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Kaleva

(36,258 posts)

81. You could say the ame for the Obama Adminsitration

Reply to Blues Heron (Reply #61)

Fri May 31, 2019, 07:48 AM

May 2019

Which did nothing in regards to charging Bush with commission of any crime.

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Pelosi on impeachment: if the Senate exonerates Trump [View all] live love laugh May 2019 OP

Surely the criminals in the Senate will have an epiphany when they see the ironclad case dalton99a May 2019 #1

I highly doubt it. nt live love laugh May 2019 #2

Reading of the evidence and arguments by Chief Justice John Roberts might just create that epiphany. ancianita May 2019 #7

They want to stack the courts with conservatives. They do not care what trump did. wasupaloopa May 2019 #11

But the American public will see the Truth of Justice Roberts's SENATE trial and vote accordingly. ancianita May 2019 #14

Nearly half of the American people do not care what trump did or does. He was right when wasupaloopa May 2019 #15

Impeachment is the hill I'm willing to die on, and America should see that about House Democrats. ancianita May 2019 #17

The question is HOW to meet our duty successfully, Hortensis May 2019 #191

I'll feel miserable if we die on that hill,but it'll be a good miserable in that when we later die, ancianita May 2019 #197

Okay. Immortal we are. Hortensis May 2019 #206

Absolutely true.So we fight scared.Together. Their darkness will only recede by our beating it back. ancianita May 2019 #209

They might crow but everybody knows that it will be a totally partisan vote that "exonerates" him Proud Liberal Dem May 2019 #215

My hill too. Party should be about more than votes. notdarkyet May 2019 #192

Thank you! I welcome any and all company. Otherwise, why do we bother with "we're all in this ancianita May 2019 #199

I'm on that hill with you. Nevermypresident May 2019 #250

... ancianita May 2019 #260

More like 40%. n/t pnwmom May 2019 #30

Whre are you getting your half figures? The gop is about 30-35%, thats not half. Chin music May 2019 #120

RIGHT?? ancianita May 2019 #201

+1+1 Chin music May 2019 #202

I'm 64. SCVDem May 2019 #24

Same feelings here. MythosMaster May 2019 #66

See post #121. Chin music May 2019 #142

Come on Big Daddy. Don't let these people bring you down like that. Chin music May 2019 #121

Right there with you!! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #163

FUCK them do NOT go quietly AT ALL, we can do this together but not alone Eliot Rosewater May 2019 #184

I'm 64 too. Have no more tolerance for this. notdarkyet May 2019 #193

I'm 71 and I'm joining all the fighters on your behalf. Hang tough and keep the faith. ancianita May 2019 #204

You are correct JustAnotherGen May 2019 #48

Where are tapes when we need them? Slimy folks like trump et al know Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #73

No. But don't give McConnell the chance to acquit. Send it over on the last day of the session. lagomorph777 May 2019 #225

Hasn't swayed them so far? Brainfodder May 2019 #228

They have already seen it fescuerescue May 2019 #233

he has commited so many fucking crimes. hopefully the state of New York JI7 May 2019 #3

That's her point. New York probably won't be able to live love laugh May 2019 #5

I believe New York state is looking at STATE charges around money deals. dixiegrrrrl May 2019 #8

Why? empedocles May 2019 #52

"The State won't be pressing any charges until after he is no longer in the WH." former9thward May 2019 #107

Obviously not. LanternWaste May 2019 #178

The statute of limitations for Federal tax evasion would not be over dixiegrrrrl May 2019 #198

No, it is not possible he was "charged" and it was "settled quietly". former9thward May 2019 #232

Sorry but that argument makes no legal sense. Impeachment has nothing to do with crimimal charges. PoliticAverse May 2019 #10

The Senate trial will exhonerate him. tymorial May 2019 #57

They won't exonerate him. They will fall short of removing him but he will be badly weakened. hedda_foil May 2019 #170

Yeah, I think you're right about this. Tertullian May 2019 #229

A Senate trial isn't a criminal trial, so that wouldn't matter. pnwmom May 2019 #31

It's a good point malaise May 2019 #42

State Criminal charges have nothing to do with obstruction charges thru the Impeachment Process. Nevermypresident May 2019 #249

When in history larwdem May 2019 #4

When in history has any president broken more laws? live love laugh May 2019 #6

Never... start the impeachment process NOW!! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #165

Clinton plead to lying under oath after leaving IINM uponit7771 May 2019 #54

Reagan was clearly guilty in Iran-Contra at140 May 2019 #180

bologna the Senate acquitting him will not forbid criminal prosecuction when he is no longer standingtall May 2019 #9

