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Salviati

(6,008 posts)
17. Yup, learned that back in a history of industrialization class back in college and it's stuck around
Sat Jan 11, 2020, 10:22 PM
Jan 2020

I should a have been a bit more clear, the rule I had been referencing is that it's proportional to the fourth power of axle weight, so more axles would tend to reduce the wear...

You can find it on Wikipedia, along with their sourcing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_axle_weight_rating

and a bit of talk about the determination of this at this page - where it goes into the orgins of this rule in a report put out by the highway engineers at The American Association of State Highway Officials, in the 50's and 60's, where they ran emperical tests to measure road wear.

http://www.cyclelicio.us/2014/fourth-power-rule-road-tax/

The exact conditions and measure of wear can play a big role in that however. A more recent paper, from the Texas Dept of Transportation in 2001, that looks at differences between more flexible and more rigid pavement, as well as different measures of wear - cracking vs. rutting, shows that the exponent can go down for some measures, e.g. the rate of cracking goes like axle weight squared, but rutting like axle weight to the 8th power.

https://ctr.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/pubs/2122_1.pdf

So, as is to be expected, real world data is messy, but what does seem to hold up is that road wear increases very rapidly with vehicle (axle) weight

This message was self-deleted by its author Sherman A1 Jan 2020 #1
But at the same time, as the world burns down around us, it behooves us to encourage as many Squinch Jan 2020 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author Sherman A1 Jan 2020 #6
Road use tax or toll. And before you tell me its regressive, so is a gas tax. Squinch Jan 2020 #28
PS: If you think about it, petroleum use is responsible for just about every problem we have. Squinch Jan 2020 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author Sherman A1 Jan 2020 #42
As I said above, road use tax or toll. Or, as said below, simply increase the gas tax. That will Squinch Jan 2020 #69
ALEC... and they are after solar panels for your roof too. lapfog_1 Jan 2020 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Sherman A1 Jan 2020 #25
Ah! Yes! Newest Reality Jan 2020 #56
States are giving incentives to buy EV's and more efficient cars, how does it make sense to then coti Jan 2020 #46
This message was self-deleted by its author Sherman A1 Jan 2020 #64
Same taxes as always, this isn't an actual problem. nt coti Jan 2020 #66
This message was self-deleted by its author Sherman A1 Jan 2020 #68
You need to figure out what you'll save in Ohio gas tax over 5 years Kaleva Jan 2020 #2
$700 or less for typical commuters lapfog_1 Jan 2020 #12
So the fee for the hybrids corresponds to what the average driver pays in gas tax? Kaleva Jan 2020 #21
Ok my current car gets 26 MPG and I drive 12000 miles per year I would pay $129 tax. doc03 Jan 2020 #13
It's a wash when you factor in federal tx and average driving distance. Kaleva Jan 2020 #22
The same bill increases the gas tax to $0.385 sl8 Jan 2020 #35
I did that and included the federal tax. Kaleva Jan 2020 #36
Are you sure you used the new rate? sl8 Jan 2020 #43
According to this source, combined fed and state tax is .469 a gallon Kaleva Jan 2020 #45
None of this matters, the amount saved is the pump price nt coti Jan 2020 #48
From that link: sl8 Jan 2020 #61
You are quite right! I didn't carry the 1. Kaleva Jan 2020 #63
Happens to the best of us. n/t sl8 Jan 2020 #76
That would already be accounted for by the gas savings he/she is likely calculating nt coti Jan 2020 #47
He'd save more by going with a Civic. Kaleva Jan 2020 #53
Across the board mileage for a non-hypermiled Prius in decent weather is usually well above 50 mpg coti Jan 2020 #54
He drives just 12k a year Kaleva Jan 2020 #57
It sucks, but it's only fair Ohiogal Jan 2020 #4
or build your own roads and refuse to pay the state lol nt msongs Jan 2020 #5
Then it should be a road use tax. As our earth burns around us we should not be taxing one of the Squinch Jan 2020 #29
