HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Justice for JFK » Reply #239
In the discussion thread: Justice for JFK [View all]

Response to Octafish (Original post)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 12:05 AM

239. Highly recommended: "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters,"

by James Douglass, 2008, Orbis/Maryknoll Books.

This is the best book on JFK's assassination. Douglass not only establishes that the CIA conspired to and committed the murder and names names up to the level of Richard Helms (operations chief) above which the trail of responsibility and command disappears, he also untangles all of the CIA misdirections--for instance, their misdirection to Soviet Russia--which have made various investigations so confusing, establishes who Oswald was and what he thought he was doing (protecting the president), and how the coverup happened, and why, and who was involved at that point. Most important of all, Douglass provides brilliant analysis and original research on the motives--on who JFK was and what he had done and was doing that prompted the assassination.

Douglass assesses the Warren Commission Report and all the research and analysis that has been done since then, and provides detailed discussions of the shooters, the witnesses, the secondary plot (Chicago), and all the other issues that have arisen from misdirection, destroyed evidence, missing or mishandled evidence, misinterpreted evidence (deliberate and not), the tragic lives of people who knew some part of the truth and suffered because of it (or were killed) and much more. He is totally convincing on CIA guilt for the assassination.

But, as I said, his most important contribution is the CONTEXT, and why it matters.

In summary, what he says is that JFK's refusal to nuke Russia during the Cuban Missile Crisis was the heart of the motive. He stood alone against the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the entire "MIC" on that issue, with only his brother Bobby as an ally. He opened backchannels to Krushchev and Castro, to evade CIA monitoring, and to negotiate a new era of world peace (peaceful competition of the two economic systems, end to the proxy wars such as Vietnam). The Joint Chiefs felt that they had missile superiority over Russia, would "win" a nuclear war with Russia and should strike while they had the edge. Kennedy thought they were insane. Kennedy proceeded with his plans for world peace--first of all, by a secret agreement to withdraw U.S. missiles from Turkey (on Russia's border) in exchange for Russia withdrawing its missiles from Cuba, by sending wheat to Russia after a Russian harvest failure, the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty (first treaty limiting nukes), executive orders to de-escalate U.S. troops in Vietnam and other actions.

The Bay of Pigs fiasco, in the first months of JFK's presidency, was the CIA and the Miami mafia's doing. The CIA Director, Allen Dulles, lied to JFK that the invasion had local support in Cuba, and, when no local support materialized in Cuba, tried to blackmail JFK into involving the U.S. military in support of the ragtag band of CIA operatives who had "invaded" the island. As the result of that episode, JFK fired Dulles and vowed to "smash the CIA into a thousand pieces." (Douglass points to Allen Dulles as probable master-mind of the assassination, but doesn't nail him as well as he does Richard Helms. Dulles was no longer Director at the time of the assassination but could well have still been in control of various parts of it or all of it.)

The CIA was, in fact, doing this sort of thing to JFK all over the world--creating contrived, CIA-funded groups and factions, or outright false rebel groups (no group, as in Cuba) which were simply fronts for the CIA to control the country and to smash legitimate movements for social justice and sovereignty. Vietnam's communist party was, above all, a movement for social justice and sovereignty, led by Vietnamese hero Ho Chi Minh who had driven the French colonialists out of Vietnam and who was by no means hostile to the U.S. at the time that Vietnam declared its independence. The "South Vietnam" opposition was real but was far outnumbered by pro-Ho Chi Minh patriots and leftists, and was very, very corrupt. But it took JFK a long time to realize what the CIA was doing and to begin taking steps to the foil them. Communications were not instant in those days. JFK was often misinformed about what was going on in Vietnam, for instance, and would find out, after the fact, that his orders had not been obeyed.