What will impeachment get us? wasupaloopa May 2019 #12

What will not impeaching get us? standingtall May 2019 #13

I asked first wasupaloopa May 2019 #16

Respect, not impeaching Trump will hand the House back to the GOP Snake Plissken May 2019 #22

Bull Trumpocalypse May 2019 #28

Good luck with that. Snake Plissken May 2019 #32

Thanks Trumpocalypse May 2019 #33

Now you just need to start praying for the economy to tank so your 2008 scenario can play out. Snake Plissken May 2019 #35

Wow Trumpocalypse May 2019 #50

The economy was a key for Dumya and tricky dick's downfalls empedocles May 2019 #51

This is why impeachment is risky... Drunken Irishman May 2019 #155

Excellent point. I've never seen that mentioned in the impeachment debate. empedocles May 2019 #162

Or may it makes the Dems look smart and strategic Trumpocalypse May 2019 #29

Most Americans don't think that way at all. They see inaction after a 2-yr investigation as WEAK. ancianita May 2019 #208

Don't presume you know how others think You just know how you and the friends Trumpocalypse May 2019 #227

I don't have to presume. Americans voted forty new Democratic House seats last year. ancianita May 2019 #253

And most of those House wins were in moderate swing districts Trumpocalypse May 2019 #259

Voters that put them there show the "moderate" characterization is over. The polls that year show it ancianita May 2019 #261

Show a poll that proves your argument Trumpocalypse May 2019 #262

No polls on Democrats' being WEAK exist. There are articles on weak public support for impeachment. ancianita May 2019 #268

Thanks for admitting you don't have any proof Trumpocalypse May 2019 #270

I admit Pew's, Reuters, NBC/WSJ polls back my claim. "Most" is still unproven unless Gallup backs it ancianita Jun 2019 #276

No they don't Trumpocalypse Jun 2019 #277

Evidence isn't total lack of proof, it's just not enough to prove a majority attitude YET, but trend ancianita Jun 2019 #278

We'll see nt Trumpocalypse Jun 2019 #279

Why do you think Pelosi doesn't know what she's doing as far as timing is concerned? (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #93

Because I don't think she is infallible standingtall May 2019 #214

You're avoiding the question... again. ehrnst May 2019 #217

Not knowing what she is doing were your words not mine standingtall May 2019 #218

So you think that she's qualified and knows what she's doing then? Your posts indicate otherwise. ehrnst May 2019 #220

Did it ever occur to you that remark was directed at what the OP wrote? standingtall May 2019 #222

The OP is titled "Pelosi on impeachment: " ehrnst May 2019 #224

This is what the OP wrote standingtall May 2019 #231

You described the statement ascribed to her as "bologna" ehrnst May 2019 #235

No votes from the pro-impeachment base, and the loss of party membership. Pretty simple. ancianita May 2019 #207

You avoided the question. ehrnst May 2019 #219

I can have my opinion and my opinion can opinion can be right and it can be wrong too standingtall May 2019 #221

Yet another strawman... ehrnst May 2019 #223

You don't know what I thought she said or that I even cared standingtall May 2019 #236

You responded to the OP - you just said that. I don't have to 'read your mind' to know that.... ehrnst May 2019 #239

Again you are trying to read my mind standingtall May 2019 #241

More evasion via red herring. ehrnst May 2019 #243

This message was self-deleted by its author standingtall May 2019 #245

Three things: once proceedings began he couldn't pardon Roger Stone or anyone else pnwmom May 2019 #34

OP Worthy uponit7771 May 2019 #44

Another impeachment count... fine!! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #59

Been trying to tell people this... some just refuse to acknowledge what is so obvious. InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #166

The party of the impeached has never fared well in elections post impeachment process ... uponit7771 May 2019 #43

That election was pre-impeachment, not post whopis01 May 2019 #62

Does not matter, it didn't help Democrats one way or the other uponit7771 May 2019 #152

Votes! That simple. ancianita May 2019 #205

esp after it bombs in the senate.. then what do we have to threaten trump with? samnsara Jun 2019 #288

Until there is a link, we don't know for sure that's what she said. ehrnst May 2019 #88

No one cares what happens to ex-President Trump n/t leftstreet May 2019 #18

It IS tricky. madamesilverspurs May 2019 #19

If he gets acquitted he gets re-elected, is the problem (nt) Recursion May 2019 #20

Then we have a much bigger problem rufus dog May 2019 #23

BINGO!!! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #168

:) This whole thread's an argument against democracy, Hortensis May 2019 #64

That's a big leap, with very little evidence to back it up Downtown Hound May 2019 #186