Except that it completely goes against general liberal public policy coti Jan 2020 #49
Kind of brings back the rationale for road tolls, eh? Just thinking out loud here...until they... SWBTATTReg Jan 2020 #77
OK using the logic that if you drive a hybrid you use less gas so you need to pay doc03 Jan 2020 #7
Road wear & tear Disaffected Jan 2020 #8
It's actually proportional to the fourth power of weight... Salviati Jan 2020 #11
Fourth power? Disaffected Jan 2020 #15
Yup, learned that back in a history of industrialization class back in college and it's stuck around Salviati Jan 2020 #17
Wow jberryhill Jan 2020 #19
Excellent Disaffected Jan 2020 #24
Thanks for the ed, Salviati. Axle weight and wear. Hortensis Jan 2020 #33
In WA State GP6971 Jan 2020 #18
Why not buy a Honda Civic that gets 35 mpg? Kaleva Jan 2020 #23
Have you priced a Honda Civic lately? I did to replace my 2005 Civic. Big sticker shock. Squinch Jan 2020 #30
I see 20k for a new Civic Kaleva Jan 2020 #37
My last one was the stripped down 2005. This time I wanted a sunroof. Add in floor mats, Squinch Jan 2020 #55
What year was the Lexus? Kaleva Jan 2020 #58
Talking hybrids is a needed discussion. It's a vital transition to an all-electric future. Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #39
But one point I have tried to make several times doc03 Jan 2020 #44
There are proposals to tax miles driven in a year. Kaleva Jan 2020 #51
Relative to the weight of the vehicle, as posted by Salviati above. hunter Jan 2020 #85
The reasoning is all hogwash, doc. Stems from envy. Don't let anyone dissuade you from buying coti Jan 2020 #65
Well I will buy a conventional gas vehicle then and doc03 Jan 2020 #73
You're being fed misinformation by people who don't know what they're talking about. coti Jan 2020 #74
I guess if you don't support union workers, a Prius is a good choice MichMan Jan 2020 #80
Given how little you drive, I don't see how getting a hybrid makes economic sense. Kaleva Jan 2020 #86
I'd suggest a Honda Fit. PoindexterOglethorpe Jan 2020 #78
I bought my Honda Civic Hybrid in 2003. Got a $2000 tax break spanone Jan 2020 #10
I was considering a Toyota RAV4 hybrid rather than the gas model. Unless you put lots of doc03 Jan 2020 #14
Yeah, Disaffected Jan 2020 #16
these batterries have at least eight years of warranty, you also put less co2 in the air Demonaut Jan 2020 #20
My mechanic tells me that is a scare story and he's seen batteries last 300k miles. Squinch Jan 2020 #31
I got the tax deduction on my 2007 Prius when I bought it new. Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #40
I bought a Hybrid brand new 2019 just before this law... FarPoint Jan 2020 #26
California does the same thing as well ansible Jan 2020 #67
Better idea . . . Aussie105 Jan 2020 #27
This is a MUCH better idea. Squinch Jan 2020 #32
And once you accomplish that, how do you pay for the roads? jberryhill Jan 2020 #52
Gasoline use is and will be going quite strong for a long time. coti Jan 2020 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author Squinch Jan 2020 #71
Self deleted. Coti said almost exactly what I did, right down to the big celebration. Squinch Jan 2020 #72
By my calculations, the money saved by a hybrid owner is about the same as the fee. Kaleva Jan 2020 #38
They just need to tax per mile driven madville Jan 2020 #41
Aren't we supposed to be creating advantages to driving more efficient vehicles? coti Jan 2020 #50
It makes sure everyone pays their fair share madville Jan 2020 #75
Why not? Isn't the poor person in the Honda Civic contributing to global warming with their vehicle coti Jan 2020 #82
Most road damage is done by heavy trucks and semis VMA131Marine Jan 2020 #60
I think there should be an incentive for people la-trucker Jan 2020 #62
Wouldn't that be nice? And maybe even help us not all fry to death. But no. People need Squinch Jan 2020 #70
Need sharp increases in gas taxes to discourage people buying trucks and large SUV MichMan Jan 2020 #79
Just bought a Prius Prime today. CanonRay Jan 2020 #81
Well done. nt coti Jan 2020 #83
Problem with a hybrid is that you have two systems to maintain. Maybe Enoki33 Jan 2020 #84
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