Then came the Cuban Missile Crisis. Russia put nuke missiles in Cuba BECAUSE OF THE CIA'S ATTEMPTED INVASION OF CUBA (the "Bay of Pigs". It was a provocative but, in these circumstances, an understandable action. (They weren't suicidal. They thought Cuba, an important ally, was going to be invaded again and that their missiles would deter it.) It was during this crisis that JFK's "learning curve" about the CIA and the MIC took a steep jump into enlightenment. He was dealing with people who thought nothing of hundreds of thousands of casualties on the east coast of the U.S., during a nuclear exchange, and the obliteration of an entire country, Russia, and the island of Cuba--with first strikes. They were arrayed against him with what was, to him, this insane notion.

In addition to meticulously laying JFK's growth as a man and a president, and his change from a "Cold Warrior" to a man saw beyond the "Cold War" to a peaceful world, Douglass provides CONTEXT that helps explain his opponents' thinking--which was, after he refused to strike Russia, that HE was the traitor! His peaceful resolution of the Cuban Missile Crisis and his subsequent actions, as his belief in diplomacy and peace grew, only confirmed their view. That was the best of them--those with genuine but deluded and twisted patriotism. Some were just insane powermongers and/or war profiteers--such as those we have seen recently, in our government, with the Bush Junta.

This is Why. It. Still. Matters.

Similar forces of vast secrecy, powermongering and war profiteering--some with roots back to those assassins, and some a new breed of the same--are still operating within our national political establishment and certainly within our government and military. That is why it matters! Things did, indeed, go very, very wrong in November 1963, and they have never been righted. Our government is now more secretive and undemocratic than it has ever been; it can be easily--EASILY--turned to war, mass murder, torture and other heinous crimes, and there is nothing that we can do about it. It all gets swept under the rug.

Douglass also addresses some things that have always bothered me (besides the assassination itself and the coverup), for instance, was LBJ (JFK's VP and successor) involved in the assassination? Douglass doesn't think he was, but establishes that he was involved in the coverup and convincingly establishes his reasons for that. The CIA misdirection (of the assassination) to Russia (by sending low level operative Oswald to Russia and returning him here in a state of mystification as to what his mission was) was intended to force his successor, LBJ, to nuke Russia in retaliation for the murder of the President. The CIA wanted, in this way, to achieve what they couldn't achieve with JFK as President--the obliteration of Russia. Herbert Hoover (of all people) informed LBJ of this misdirection just days after the assassination, and LBJ, a) did not want to nuke Russia for something they didn't do; and b) did not want the American people to find any of this out, because LBJ was not at all hostile to militarism and war (as JFK had become) and did not want the American people to turn against the MIC.

Three days after JFK's assassination, LBJ said, "Now they can have their war." He was speaking of the CIA and Vietnam.

Douglass doesn't go into the 1964 election--a year after JFK's assassination, with LBJ as the Democratic candidate. But his book leads up to it. JFK had intended to run on a platform of world peace in 1964 (Douglass does document this). He believed that the American people would be with him on this and it is clear that he would have won that election, hands down. How do I know this? Because LBJ ran on a peace platform and won one of the biggest presidential victories in our history. That was my first vote for president and I remember it well. I voted for peace and so did over 60% of the American people. The trouble was that LBJ was lying. He was already undoing JFK's de-escalation and planning a major war--to satisfy the war profiteer interests and the "anti-communists" and their allies, the corporatists, the banksters and the millionaires who dreaded social justice and other "communist" ideas, and, of course, the CIA, who had worked so hard to turn the extremely corrupt, fascist South Vietnamese 1%-ers and their leaders into a government that the U.S. could pretend to be "defending."

Peace would have won. That. Is. Why. It. Still. Matters.

Not many people know this, but 56% of the American people opposed the war on Iraq (Feb. '03, all polls). How this mostly peace-loving country was turned, once again, into the looting base for war profiteers and mass murderers and torturers and international scofflaws, with its democratic traditions, rights and love of justice and fairness shredded almost beyond repair, is OUR story NOW. It is the story of those of us who remember November 22, 1963, and those too young to remember.

"JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters" is not just highly recommended. It is essential reading for anyone who wants to understand our world, now.

Douglass is writing two more books--on Martin Luther King's assassination and Robert Kennedy's assassination, which occurred in the same year, 1968, only five years after JFK's assassination, with protests against the Vietnam War raging, and both of these leaders opposing the war. I look forward to those books. If the official stories are also wrong on those murders--and, from what I've read, they probably are--I would guess that digging out the truth will be harder in those cases than with JFK's murder. The techniques of misdirection and disinformation in a domestic assassination would likely be better honed five years later, colluders and cover would be more secure, and the perps bolder.

My guess: The CIA did both murders and the motive was similar--keeping the country on a war footing for its advantages to secret powermongers and for the profit of the "welfare capitalists" living on the public dole and planning world dominion. I am especially suspicious about RFK's assassination. MLK's murder could have been ugly, hate-filled southern whites--they had murdered before--but given MLK's dramatic speech at Riverside Church eloquently condemning the Vietnam War--and the proximity of MLK's and RFK's murders (only three months apart), it is quite feasible that it had the same motive and the same perps (though different operatives): continued war and war profiteering, and smashing the hugely popular peace and justice movement that had arisen around these two leaders.

I await Douglass' research and analysis, in these next two books. I know less about these assassinations than about JFK's, for the simple reason that I couldn't bear to read about them; I became so disgusted that I just turned it all off, for a long, long time. This was a mistake. Our society has been gravely poisoned by these events and the remedy is not to close our eyes, but to figure out what the poison is and purge it. The remedy is openness and honesty--and also determination to restore our country's health and try to create a better world. Burying your head in the sand is not a remedy.

Douglass makes this very clear. The healing must start with the truth about JFK's murder, that elements within our own government and society killed the president because he wanted to create a more peaceful world.

He served in the U.S. Navy in WW II and suffered wounds in combat from which he had never fully recovered (chronic back pain). He was also a "Cold Warrior" until the Cuban Missile Crisis. That he could see beyond that paranoia is what makes him so special, and that and the coverup are what makes his murder such a terrible wound, from which many of us have never recovered. He had the ability to CHANGE--to abandon the politics of war and try to invent the politics of peace: helping the "evil communists" with their wheat failure, making treaties with them about nukes, talking to them, listening to them--hearing about Kruschev's problems with his own militarists from Krushchev himself, and trying to evaluate his evident desire for a peaceful world, without CIA filtering, lies, distortions, misdirection and arrogance. JFK took these steps though he had been schooled to do otherwise--to hate, fear and fight communists--because, when faced with nuclear armageddon, he found that he could not do that to the human race and determined to find humanity's way OUT of this conflict.

It's not that one leader is so important. No individual leader ever is. And it's not that JFK didn't make mistakes. He certainly did. It's all of us that matter and how we, collectively, govern ourselves, and what we believe in, and live for--and dream of. A world without war. A world without want. A government that truly reflects our own generous and peaceful spirit. A country and society that we can be truly proud of, in our deepest selves. Those shots in Dallas were aimed at all of us, as a nation, from within, by our own militarists and war profiteers. And until we face that awful reality, we cannot recover from it.

The OP asks for "accountability" for those who did it. That is basically impossible. But exposing the truth, and reforming or abolishing the institutions that still operate in this way--in obsessive secrecy, in violation of the rule of law, for war and other profit--these actions ARE possible. Holding the system accountable IS possible. Renewing our democratic spirit IS possible.

We've just gone through a fresh set of horrors from the militarists among us, who are very like the militarists of 1963. They have cleverer ways of controlling our government now and even less accountability. We need to address this cumulative militarism and secrecy. That IS possible. Difficult, but possible. But it has to begin with knowing what you are up against, facing the reality of it, understanding its origins, and forming your own view of what democracy is all about, and fighting for accountability NOW. We can't do 1963 over. All we have is now. Is it to be an oblivious now, in which huge crimes, treason, lawlessness and murder get swept away as if they never happened, and then get repeated in ugly cycles of mass murder and mass looting? Or is it to be a conscious now, fully informed about the past, awake, aware and determined to make a a better country and a better world?

