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woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
83. You know what? To hell with these admonitions that DU become just like the MSM.
Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:54 PM
Sep 2012

Seriously. There could not be a more ridiculous, misguided, and pernicious suggestion for DU. We are already drowning in a sea of "messaging" and propaganda and an MSM that utterly ignores, obscures, and misrepresents the most important issues in our nation right now. We are continually force-fed pablum and fairytales about what is really happening to all of us. And now you want to turn the political gathering places we have left in into more of the same?

No. We have our fill of propaganda theater, thank you very much, every goddamn day and on every goddamn network. Especially during an election year, an electorate needs places to talk honestly about what is really going on.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/30/election-2012-media-vast-rightwing-conspiracy-stupid

Election 2012 and the media: a vast rightwing conspiracy of stupid
Glenn Greenwald
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 30 August 2012 11.23 EDT

....
The election process is ....what inculcates many Americans to believe that they enjoy vibrant political debate and stark democratic choice, even as so many of the policies that are most consequential and destructive for their lives – the "war on drugs", the supremacy of the covert national security and surveillance states, vast inequalities in the justice system, crony capitalism that rapidly bolsters the oligarchy that owns the political process – are steadfastly ignored because both parties on those matters have exactly the same position and serve the same interests. (Watch how often Obama supporters will defend their leader from conservative attacks by proudly arguing that Obama's policies are actually the same as that which conservatives advocate: he's severely cut government spending even more than Bush and Reagan! Wall Street and corporate profits are at an all-time high! He's killed and killed and killed some more! His healthcare plan comes from a rightwing thinktank! Nobody has been more faithful to Israel than Obama! He's severely harmed Iran with sanctions and isolation! etc.)

It's where the candidates pretend to believe in a whole litany of base-pleasing and populist policies that enable their loyalists to claim there are vast differences between them, even though such campaign pronouncements have virtually no predictive value in determining what they will do in office – as the New York Times's Peter Baker, writing about foreign policy campaign platforms, put it today with great understatement: "the relationship between what presidential candidates say on the campaign trail and what they do once elected can be tenuous."

It's where the handful of important issues on which there are genuinely sharp and clear differences – social issues, reproductive rights, jurisprudence philosophy, a few social program and tax policies – are endlessly exploited to heighten cultural divisions and, more importantly, to obscure the similarities on everything else.

The election year process could and should be a meaningful opportunity for real political debate: the one time every four years when the majority of the population that is too busy or uninterested to pay much attention becomes engaged and thus informed. Instead, the process is the ultimate deceit. And the ultimate distraction.



Also, a link to an outstanding post by Zorra about why holding feet to the fire is so important...*especially* now: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=140005


