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In reply to the discussion: Manchin and Tester Joined the repubs to Overturn the Executive Order Re: Keystone Pipeline [View all]Celerity
(43,312 posts)34. again with the spin
I'm not the one who's demanding that he act, speak and vote as if he was a senator from some New England state.
No one is doing this. He is voting to block (on certain things) what the ENTIRE rest of the Party (including Biden, but perhaps, on a few things, the exception of Sinema) is for. All for what purpose? It pusts our entire majority in both the House and the senate at risk and handcuffs Biden as well.
As for the rest, you are just re-hashing blustery ad hominem and continual false-faming. You always try and taint other posters' replies via framing like
You try and control the narrative and make others look bad by painting legitimate disagreements with such tosh as
when they (and me in this case) are pointing out real potential dangers.
You are not the gatekeeper of what is and what isn't legitimate criticism, as much as you try and elevate yourself to this level.
You also, ironically, do the exact same thing you are accusing me and others of when it comes to politicians in the Dem caucus who you yourself do not like.
We are NOT scapegoating, kneecapping, demonizing, we are pointing out stances and votes and posturing by him that is against basically the entire rest of the Party.
One man is NOT bigger than the collective rest of the Party, especially when there is no direct causational linkage (show me some) between these blocking stances on the subjects at hand and his almost 4-years-away re-election chances.
His blockages on these issues are not intrinsically necessary for him to win again. They WILL however, if they continue, seriously hurt our collective chances to retain our majorities, plus will hurt millions of Americans.
The average voter is not going to go down into the deep weeds of congressional votes and say, 'Wow, Manchin had to do it or he might have lost in 4 years!' and then say 'So, all those promises you failed at keeping? Well, I forgive your party breaking them and i will vote even more enthusiastically in 2022 and 2024.'
That line of thinking is simply not a solid take on the things.
Our entire main thrust in the two GA run-offs was 'give us the Senate and we will pass this and this and this, etc etc and all will be far better'
There was no 'only if Joe Manchin deems it so' caveat'.
He likely is thwarting the will of the entire rest of the party (including Biden) in some cases (or in others helping lead the thwarting).
That will have serious consequences for us as a whole IF he keeps it up.
It is a matter of size of impacts (a hypothetical effect on his 4 years off re-election versus the rest of the party and the nation in the here and now and in 2022).
Finally,
I am immune to your style of posting.
Go try with someone else.
My posts all stand.
No one is doing this. He is voting to block (on certain things) what the ENTIRE rest of the Party (including Biden, but perhaps, on a few things, the exception of Sinema) is for. All for what purpose? It pusts our entire majority in both the House and the senate at risk and handcuffs Biden as well.
As for the rest, you are just re-hashing blustery ad hominem and continual false-faming. You always try and taint other posters' replies via framing like
All this hand-wringing and grinding of teeth
You try and control the narrative and make others look bad by painting legitimate disagreements with such tosh as
Whining about it won't change anything. Demonizing him won't change anything. Kneecapping him and scapegoating
when they (and me in this case) are pointing out real potential dangers.
You are not the gatekeeper of what is and what isn't legitimate criticism, as much as you try and elevate yourself to this level.
You also, ironically, do the exact same thing you are accusing me and others of when it comes to politicians in the Dem caucus who you yourself do not like.
We are NOT scapegoating, kneecapping, demonizing, we are pointing out stances and votes and posturing by him that is against basically the entire rest of the Party.
One man is NOT bigger than the collective rest of the Party, especially when there is no direct causational linkage (show me some) between these blocking stances on the subjects at hand and his almost 4-years-away re-election chances.
His blockages on these issues are not intrinsically necessary for him to win again. They WILL however, if they continue, seriously hurt our collective chances to retain our majorities, plus will hurt millions of Americans.
The average voter is not going to go down into the deep weeds of congressional votes and say, 'Wow, Manchin had to do it or he might have lost in 4 years!' and then say 'So, all those promises you failed at keeping? Well, I forgive your party breaking them and i will vote even more enthusiastically in 2022 and 2024.'
That line of thinking is simply not a solid take on the things.
Our entire main thrust in the two GA run-offs was 'give us the Senate and we will pass this and this and this, etc etc and all will be far better'
There was no 'only if Joe Manchin deems it so' caveat'.
He likely is thwarting the will of the entire rest of the party (including Biden) in some cases (or in others helping lead the thwarting).
That will have serious consequences for us as a whole IF he keeps it up.
It is a matter of size of impacts (a hypothetical effect on his 4 years off re-election versus the rest of the party and the nation in the here and now and in 2022).
Finally,
I am immune to your style of posting.
Go try with someone else.
My posts all stand.
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Manchin and Tester Joined the repubs to Overturn the Executive Order Re: Keystone Pipeline [View all]
mucifer
Feb 2021
OP
FFS. Manchin, if he continues down the path he is on so far, will do more than any other person
Celerity
Feb 2021
#3
and more to come, he is or will block Biden promises (not Bernie level, but Biden, mainstream) to
Celerity
Feb 2021
#7
+1 great short, concise breakdown of one of our key structural weak points that Manchin is hurting
Celerity
Feb 2021
#18
He needs to stop blocking Biden's agenda, simple as that, as it quite possibly will have disastrous
Celerity
Feb 2021
#14
It is not scaoegoating, as he is the one actually doing this, whether single handedly or
Celerity
Feb 2021
#23
There's no need for me to answer questions you already know the answer to...
NurseJackie
Feb 2021
#33
If it was not for Joe Manchin Joe Biden literally would not be able to seat a federal judge
Cosmocat
Feb 2021
#25