I agree, this pulling "4% who are sociopaths" is dismissive and (Reply #78)

In the discussion thread: The truth about what young men knew about rape years ago. [View all]

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 05:18 PM

bettyellen (47,209 posts)

78. I agree, this pulling "4% who are sociopaths" is dismissive and

Unhelpful.
It's tilting at a straw man that women are saying its a good healthy chunk of some social subsets in our culture. Anyone who partied much in college or hung out in bars while young knows its not 4%. We know these guys don't try to pull this crap around the "stand up" guys who'd step in.
I know how very common this crap was at frat parties. You always needed a reliable friend to get you out of those in one piece.

4% is a wild guess from someone with rose colored glasses and a different set of friends. And it adds nothing to the discussion here, except to negate what plenty of women here have said they experienced.
MMs experience and upbringing is far from average. Even he acknowledges his parents were exceptional while basically implying women here of exaggerating. Ridiculous premise for an OP.

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106 replies	Author	Time	Post
The truth about what young men knew about rape years ago. [View all]	MineralMan	Nov 2012	OP
The many dismissive posts about rape even here on DU indicate that not all men got the message.	yardwork	Nov 2012	#1
That's true. Like most people, I encountered boys and men who	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#3
Why do you assume you know what this wide circle was up to...	bettyellen	Nov 2012	#79
The inference that young women should know the moral	sufrommich	Nov 2012	#12
that	heaven05	Nov 2012	#45
I didn't get a "talk" from anybody...	snooper2	Nov 2012	#2
Yes. You were brought up to respect others.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#5
This	cherokeeprogressive	Nov 2012	#35
Same message I got fifteen years later,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#4
Ah, the contraception talk came later.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#8
Yes, that was pretty much the same message I got	Still Sensible	Nov 2012	#6
that one hits the nail on the head	liberal_at_heart	Nov 2012	#15
This message was self-deleted by its author	freshwest	Nov 2012	#63
Actually, I think that was pretty radical advice, and very well stated.	enough	Nov 2012	#7
Could be. My father was, and is, a great person.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#11
I'm the same age as you.	maddiemom	Nov 2012	#67
I got the talk to be careful at parties	gollygee	Nov 2012	#9
Yes. That's the other side of the equation.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#16
This is the kind of story I hear:	gollygee	Nov 2012	#19
People who participate in such things are sociopaths,	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#21
Only 4% of the population meets the definition of sociopaths	gollygee	Nov 2012	#22
Stories like that one are true, and have been around since always.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#24
It's a minority	gollygee	Nov 2012	#25
I have no way to measure the size of that minority, though.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#32
There have been lots of studies	gollygee	Nov 2012	#37
One thing about group psychology, sociopathy, and rape that needs to be considered.	Springslips	Nov 2012	#55
You're right that sociopaths are sometimes leaders, and	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#57
That is a good point.	Chemisse	Nov 2012	#84
But the OP is fooling himself, just because he'd	bettyellen	Nov 2012	#86
Many of us would prefer to think that despicable behavior is uncommon.	Chemisse	Nov 2012	#89
Easy way out. Way too common for men to think they shld give bros	bettyellen	Nov 2012	#90
This message was self-deleted by its author	freshwest	Nov 2012	#66
societal rules were stricter back then	liberal_at_heart	Nov 2012	#17
Back when?	gollygee	Nov 2012	#20
this is a good topic but I'm exhausted	liberal_at_heart	Nov 2012	#26
Cool. I always wondered what "The talk" was.	redgreenandblue	Nov 2012	#10
i am a mother. i had the talk. doesnt have to come from the father, though that is good stuff.	seabeyond	Nov 2012	#34
You were quite fortunate your dad spoke to you about it.	steve2470	Nov 2012	#13
I imagine there will always be some for whom there is no way	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#14
My daughter and I have already been educating my 11yo grandson. Thanks MM. nt	Mnemosyne	Nov 2012	#18
Excellent. Your grandson is lucky! nt	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#28