So, your assumption is Chin music May 2019 #230

Clinton's numbers went up after his acquittal; Trump's would too Recursion Jun 2019 #271

Clinton created 22 million jobs. He was beloved by the world. And, he and VP Gore gave Chin music Jun 2019 #272

And Trump's economic numbers are almost as good Recursion Jun 2019 #273

If the numbers are correct. Those numbers don't pan out where I live. Chin music Jun 2019 #280

Post removed Post removed May 2019 #21

No stalling, foot dragging, or wimping out. Not enough VOTES to pass the resolution to start emmaverybo May 2019 #25

Heard this same argument in 07 Trumpocalypse May 2019 #27

Does anyone else feel SCVDem May 2019 #26

I don't know about a war, but I will lay out some dominoes that could fall in a chain that will lead Celerity May 2019 #38

No. bearsfootball516 May 2019 #139

I think that the Republicans' reaction gets worse and worse each time they lose power again. StevieM May 2019 #173

isn't he facing countless indictments in NYC? SleeplessinSoCal May 2019 #36

Yes, even if he's exonerated of all federal crimes that doesn't stop the state ones unless there's uponit7771 May 2019 #56

Plus, it isn't a criminal trial Bettie May 2019 #102

and the GOP is no longer concerned with precedent. SleeplessinSoCal May 2019 #190

There's that too Bettie May 2019 #194

There are plenty of crimes to charge Trump, especially at the state level. Start the proceedings. airmid May 2019 #37

+1, they can make the impeachment mandate very narrow they don't have to include the kitchen sink uponit7771 May 2019 #41

Here's the video for those who missed it! Rhiannon12866 May 2019 #39

thank you for posting that Celerity May 2019 #45

That's an excellent point, that jumped out at me too Rhiannon12866 May 2019 #53

Not in cases that aren't related to the impeachment. uponit7771 May 2019 #40

Not going to happen, but my ideal scenario is Trump being taken into custody no_hypocrisy May 2019 #46

It won't free him from NY charges down the road. sarabelle May 2019 #47

That's not true. W_HAMILTON May 2019 #49

The goalposts get moved, the bar gets raised BeyondGeography May 2019 #55

Sounds good to me! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #60

What "excuses?" (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #67

Not to act BeyondGeography May 2019 #68

Again... what excuses are being given? ehrnst May 2019 #72

👍🏾 live love laugh May 2019 #240

Yes, all I am asking for (and I think most are here) is open a simple enquiry, I do NOT want to Celerity May 2019 #118

+1 BeyondGeography May 2019 #123

And an enquiry really raises the chances he will come and testify in public, before the House Celerity May 2019 #129

We seem to be in a minority around DU. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #160

I'm totally with this. ancianita May 2019 #255

I'd allege that as well... if I too had no objective evidence to support it. LanternWaste May 2019 #183

My evidence is ironclad BeyondGeography May 2019 #187

I trust Pelosi's judgement. She's got the track record that makes me trust it. RelativelyJones May 2019 #58

except if you consider that she let Bush off the hook. Blues Heron May 2019 #61

So the ACA was worth nothing, and being chosen again and again and again ehrnst May 2019 #80

her track record on impeaching Bush speaks for itself Blues Heron May 2019 #128

You could say the ame for the Obama Adminsitration Kaleva May 2019 #81

I know. I never understood the deferrence given to Bush. Blues Heron May 2019 #127

It is not her judgement many of us are taking issue with. She said that a Senate acquittal Celerity May 2019 #70

When did Pelosi say that a Senate acquittal precludes DT from future legal prosecution? ehrnst May 2019 #83

She didn't say that. She said "there is a school of thought" in the Kimmel interview. RelativelyJones May 2019 #86

yes BUT she is basing her conclusion/rationale off that school of thought in her answer Celerity May 2019 #114

Not what I took away from it. ehrnst May 2019 #132

well, without opening an official enquiry (which is all I am asking for) we are never going to get Celerity May 2019 #135

I don't think that she was saying that it was an iron clad truism, etched in stone. ehrnst May 2019 #143

that is the entire subject of this OP thread we are in Celerity May 2019 #103

Not what she said... ehrnst May 2019 #125

I already addressed that in another comment. Celerity May 2019 #131

I just addressed that post. ehrnst May 2019 #136

I do not want impeachment now, but if we wait 5, 6 months or even until early or mid-2020 Celerity May 2019 #140