That is why it still matters.

Peace

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 508 replies Author Time Post
Octafish Nov 2012 OP
zappaman Nov 2012 #1
lonestarnot Nov 2012 #4
stopbush Nov 2012 #8
Politicalboi Nov 2012 #223
Cetacea Nov 2012 #285
Octafish Nov 2012 #19
stopbush Nov 2012 #29
Octafish Nov 2012 #34
stopbush Nov 2012 #50
MrMickeysMom Nov 2012 #76
stopbush Nov 2012 #84
MrMickeysMom Nov 2012 #161
stopbush Nov 2012 #188
Octafish Nov 2012 #243
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #305
zappaman Nov 2012 #313
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #317
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #165
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #181
Caretha Nov 2012 #189
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #235
Ya Basta Nov 2012 #425
stopbush Nov 2012 #429
stopbush Nov 2012 #433
zappaman Nov 2012 #434
stopbush Nov 2012 #436
The Doctor. Nov 2012 #38
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #301
jeggus Nov 2012 #39
YoungDemCA Nov 2012 #49
MrMickeysMom Nov 2012 #78
Octafish Nov 2012 #444
EOTE Nov 2012 #337
Warren DeMontague Nov 2012 #150
Post removed Nov 2012 #226
colorado_ufo Nov 2012 #40
arthritisR_US Nov 2012 #55
hifiguy Nov 2012 #485
arthritisR_US Nov 2012 #497
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #158
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #168
stopbush Nov 2012 #193
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #199
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #220
stopbush Nov 2012 #251
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #253
stopbush Nov 2012 #275
AntiFascist Nov 2012 #377
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #45
arthritisR_US Nov 2012 #58
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #69
arthritisR_US Nov 2012 #117
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #134
zappaman Nov 2012 #136
arthritisR_US Nov 2012 #157
cpwm17 Nov 2012 #231
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #163
stopbush Nov 2012 #190
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #192
stopbush Nov 2012 #195
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #203
Hermes Daughter Nov 2012 #222
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #264
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #279
stopbush Nov 2012 #276
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #281
stopbush Nov 2012 #375
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #396
stopbush Nov 2012 #417
AntiFascist Nov 2012 #486
AntiFascist Nov 2012 #415
NoMoreWarNow Nov 2012 #63
avebury Nov 2012 #77
stopbush Nov 2012 #87
avebury Nov 2012 #93
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #173
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #112
stopbush Nov 2012 #124
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #127
stopbush Nov 2012 #196
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #224
stopbush Nov 2012 #263
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #339
FogerRox Nov 2012 #364
stopbush Nov 2012 #380
Octafish Nov 2012 #446
stopbush Nov 2012 #374
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #381
stopbush Nov 2012 #383
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #410
stopbush Nov 2012 #418
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #422
stopbush Nov 2012 #427
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #456
cpwm17 Nov 2012 #406
zappaman Nov 2012 #348
Festivito Nov 2012 #131
Michigan Alum Nov 2012 #378
Phx_Dem Nov 2012 #113
RomneyLies Nov 2012 #61
frogmarch Nov 2012 #86
stopbush Nov 2012 #92
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #140
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #167
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #175
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #184
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #194
stopbush Nov 2012 #198
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #206
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #207
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #191
Hermes Daughter Nov 2012 #219
rbrnmw Nov 2012 #409
Hermes Daughter Nov 2012 #459
Cetacea Nov 2012 #284
billh58 Nov 2012 #330
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #246
frogmarch Nov 2012 #282