I agree let's hold it til after the election! gopiscrap Sep 2012 #1
Do you really think anyone who hasn't already made up their minds reads DU? leveymg Sep 2012 #2
Lots of people who haven't made up their minds read DU. MineralMan Sep 2012 #6
I know that Google picks up threads here. leveymg Sep 2012 #12
Of course people can write what they want here, MineralMan Sep 2012 #13
"I know it when I see it" leveymg Sep 2012 #14
Our issue is voter turnout fried eggs Sep 2012 #39
And who would the left vote for? Pab Sungenis Sep 2012 #44
Q1: "Our issue" . . . Who is we? leveymg Sep 2012 #67
I find it strange that these threads come up. Not criticising their roguevalley Sep 2012 #65
I'm game for that, but there will be a few whiners who won't bluestateguy Sep 2012 #3
Perhaps you could give activists a specific time frame during which they are allowed to speak. Luminous Animal Sep 2012 #26
OK bluestateguy Sep 2012 #29
Unbelievable. You are actually advising anti-war, and social & economic activists Luminous Animal Sep 2012 #32
I'm just kidding bluestateguy Sep 2012 #46
The things we "bad-mouth" (your words, not mine) Obama for Pab Sungenis Sep 2012 #48
Bingo: give them a reason to turn out on election day and cast their ballot. Vincardog Sep 2012 #111
Activism is as activism does. mzmolly Sep 2012 #58
! AtomicKitten Sep 2012 #102
I couldn't agree more, and I've kept hoping against hope that Skinner would as well. Tarheel_Dem Sep 2012 #4
where you been, its been like this for awhile quinnox Sep 2012 #5
Sorry, if being here requires mindless, blind loyalty regardless Lionessa Sep 2012 #7
Enjoy the Koch bRothers presidency. n/t progressivebydesign Sep 2012 #10
Actually if I behave in the manner suggested in this OP, I would be behaving Lionessa Sep 2012 #76
EXACTLY! Puglover Sep 2012 #103
You could easily swap out 'Assange' for 'Obama' in your post. AtomicKitten Sep 2012 #16
Is there a TOS that require DUers to support Assange on this board? Luminous Animal Sep 2012 #28
Why should there be? There isn't one here that's enforced for Obama. AtomicKitten Sep 2012 #30
No but then the supporters will call one a republican, etc. for even questioning treestar Sep 2012 #113
Absolutely correct, though I'm not sure what that has to do with this topic Lionessa Sep 2012 #74
it's not like you ever praise him for anything so it really doesn't matter. WI_DEM Sep 2012 #19
This is not true, though rare, I do give him credit when it's due, Lionessa Sep 2012 #72
Post removed Post removed Sep 2012 #20
Agree with Lionessa! liberallibral Sep 2012 #33
Sadly there are some purists that think their own opinions are more important than that.. progressivebydesign Sep 2012 #8
Anyone with a brain and a heart knows that it's time to unite behind Obama flamingdem Sep 2012 #9
The late great Doris "Granny D" Haddock was spot-on DinahMoeHum Sep 2012 #11
Yes Richard D Sep 2012 #15
I'm in CA, he has a 23 point lead. My one vote will not swing that. Furthermore; Sirveri Sep 2012 #91
yeah but al gore started it PatrynXX Sep 2012 #17
No. emilyg Sep 2012 #18
I'm stunned you would say that. AtomicKitten Sep 2012 #21
My party is more emilyg Sep 2012 #71
well that's clearly not true AtomicKitten Sep 2012 #85
I strongly felt Clinton emilyg Sep 2012 #95
So you no-voted the ACTUAL candidate in 2008? You contradict yourself. CakeGrrl Sep 2012 #92
I felt Clinton would emilyg Sep 2012 #94
Wow... SidDithers Sep 2012 #88
yep AtomicKitten Sep 2012 #90
So you're OK with "forcible rape" Ryan fried eggs Sep 2012 #40
I have NUMEROUS issues with Obama. But I've called a truce until the first Wed. in Nov. MotherPetrie Sep 2012 #22
+ AtomicKitten Sep 2012 #116
It is the responsibility of the people in a democracy to hold public servants accountable. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2012 #23
Of course, but most of the criticism on DU on GOP trial baloons IMHO...they're mostly half ass'd uponit7771 Sep 2012 #25
We should stop ALL the unfair lying ass'd half truth criticism way before election. There are some.. uponit7771 Sep 2012 #24
sorry i'm not seeing much ibegurpard Sep 2012 #27
Herding Kindergartners ? Trajan Sep 2012 #31
Hahaha!!! liberallibral Sep 2012 #34
