of bright people and many understand the problems. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #136
But these people you speak of are not normally in politics NoOneMan Dec 2012 #140
We aren't disagreeing on that. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #145
Hmm tama Dec 2012 #191
Trotsky was an authoritarian mass murderer. Nt. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #195
Yup tama Dec 2012 #196
Washington springs to mind. white_wolf Dec 2012 #219
Ah, that Conotocaurius tama Dec 2012 #223
The same could be said of any religion. rucky Dec 2012 #134
A good read about American capitalism around the world PowerToThePeople Dec 2012 #146
Capitalism has a propensity billh58 Dec 2012 #147
Only if you can overlook the millions of lives it has destroyed. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2012 #149
At the expense of billions nt Xipe Totec Dec 2012 #152
Capitalism is simply a system of currency control and circulation, Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #154
HUHH? Seen the lastest Child Poverty Rate in the U.S.?? Iggy Dec 2012 #156
There's a world of difference between "trade" and "markets," and "Capitalism" Scootaloo Dec 2012 #157
REGULATED capitalism is just fine. Zoeisright Dec 2012 #159
Actually it isn't. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #197
And capitalism has easily ruined just as many lives as it has improved. kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #160
That's like saying 'water is healthy'. Marr Dec 2012 #161
"The comfort of the rich depends upon an abundant supply of the poor." Voltaire Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2012 #163
Global Warming canceled your parade. GeorgeGist Dec 2012 #165
In general I agree, but with two stipulations. First full participation is essential 1-Old-Man Dec 2012 #167
I don't agree. Chan790 Dec 2012 #169
Big business is a problem. moondust Dec 2012 #173
Unchecked it evolves into monopolies. Whovian Dec 2012 #179
And stolen the lives of billions. eom TransitJohn Dec 2012 #183
Capitalism brought misery, cultural displacement and exile for numerous peoples. MichaelMcGuire Dec 2012 #200
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