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #311
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #170
lonestarnot Nov 2012 #274
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #359
gstxdem4445ex Nov 2012 #236
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #343
Cirque du So-What Nov 2012 #2
zappaman Nov 2012 #3
stopbush Nov 2012 #9
edbermac Nov 2012 #21
stopbush Nov 2012 #27
Berlum Nov 2012 #33
Iggy Nov 2012 #132
Berlum Nov 2012 #160
Iggy Nov 2012 #270
stopbush Nov 2012 #382
Iggy Nov 2012 #384
stopbush Nov 2012 #389
edbermac Nov 2012 #145
stopbush Nov 2012 #204
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #205
hedgehog Nov 2012 #369
DJ13 Nov 2012 #53
cpwm17 Nov 2012 #233
DJ13 Nov 2012 #237
Octafish Nov 2012 #259
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #268
cpwm17 Nov 2012 #307
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #319
cpwm17 Nov 2012 #368
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #373
cpwm17 Nov 2012 #465
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #479
cpwm17 Nov 2012 #490
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #493
AntiFascist Nov 2012 #420
Octafish Nov 2012 #22
AnotherDreamWeaver Nov 2012 #95
zappaman Nov 2012 #105
stopbush Nov 2012 #125
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #202
bobthedrummer Nov 2012 #5
Octafish Nov 2012 #24
MrMickeysMom Nov 2012 #80
bobthedrummer Nov 2012 #89
CanSocDem Nov 2012 #6
YoungDemCA Nov 2012 #12
Octafish Nov 2012 #48
YoungDemCA Nov 2012 #57
CanSocDem Nov 2012 #99
stopbush Nov 2012 #7
bobthedrummer Nov 2012 #10
stopbush Nov 2012 #14
bobthedrummer Nov 2012 #16
stopbush Nov 2012 #17
bobthedrummer Nov 2012 #18
stopbush Nov 2012 #23
Octafish Nov 2012 #25
stopbush Nov 2012 #30
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #83
stopbush Nov 2012 #97
zappaman Nov 2012 #106
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #118
zappaman Nov 2012 #119
stopbush Nov 2012 #121
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #126
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #357
MrMickeysMom Nov 2012 #171
HangOnKids Nov 2012 #232
bobthedrummer Nov 2012 #32
MadHound Nov 2012 #26
stopbush Nov 2012 #41
Eyes of the World Nov 2012 #103
stopbush Nov 2012 #109
Eyes of the World Nov 2012 #110
stopbush Nov 2012 #123
Eyes of the World Nov 2012 #111
FogerRox Nov 2012 #366
tonybgood Nov 2012 #46
stopbush Nov 2012 #75
Caretha Nov 2012 #208
tonybgood Nov 2012 #291
stopbush Nov 2012 #419
tonybgood Nov 2012 #439
stopbush Nov 2012 #448
Octafish Nov 2012 #461
stopbush Nov 2012 #462
Octafish Nov 2012 #471
hootinholler Nov 2012 #472
tonybgood Nov 2012 #483
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #177
Octafish Nov 2012 #297
stopbush Nov 2012 #11
Octafish Nov 2012 #31
stopbush Nov 2012 #43
Octafish Nov 2012 #52
stopbush Nov 2012 #65
rbrnmw Nov 2012 #489
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #217
stopbush Nov 2012 #254
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #269
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #266
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #172
stopbush Nov 2012 #200
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #212
ananda Nov 2012 #13
stopbush Nov 2012 #15
The Doctor. Nov 2012 #51
stopbush Nov 2012 #59
The Doctor. Nov 2012 #67
stopbush Nov 2012 #73
Octafish Nov 2012 #481
Overseas Nov 2012 #20
Octafish Nov 2012 #398
patrice Nov 2012 #28
Octafish Nov 2012 #400
patrice Nov 2012 #401
Old and In the Way Nov 2012 #35
Octafish Nov 2012 #156
TheMightyFavog Nov 2012 #36
Mc Mike Nov 2012 #405
TheMightyFavog Nov 2012 #416
Tumbulu Nov 2012 #37
stopbush Nov 2012 #100
billh58 Nov 2012 #42
stopbush Nov 2012 #44
The Doctor. Nov 2012 #56
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #91
stopbush Nov 2012 #102
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #187
billh58 Nov 2012 #104
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #122
zappaman Nov 2012 #129
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #142
zappaman Nov 2012 #147
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #152
zappaman Nov 2012 #355
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #362
zappaman Nov 2012 #367
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #372
stopbush Nov 2012 #137
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #141
stopbush Nov 2012 #209
