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defacto7

(13,485 posts)

174. It's a terrible thing when someone feels it's their only option.

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 03:52 PM

Jun 2019

The question is that of choice. This wasn't a lone decision, there were professionals and family involved who know details you cannot know, yet you would not allow the choice anyway as an arbitrary uninvolved concerned citizen. Do you think that human rights should be decided by the state? By an arbitrary age? Is 17 years 11months 29 days too early to have full human rights? Should all people below the age of 18 be forced to endure unbearable pain and wouldn't that be a form of child abuse? Why does the clock matter?
It's about human rights and choice, not whether you or I agree with another person's decision or not.

To make absolute laws governing personal life decisions is cowardly. It relieves us from the resposibility to do whatever we can to elevate pain and suffering so personal decisions can be made in favor of life while preserving freedom.

I don't think you or I or society should have the right to decide what another person does with their life or their body... we are not them.

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17 year old dutch girl, victim of rape, dies by legal euthanasia [View all] ansible Jun 2019 OP

That is terrible. There are new meds all the time. She could have been applegrove Jun 2019 #1

OOHHHHHHHHHH! hlthe2b Jun 2019 #2

That's the saddest thing Mr.Bill Jun 2019 #3

She was probably painfully alone. lpbk2713 Jun 2019 #4

too fucking sad and horrible JI7 Jun 2019 #5

More details: dalton99a Jun 2019 #6

What a compounded tragedy UpInArms Jun 2019 #16

Thanks for the link. Did answer my question about psychological and medical interventions. nt emmaverybo Jun 2019 #52

This message was self-deleted by its author Ponietz Jun 2019 #179

I do not agree with this. boston bean Jun 2019 #7

I don't either. LisaL Jun 2019 #9

For those in the US BigMin28 Jun 2019 #113

Right and there will never be options if the solution is to kill them...cheaper I guess... Demsrule86 Jun 2019 #165

Medicine doesn't work for everyone with depression or bipolar disorder, unfortunately. Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #118

I can see the argument that she's too young. Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #15

I believe a person should be able to die with no physical pain if they are going to die. boston bean Jun 2019 #22

I agree 100% that they should be helped. Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #23

A teenager should not be helped to commit suicide. boston bean Jun 2019 #25

That's my issue too. Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #26

You have little understanding of the agony that mental illness can inflict Politicub Jun 2019 #126

We should not be helping people who are depressed to commit suicide. boston bean Jun 2019 #133

bipolar is NOT a terminal illness Mosby Jun 2019 #136

I stand corrected. It's a chronic illness. Politicub Jun 2019 #137

We do know that the prefrontal cortex EllieBC Jun 2019 #139

Because the people who argue that point Dem2theMax Jun 2019 #38

Exactly. Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #40

AMEN! Dem2theMax Jun 2019 #42

Not all people ecstatic Jun 2019 #104

At seventeen, her brain is not fully developed. And she has not had a chance to emotionally emmaverybo Jun 2019 #51

We don't usually kill people because they have physical pain. LisaL Jun 2019 #93

I'm for Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #94

Her parents did not interfere with her decision to die. SeaDoo Jun 2019 #150

What!!! Ah no. Depressed people who want to commit suicide should not be helped along by anyone. boston bean Jun 2019 #153

Ah, damn. brer cat Jun 2019 #8

This is so heartbreaking. smirkymonkey Jun 2019 #10

That's unconscionable for any medical judgement. procon Jun 2019 #11

She had basically been killing herself for over a year. BigmanPigman Jun 2019 #12

Because with the proper treatment she had a good chance of recovery. Most cases when people lunamagica Jun 2019 #19

Many experienced doctors obviously did not agree BigmanPigman Jun 2019 #20

It makes me sick to my stomach a teenager suffering depression was helped to end her life. boston bean Jun 2019 #27

What do you think was improper about the treatment she'd received? nt. Mariana Jun 2019 #58

She was very young. Her brain wasn't fully developed yet. There are several people on this thread lunamagica Jun 2019 #59

So you are advocating for people to kill themselves if they are in bad (NOT TERMINAL) mental pain or UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #67

Mental pain and suffering can be as bad, if not worse, than BigmanPigman Jun 2019 #84

Nobody is saying that mental pain can't be severe or dibilatating. But if it is not TERMINAL...that UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #92

so suffering must be endured at all costs stopdiggin Jun 2019 #134

Most suicides are impulsive, hers was certainly anything but that. BigmanPigman Jun 2019 #142

This is outrageous tymorial Jun 2019 #13

Agreed!!! LovingA2andMI Jun 2019 #55

In BC, doctor's aren't allowed to tell parents anything if kid is "capable" and says not to OnlinePoker Jun 2019 #128

In our town we had a 14 year old die last year because BC won't let parents commit EllieBC Jun 2019 #140

Not similar. Parents knew since she died at home because she refused LisaL Jun 2019 #157

At the time of my response, it was still being report she had died by assisted suicide. OnlinePoker Jun 2019 #162

And so are some of these replies. nt UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #73

Yeah it's really quite disturbing tymorial Jun 2019 #90

So, so, sad. Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #14

It's a good thing Netherlands stays out of wars Beringia Jun 2019 #17

The Dutch were in Afghanistan until 2010. Codeine Jun 2019 #18

+1 Chin music Jun 2019 #35

They also have a good social safety net treestar Jun 2019 #99

I completely support her choice. The_jackalope Jun 2019 #21

Your wife was so blessed to have such a compassionate man in her life. Dem2theMax Jun 2019 #39

The price of such compassion can be excruciatingly high The_jackalope Jun 2019 #48

I feel for you more than you can possibly know. Dem2theMax Jun 2019 #56

Thank you for sharing your difficult story with grace and an open heart. WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #46

But would you feel the same if it were your 17yr old daughter ? Your wife was terminal UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #64

Yes I would. The_jackalope Jun 2019 #70

I do not...and find it horrifying ...one of the reasons I am completely against this...she was a Demsrule86 Jun 2019 #87

A 17-year-old Committing Suicide RobinA Jun 2019 #127

targic weissmam Jun 2019 #24

I wish people could understand that treatment is not a catch all cure all. defacto7 Jun 2019 #32

It has never worked for me, but I still think it was wrong. Crunchy Frog Jun 2019 #43

It never worked for me either. Your reply is understandable and thoughtful. defacto7 Jun 2019 #98

So we should allow 17 year olds to kill themselves? Horrifying. Demsrule86 Jun 2019 #88

Oversimplification is not a reasonable remark to a complex issue. defacto7 Jun 2019 #97

I dont find this issue complex. I am against this period.horrifying. Demsrule86 Jun 2019 #164

It's a terrible thing when someone feels it's their only option. defacto7 Jun 2019 #174

I believe in choice whatever the circumstances. defacto7 Jun 2019 #28

So if your teen aged daughter or niece chose to kill themselves you would support that then. nt UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #68

If I had fulfilled my responsibilities as a parent, yes, and her human rights would remain intact. defacto7 Jun 2019 #96

I'm so sorry she had to go through this, and hope the men responsible paid. But, Euthanasia is Hoyt Jun 2019 #29

This happened just a few years ago. 3 YEARS AGO and yes suicide is the answer. UNREAL. nt UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #69

I think those of you who are criticizing her choice may PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2019 #30

+1 The_jackalope Jun 2019 #34

Right RobinA Jun 2019 #129

It's easy to be judgemental ZeroSomeBrains Jun 2019 #36

There are people who have survived more treestar Jun 2019 #100

Right. Just like telling a woman, PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2019 #109

But then treating pain is part of recovery treestar Jun 2019 #111

Have you been in her shoes? Were you sexually abused at age 11, PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2019 #155

I have not , no treestar Jun 2019 #161

Exactly. LisaL Jun 2019 #171

Heartbreaking MustLoveBeagles Jun 2019 #31

the teen underwent electroshock therapy. IcyPeas Jun 2019 #33

That explains a lot Cetacea Jun 2019 #41

That's what happened to Earnest Hemingway. Crunchy Frog Jun 2019 #45

One of the side effects can be depression, ironically. For Hemingway, memory loss was very emmaverybo Jun 2019 #53

Some people seem to think she just walked in Mariana Jun 2019 #57

Well the rape happened at 14 and she was 17 ...so yeah 3 years I guess is enough time for any UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #76

It seems like kind of a discriminatory attitude towards people with depression. Crunchy Frog Jun 2019 #83

Yes. If it had been cancer it would be have tragic treestar Jun 2019 #101

It's hard to know what to say. calimary Jun 2019 #37

Horrible! Catherine Vincent Jun 2019 #44

'Ik hou van je vogeltje. Je bent nu vrij.' Chin music Jun 2019 #47

Vrijheid is het kostbaarste geschenk The_jackalope Jun 2019 #49

+1z Chin music Jun 2019 #50

My heart breaks for this girl. smirkymonkey Jun 2019 #54

Not okay with this. Drahthaardogs Jun 2019 #60

While I am saddend at this young womans life ending decision, it was her decision. trc Jun 2019 #61

Amen! nt The_jackalope Jun 2019 #63

She committed suicide at 17 and you think that is a good solution...yeah OK. nt UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #65

I did not say it was a good solution. I said it was her choice. trc Jun 2019 #71

Oh yes because 17 year old children know what is best. OMG. nt UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #72

At what age could she have made this decision in accordance with your standards? trc Jun 2019 #74

So you are pro choice suicide....got it. nt UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #77

I am indeed for individual freedom of choice. trc Jun 2019 #78

Well since you say I'm dismissive then I'll go along with it and do just that. UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #81

Teenagers do make that choice and follow through treestar Jun 2019 #106

Well, it's beyond a shadow of a doubt defacto7 Jun 2019 #102

Teenagers make a lot of bad choices treestar Jun 2019 #105

exactly, going on about her choice at that age treestar Jun 2019 #103

This is profoundly sad shanti Jun 2019 #62

She said she wrote her book to help other people. This is the final lesson? This should not be UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #66

Each of us is terminal. WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #75

careful you are channeling Barr treestar Jun 2019 #107

Ha! It's true though. We all have different ideas on how to spend that time, of course. WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #108

Very sad situation but Meowmee Jun 2019 #79

Prime non nocere tirebiter Jun 2019 #80

I'll probably get all kinds of crap for this, but ... mr_lebowski Jun 2019 #82

"Sexually assaulted at...age 11...again a year later...before being raped by two men...at age 14." VOX Jun 2019 #85

You've presented both sides well, thanks for this lucid analysis mr_lebowski Jun 2019 #135

It's a tough one. Both perspectives have validity. VOX Jun 2019 #149

And to me, the essential point is that PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2019 #175

Hey y'all, she did not die from euthanasia. WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #86

It's almost like people just reacted to headline without actually reading the story. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2019 #115

Did you read the story? Because the information I posted wasn't in the story. WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #116

They must have changed it the story, then. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2019 #122

I see they changed the link, but the OP hasn't changed. Got it! WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #123

Yup, the RW lies being told about this girl and her death is appalling obamanut2012 Jun 2019 #148

this story is not accurate. Kurt V. Jun 2019 #89

It's not entirely wrong either fescuerescue Jun 2019 #110

You're saying they should have force-fed her? (nt) muriel_volestrangler Jun 2019 #117

I'm not in position to prescribe treatment fescuerescue Jun 2019 #119

You don't think palliative care while she died was "appropriate medical practice" muriel_volestrangler Jun 2019 #124

There are ways to treat malnutrician fescuerescue Jun 2019 #125

"The family had tried many kinds of psychiatric treatment ..." (see reply #120) muriel_volestrangler Jun 2019 #131

Not a huge difference treestar Jun 2019 #112

Euthanasia by malnutrician fescuerescue Jun 2019 #121

It's sad no matter what. the point is this story spead very fast bc reputable news made a mistake Kurt V. Jun 2019 #143

If it were true, from the earliest threads, there treestar Jun 2019 #146

New title: Noa Pothoven dies after struggles with sexual assault, depression, and anorexia n/t demmiblue Jun 2019 #91

Headline is false and ought to be edited. Kaleva Jun 2019 #95

Her body, her choice madville Jun 2019 #114

people that are mentally ill do not make good chioces Mosby Jun 2019 #130

Twitter thread on the misreporting of this, from a Politico EU reporter: muriel_volestrangler Jun 2019 #120

Well, I decry the inaccurate reporting here, for sure. I hate that crap ... BUT mr_lebowski Jun 2019 #132

Charge the child molestor who abused and raped her with murder. EllieBC Jun 2019 #138

She never reported it to the police from what has been reported. LisaL Jun 2019 #156

Thread should be taken down or substantially revised. maxsolomon Jun 2019 #141

This is a tough call for me. Captain Stern Jun 2019 #144

This is really sad and terrible. BigDemVoter Jun 2019 #145

She did NOT die from legal suicide -- clickbait, lying headlines about this obamanut2012 Jun 2019 #147

She exactly died from legal suicide. LisaL Jun 2019 #152

No, she did not die from legal suicide obamanut2012 Jun 2019 #166

What are you saying she died from then? LisaL Jun 2019 #169

No. What I am saying is that this case represents the slippery slope people against "assisted emmaverybo Jun 2019 #154

SHE DID NOT DIE FROM GOVT ASSISTED SUICIDE obamanut2012 Jun 2019 #167

I said I do not call death with dignity assisted suicide. Her case was not legally assisted emmaverybo Jun 2019 #172

You know what would have been 100% better? Baitball Blogger Jun 2019 #151

You have a big heart. BeckyDem Jun 2019 #159

Poor baby, so sad. RIP BeckyDem Jun 2019 #158

I'm sad she went through that pain. Lady Freedom Returns Jun 2019 #160

Seriously sloppy journalism and Euronews has corrected its headline. SMC22307 Jun 2019 #163

And people alllll through this thread still saying she was given obamanut2012 Jun 2019 #168

Because that what was reported in the article linked in the OP. LisaL Jun 2019 #170

People - everywhere - need to slow down with these types of headlines, SMC22307 Jun 2019 #176

This post needs revision. The media got it wrong. Facts developed in the story show emmaverybo Jun 2019 #173

You can read an update here. lapucelle Jun 2019 #177

Good. Thanks. Just a very sad story. Glad she was not alone. emmaverybo Jun 2019 #178