So undecided voters click through from a Google link and find out ... dawg Sep 2012 #35
It's not being phony to promote the best we can get marlakay Sep 2012 #36
Which election? 2016? n/t Fumesucker Sep 2012 #37
Newp. Some people think it's never a good time to criticize. Prism Sep 2012 #38
Exactly. We've been told to keep silent since before he was even sworn in. girl gone mad Sep 2012 #68
For me, Obama's two Supreme Court appointments have already been a disaster. Pab Sungenis Sep 2012 #41
Links? edhopper Sep 2012 #45
New York Court Watcher has some excellent links and graphs on this. Pab Sungenis Sep 2012 #47
Given the variety of cases edhopper Sep 2012 #56
They're not the same as Roberts and Alito Pab Sungenis Sep 2012 #60
So you admit they are not as bad as Roberts and Alito! DrewFlorida Sep 2012 #97
Here we go again. More fear mongering and straw-manning. Pab Sungenis Sep 2012 #106
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2012 #101
In just a few days he will be the official Democratic Nominee for 2012 LynneSin Sep 2012 #42
The title of every post between now and November should be "I like Obama". Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #43
The next administration will possibly have 3 retiring Supreme Court Justices. DrewFlorida Sep 2012 #49
Can you promise me Obama is going to appoint three liberals? Or even one liberal? Pab Sungenis Sep 2012 #52
Would you rather have another Elena Keagan or another Anthony Kennedy? DrewFlorida Sep 2012 #96
Really? Anthony Kennedy. Pab Sungenis Sep 2012 #107
Obama will be fine. He's already handing Mittwit his ass. n/t backscatter712 Sep 2012 #50
Absolutely. There was so much infighting during the Pug convention... Frustratedlady Sep 2012 #51
I alerted on this post yesterday and the jury let it stand - TBF Sep 2012 #53
Its a fine line LiberalLovinLug Sep 2012 #54
Sadly, whenever we stop the criticism Pab Sungenis Sep 2012 #62
I didn't know this was a problem Capt. Obvious Sep 2012 #55
Is this Underground about Obama or Democracy? Vox Moi Sep 2012 #57
criticisms have been on hold for a while now Enrique Sep 2012 #59
Agreed DainBramaged Sep 2012 #61
> In a choice between authoritarianism and democratic participation, I choose democratic participation. AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2012 #63
I don't think so... Exen Trik Sep 2012 #64
Because we want people to get excited and talk and learn about things and vote intelligently this JDPriestly Sep 2012 #66
Americans speak. FredStembottom Sep 2012 #69
Your speech at DU is corralled all the time... SidDithers Sep 2012 #89
No. intheflow Sep 2012 #70
Yep. I hold my emilyg Sep 2012 #73
((cough)) AtomicKitten Sep 2012 #87
+1 Lucinda Sep 2012 #75
Same here deutsey Sep 2012 #80
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, Sherman A1 Sep 2012 #77
Perfect quote deutsey Sep 2012 #81
Thanks Sherman A1 Sep 2012 #98
That one holds a lot more weight with me than the Ari Fleisher-esque "Watch what you say". bullwinkle428 Sep 2012 #104
Indeed Sherman A1 Sep 2012 #112
In the world generally treestar Sep 2012 #114
Then, in your opinion Sherman A1 Sep 2012 #117
Um, no. Le Taz Hot Sep 2012 #78
No Marrah_G Sep 2012 #79
Taking away criticism is taking away democracy. Alduin Sep 2012 #82
You know what? To hell with these admonitions that DU become just like the MSM. woo me with science Sep 2012 #83
Eh, not necessary. DU doesn't drive the narrative as much as it pretends. joshcryer Sep 2012 #84
There are DUers who don't want Obama to win... SidDithers Sep 2012 #86
Even scarier than ever given the alternative. CakeGrrl Sep 2012 #93
Sure thing bub, you let me know when it's OK to speak the truth again OK??? just1voice Sep 2012 #99
when is the good time? since i saw all kinds of threads after the election telling people how HiPointDem Sep 2012 #100
No bigwillq Sep 2012 #105
Who should we submit our post to.. 99Forever Sep 2012 #108
Sorry _ed_ Sep 2012 #109
Now is the time to pressure him to move LEFT. After the election we have less leverage. If he Vincardog Sep 2012 #110
what are you 12? I think the President is a big boy and handle criticism just fine fascisthunter Sep 2012 #115
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