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #214
Caretha Nov 2012 #213
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #218
Caretha Nov 2012 #221
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #225
stopbush Nov 2012 #256
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #85
billh58 Nov 2012 #101
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #128
zappaman Nov 2012 #130
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #146
zappaman Nov 2012 #149
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #151
zappaman Nov 2012 #154
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #159
zappaman Nov 2012 #162
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #183
Caretha Nov 2012 #216
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #431
billh58 Nov 2012 #241
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #250
billh58 Nov 2012 #346
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #349
billh58 Nov 2012 #352
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #363
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #435
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #442
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #447
billh58 Nov 2012 #452
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #328
billh58 Nov 2012 #336
YoungDemCA Nov 2012 #47
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #60
MrMickeysMom Nov 2012 #70
stopbush Nov 2012 #107
MrMickeysMom Nov 2012 #164
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #197
billh58 Nov 2012 #245
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #252
billh58 Nov 2012 #273
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #334
billh58 Nov 2012 #342
stopbush Nov 2012 #260
FlaGranny Nov 2012 #79
Rex Nov 2012 #308
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #54
The Doctor. Nov 2012 #62
NoMoreWarNow Nov 2012 #66
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #96
The Doctor. Nov 2012 #230
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #133
zappaman Nov 2012 #135
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #139
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #290
zappaman Nov 2012 #292
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #295
zappaman Nov 2012 #296
Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2012 #494
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #138
Octafish Nov 2012 #428
Spider Jerusalem Nov 2012 #64
Octafish Nov 2012 #340
Spider Jerusalem Nov 2012 #358
AntiFascist Nov 2012 #460
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #68
Little Star Nov 2012 #81
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #94
stopbush Nov 2012 #115
zappaman Nov 2012 #116
Octafish Nov 2012 #244
stopbush Nov 2012 #392
Octafish Nov 2012 #399
Octafish Nov 2012 #464
dwp6577 Nov 2012 #71
Octafish Nov 2012 #258
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #314
Octafish Nov 2012 #332
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #350
x2 vancouverite Nov 2012 #72
newspeak Nov 2012 #90
stopbush Nov 2012 #98
AntiFascist Nov 2012 #466
H2O Man Nov 2012 #74
Octafish Nov 2012 #354
H2O Man Nov 2012 #360
Octafish Nov 2012 #371
triplepoint Nov 2012 #82
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #88
dflprincess Nov 2012 #238
hootinholler Nov 2012 #108
stopbush Nov 2012 #265
hootinholler Nov 2012 #280
stopbush Nov 2012 #376
Octafish Nov 2012 #391
stopbush Nov 2012 #430
Octafish Nov 2012 #438
stopbush Nov 2012 #443
Octafish Nov 2012 #445
stopbush Nov 2012 #449
Octafish Nov 2012 #454
Post removed Nov 2012 #463
hootinholler Nov 2012 #470
hootinholler Nov 2012 #395
stopbush Nov 2012 #441
hootinholler Nov 2012 #451
Octafish Nov 2012 #414
Iggy Nov 2012 #114
Octafish Nov 2012 #312
Iggy Nov 2012 #385
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #458
Deep13 Nov 2012 #120
upi402 Nov 2012 #143
Deep13 Nov 2012 #153
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #169
Deep13 Nov 2012 #182
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #185
Deep13 Nov 2012 #227
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #257
Octafish Nov 2012 #390
Deep13 Nov 2012 #411
Octafish Nov 2012 #413
Odin2005 Nov 2012 #144
zappaman Nov 2012 #148
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #298
zappaman Nov 2012 #299
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #302