If he ever harms a woman, his mother will explode and he might not survive it! nt	Mnemosyne	Nov 2012	#58
You had a pretty cool dad.	Baitball Blogger	Nov 2012	#23
I still do. He's 88 years old, now, and so is my mother.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#27
both my boys have had that "talk" also. well before they got into a position of making their own way	seabeyond	Nov 2012	#29
Good job. I knew that from previous discussions.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#33
Curious...do you remember hearing of any rape trials	Lars39	Nov 2012	#30
Yes. The town I grew up in had just 6000 people or so.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#36
Having grown up in a very similar small town	Lars39	Nov 2012	#38
I'm sure you are right. The question I was answering had to	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#39
I did not get that talk from my father	RomneyLies	Nov 2012	#31
Your Father was a wise man	get the red out	Nov 2012	#40
He was, and is.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#41
I never got the talk. Never needed it.	Bonobo	Nov 2012	#42
I agree. Some people don't pay attention to what they	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#43
Sociopathy is not knowing that it's wrong in the first place	wickerwoman	Nov 2012	#59
I agree, this pulling "4% who are sociopaths" is dismissive and	bettyellen	Nov 2012	#78
Post removed	Post removed	Nov 2012	#44
Bull-fucking-shit.	Iggo	Nov 2012	#46
Post removed	Post removed	Nov 2012	#81
What an ugly, uncalled-for reply. Perhaps you should avail yourself of the ignore feature,	apocalypsehow	Nov 2012	#69
Post removed	Post removed	Nov 2012	#80
I win.	Iggo	Nov 2012	#87
No you didn't.	demmiblue	Nov 2012	#92
She pulled a bullshit stat out of her ass and I called her on it.	Iggo	Nov 2012	#94
Your edit is admirable.	demmiblue	Nov 2012	#100
My father told me	ismnotwasm	Nov 2012	#47
That old saying never was true.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#48
I never believed it	ismnotwasm	Nov 2012	#51
That is sad.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#52
as you said, most men and boys know. but I was thinking about that cretin rivard, whose father	niyad	Nov 2012	#49
Sociopathy generates more sociopathy.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#50
I think it's a little too pat to blame all rape on sociopaths	Chemisse	Nov 2012	#93
Another note: Sociopaths know that what they	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#53
I started first grade in 1960...	SouthernLiberal	Nov 2012	#54
Hmm. I have no experience with Catholic schools.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#56
My husband was told at a young age no means no.	kimbutgar	Nov 2012	#60
Trying to force oneself on another is wrong, too.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#62
Bless your father	wryter2000	Nov 2012	#61
You had a good father	treestar	Nov 2012	#64
I often envy my daughter's generation where young women can have sexual	maddiemom	Nov 2012	#65
Yes. We're of about the same age.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#68
It hasn't gone away.	LadyHawkAZ	Nov 2012	#96
Remember that group of popular high school boys some years ago who named themselves the	tblue37	Nov 2012	#70
I don't actually remember that, but it's not surprising.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#71
I couldnt agree more that	marions ghost	Nov 2012	#72
The Spur Posse	wickerwoman	Nov 2012	#73
Yes, "Spur Posse." I don't know why I couldn't come up	tblue37	Nov 2012	#74
Getting it out of movies and other mainstream media	LadyHawkAZ	Nov 2012	#75
Not Oprah	obamanut2012	Nov 2012	#98
In any situation in which there is an imbalance in power, the greater the imbalance, the greater the	patrice	Nov 2012	#76
Considering the statistics on rape... maybe not most but many boys did and do rape.	KittyWampus	Nov 2012	#77
I know maybe 4 women who weren't raped or sexually molested. Maybe 4.	Butterbean	Nov 2012	#82
What a great way to phrase it.	Chemisse	Nov 2012	#83
I never had "the talk"	unreadierLizard	Nov 2012	#85
There aren't ANY "all men rape" posts - just a bunch of men	bettyellen	Nov 2012	#95
I dunno	unreadierLizard	Nov 2012	#99
Women have explained in detail here that at times	bettyellen	Dec 2012	#102
I don't know about anyone else	unreadierLizard	Dec 2012	#106
Glad you had this experience.	MadrasT	Nov 2012	#88
Major kudos to your pop, MM!	AverageJoe90	Nov 2012	#91
K&R n/t	JoeyT	Nov 2012	#97
Not all young men	LadyHawkAZ	Nov 2012	#101
Thanks for that, MM.	Hekate	Dec 2012	#103
Growing up	Separation	Dec 2012	#104
Yes. Like most people, I went to a lot of parties in college.	MineralMan	Dec 2012	#105

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