Like I said ehrnst May 2019 #146

here, both the video and then the NYT article, plus numerous commentators Celerity May 2019 #159

Is this where you heard that the base is "peeling off?" (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #161

like I said, there have been numerous people talking about the inherent risks of not doing enough Celerity May 2019 #164

I was specifically addressing your claim that "the base is peeling off," which is something that can ehrnst May 2019 #172

i would say not a single American has a track record for the current situation. Kurt V. May 2019 #134

She has a fantastic track record as a Speaker and legislator, which is what ehrnst May 2019 #174

no. but that's bc she's already the Speaker. this is so unique I'm not sure anyone inside of Kurt V. May 2019 #179

"Accessing" or Assessing? ehrnst May 2019 #182

Assessing. lol. agree there isn't anyone more qualified in a normal situation. all the house Kurt V. May 2019 #188

In order to think outside the box effectively, one must know the box one is trying to fix ehrnst May 2019 #189

lots of good points . as a straight white man, my straight white friends don't like it when i Kurt V. May 2019 #213

to get back to our main discussion, this is what i think the Speaker is missing : Kurt V. May 2019 #257

Not clear on what the Speaker is missing with this link.(nt) ehrnst May 2019 #267

i read trump has made 15 million off the taxpayer thru his propertys. she should pursue Kurt V. Jun 2019 #275

I don't know if that is criminal, and we have limited resources. ehrnst Jun 2019 #284

So do I. Irishxs May 2019 #203

I do too--she cannot and should not reveal their entire "hand". nt live love laugh May 2019 #251

Yeah, she's way overthinking this. It's rationalization. nt coti May 2019 #63

What makes your judgement on this better than hers? ehrnst May 2019 #76

I'm not compromised by power like she is. It's easy for me to be right. coti May 2019 #78

In what way is she "compromised by power?" ehrnst May 2019 #79

Yes, the pressures of responsibility and power can skew people's judgment coti May 2019 #97

So now you're saying she's 'frightened?" ehrnst May 2019 #100

Nothing? (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #89

"Compromised by power"? You've got to be kidding me. RelativelyJones May 2019 #92

No, she wasn't- in fact, some would say we won despite her. coti May 2019 #95

And who are those who would say that? Justice Democrats? Young Turks? RelativelyJones May 2019 #96

Candidates in swing districts who said they wouldn't support her for Speaker? BeyondGeography May 2019 #98

Why does that mean we won "in spite of her?" ehrnst May 2019 #105

You again? BeyondGeography May 2019 #112

Too much time on your hands as well, I see... ehrnst May 2019 #153

Who is the "some" other than you? ehrnst May 2019 #104

It's flat out Pelosi bashing RelativelyJones May 2019 #106

*clutches pearls*....Actually, no it isn't. coti May 2019 #111

When you accuse her of being "compromised" without evidence you are bashing. Have the guts to own it RelativelyJones May 2019 #116

I was ASKED what makes my judgment better than hers, and I told you. coti May 2019 #117

"Compromised" a strong accusation without a shred of support but your personal opinion. RelativelyJones May 2019 #119

It doesn't sound like you understand what I mean re being compromised by power. coti May 2019 #126

"Compromised" is what Trump likely was by the Russians and I find it insidious that you apply the RelativelyJones May 2019 #130

So... ehrnst May 2019 #147

It doesn't sound like you understand that you have been called out ehrnst May 2019 #151

Got it. You don't have any real evidence for calling her compromised. RelativelyJones May 2019 #122

Nope. Just insults for anyone who dares to point out the inconsistencies ehrnst May 2019 #148

So you don't think that she doesn't get ehrnst May 2019 #145

+1000 RelativelyJones May 2019 #149

Between 2 and 7.52 billion other people of the 7.53 billion on the planet coti May 2019 #108

All of them "say" that we won in 2018 "despite" Pelosi? ehrnst May 2019 #154

Yep mcar May 2019 #157

She raised gobs of money for those campaigns mcar May 2019 #156

But that just can't be!! She "takes the path of least resistance" ehrnst May 2019 #158

Makes me so angry, ehrnst mcar May 2019 #252

And she's SO concerned that he won't go to jail shanny May 2019 #65

"she doesn't want to use the only tools available to her to save American democracy?" ehrnst May 2019 #109

I agree with you. live love laugh May 2019 #242

senate exoneration has NOTHING to do with any charges later, ask Bill Clinton beachbum bob May 2019 #69

The OP doesn't provide a link, so we don't really know if that's a valid ehrnst May 2019 #90

Coming up with reasons after deciding on the path of least resistance nt coti May 2019 #71