zappaman Nov 2012 #310
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #320
zappaman Nov 2012 #321
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #324
Octafish Nov 2012 #333
orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #155
Octafish Nov 2012 #338
orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #347
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #166
zappaman Nov 2012 #174
MrMickeysMom Nov 2012 #178
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #186
stopbush Nov 2012 #210
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #180
zappaman Nov 2012 #176
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #179
AzDar Nov 2012 #201
RagAss Nov 2012 #211
AntiFascist Nov 2012 #424
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #476
RagAss Nov 2012 #487
colsohlibgal Nov 2012 #215
LongTomH Nov 2012 #228
Initech Nov 2012 #229
allrevvedup Nov 2012 #249
ailsagirl Nov 2012 #234
cpwm17 Nov 2012 #262
LineReply Highly recommended: "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters,"
Peace Patriot Nov 2012 #239
allrevvedup Nov 2012 #247
Peace Patriot Nov 2012 #272
cpwm17 Nov 2012 #318
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #394
Octafish Nov 2012 #397
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #403
allrevvedup Nov 2012 #421
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #432
allrevvedup Nov 2012 #474
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #477
allrevvedup Nov 2012 #491
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #492
allrevvedup Dec 2012 #506
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #507
LongTomH Nov 2012 #351
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #240
stopbush Nov 2012 #267
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #277
zappaman Nov 2012 #287
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #289
stopbush Nov 2012 #379
tex-wyo-dem Nov 2012 #242
Octafish Nov 2012 #387
allrevvedup Nov 2012 #248
Octafish Nov 2012 #386
Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2012 #255
cpwm17 Nov 2012 #309
Octafish Nov 2012 #388
Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2012 #404
davidn3600 Nov 2012 #261
zappaman Nov 2012 #294
craigmatic Nov 2012 #304
laundry_queen Nov 2012 #316
JustAnotherGen Nov 2012 #271
KoKo Nov 2012 #278
Mc Mike Nov 2012 #283
billh58 Nov 2012 #288
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #325
billh58 Nov 2012 #335
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #353
billh58 Nov 2012 #356
Mc Mike Nov 2012 #408
Mc Mike Nov 2012 #393
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #293
Octafish Nov 2012 #306
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #322
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #323
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #327
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #341
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #345
Mc Mike Nov 2012 #402
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #412
Mc Mike Nov 2012 #426
Octafish Nov 2012 #440
Mc Mike Nov 2012 #475
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #315
Mc Mike Nov 2012 #407
MrMickeysMom Nov 2012 #455
Mc Mike Nov 2012 #480
Cetacea Nov 2012 #286
craigmatic Nov 2012 #300
FogerRox Nov 2012 #365
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #303
1444tx Nov 2012 #326
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #329
1444tx Nov 2012 #331
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #361
billh58 Nov 2012 #370
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #344
MrMickeysMom Nov 2012 #453
Judi Lynn Nov 2012 #423
Octafish Nov 2012 #495
DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2012 #437
billh58 Nov 2012 #457
AntiFascist Nov 2012 #468
billh58 Nov 2012 #469
AntiFascist Nov 2012 #473
billh58 Nov 2012 #482
AntiFascist Nov 2012 #484
cpwm17 Nov 2012 #467
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #478
cpwm17 Nov 2012 #488
Octafish Nov 2012 #496
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #450
MinM Nov 2012 #498
MinM Nov 2012 #499
Octafish Nov 2012 #500
MinM Nov 2012 #501
Octafish Dec 2012 #502
MinM Dec 2012 #503
Berlum Dec 2012 #505
Octafish Jan 2013 #508
LineNew Reply .
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #504
Please login to view edit histories.