When did Pelosi say that she is choosing "the path of least resistance?" (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #74

She didn't say that, I said that. Obviously. coti May 2019 #75

I would love to be able to read minds. ehrnst May 2019 #77

You could try just reading posts coti May 2019 #82

Let's unpack this. ehrnst May 2019 #85

Does Trump say "I am acting with corrupt intent" when he obstructs justice? coti May 2019 #94

So you rely on mind reading. ehrnst May 2019 #113

"You need to work on your critical thinking skills"? George II May 2019 #167

Somebody is very, very, very put out ehrnst May 2019 #175

ooh...ooh....tell me.. stillcool May 2019 #211

Fallacy of false alternative, "bases"[sic] instead of "basis", AND the fallacy of alleged certainty. lapucelle May 2019 #256

Small correction. Bases, in this context... TCJ70 Jun 2019 #281

Your point is well taken, so let me amend. lapucelle Jun 2019 #282

.... ehrnst Jun 2019 #287

heh RoadMan May 2019 #124

... ehrnst May 2019 #144

As long as you have your coffee at hand, might as well partake of some doughnuts: George II May 2019 #269

Pelosi knows what she is doing. She will open an impreachment inquiry when more Reps in RelativelyJones May 2019 #84

Yes, Pelosi sees the momentum building... it's just a matter of time now!! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #169

Can you post a link - because I think you misunderstood what she said. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #87

Post #196 has the quote. live love laugh May 2019 #246

and if we don't impeach...that will basically free him from further prosecution down the road. spanone May 2019 #91

Huh? Impeachment is a political process, I thought. ego_nation May 2019 #99

impeachment on a particular set of impeachable charges doesn't negated crimianl charges later OR beachbum bob May 2019 #110

Video: See about 7:09 or so CousinIT May 2019 #101

it is best to start it at around 6:40 to get the full context Celerity May 2019 #115

We also don't want pence to have a clear path to the presidency in 2020. dubyadiprecession May 2019 #133

The only ironclad case that will get the GOP Senate's attention is one where the base turns on them. Thomas Hurt May 2019 #137

As it is now, it's hard to imagine a jury that will convict trump. Add failure in Senate, Hoyt May 2019 #138

False, defeatist statement from Dems leader- now is the time for courage! Fiendish Thingy May 2019 #141

I think Pelosi will come through... momentum for impeachment is building, just a matter of time now. InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #171

She's been coming through for years, and continues to. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #177

they need to get dirt on McConnell bdamomma May 2019 #150

Even an ironclad case would not change @GOP minds-they will stick with bigot Trump. IMHO riversedge May 2019 #176

And you can only get that ironclad case now via Congress performing impeachment investigations! KPN May 2019 #181

So how do we determine when the time is right?? Mitch will whisper in Nancy's ear? honest.abe May 2019 #185

Nancy is slowly inching towards starting impeachment proceedings... InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #216

IANAL, but the Constitution explicitly authorizes prosecution even if impeached. Tactical Peek May 2019 #195

I am disappointed in these statements from Pelosi Blecht May 2019 #196

Impeachment is not a criminal proceeding and double jeopardy isn't applicable (n/t) Spider Jerusalem May 2019 #200

Huh? Proud Liberal Dem May 2019 #210

No it won't. Was she suggesting the Senate vote would be res judicata?? SunSeeker May 2019 #212

There is none. Snackshack May 2019 #234

I totally agree. But why do you think there will be a failure to impeach? SunSeeker May 2019 #247

Yes... Snackshack May 2019 #258

There's plenty of evidence. Lunabell May 2019 #226

i agree.. i want a paper trail..phone calls..emails..linking him to high crimes... samnsara May 2019 #237

This is 100% incorrect NewJeffCT May 2019 #238

Link? FiveGoodMen May 2019 #254

Here's one - Obama US attorney Joyce Vance NewJeffCT May 2019 #263

Here is Ross Garber, a leading expert on Impeachment NewJeffCT May 2019 #264

Ian Millhiser NewJeffCT May 2019 #265

another link NewJeffCT May 2019 #266

A thorough debunking BeyondGeography Jun 2019 #274

That doesn't seem like a true statement in the least. Gore1FL May 2019 #244

Um I'm pretty sure that impeachment is not Voltaire2 May 2019 #248

That's not quite what she said StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #283

Does what those dirty assholes in the Senate do REALLY carry any weight with anyone? BlueStater Jun 2019 #285

Her name should be Nancy Sinatra because she's gonna do it her way gldstwmn Jun 2019 #286

She didn't say that StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #289