General Discussion

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)

138. I'm an admirer of your courage.

Mon May 20, 2019, 08:31 PM

May 2019

Thank you for telling it as you see it. I may not always agree. I will always give you the respect you have earned. (Does anyone see my long fingers signaling "bring it on"?) Difference of opinions is available only on Democratic forums, imo, thank you)

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A modest request: Please do your research [View all] EffieBlack May 2019 OP

Thanks. Legal process (as well as concepts generally) frustrate many, elleng May 2019 #1

Actually, this thread makes the case for impeachment hearings. watoos May 2019 #30

Actually, as Nadler zentrum May 2019 #100

Interesting take StarfishSaver May 2019 #103

Legal simplicity is an oxymoron but NYMinute May 2019 #127

Right. But the Dems zentrum May 2019 #136

The Dems DO need to do more. WinstonSmith4740 May 2019 #131

Right On. zentrum May 2019 #137

Actually, Nadler beseeched Pelosi last night to start an impeachment inquiry. SunSeeker May 2019 #173

Not what he said to our faces zentrum May 2019 #184

Oversight hearings and impeachment investigation hearings are not the same thing. SunSeeker May 2019 #185

Not necessarily-this is from the judge's ruling in the accounting firm record case Gothmog May 2019 #179

The NBC news article in that tweet you cite shows it's time to start a formal impeachment inquiry. SunSeeker May 2019 #183

Thank you. There's a lot of Monday-morning quarterbacking going on The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #2

Lol! EffieBlack May 2019 #4

Oh you... sprinkleeninow May 2019 #9

What does impeach now have to do with this thread? watoos May 2019 #31

Yeah, I realize I put that 'in quotes'. Not the movement funded sprinkleeninow May 2019 #180

Thanks, Effie! StarfishSaver May 2019 #3

Good to have you back, Effie. sheshe2 May 2019 #5

Awww EffieBlack May 2019 #6

yep. sheshe2 May 2019 #7

That's some of the best advice I've read on this site in a very long time. defacto7 May 2019 #8

Thank you for this post, Effie. I wish I could give it a thousand recs. pnwmom May 2019 #10

I did!...Well...Kinda... SkyDaddy7 May 2019 #17

100+ True Blue American May 2019 #33

Thanks! SkyDaddy7 May 2019 #161

SkyDaddy7, thanks so much for sharing your story! It is inspiring pnwmom May 2019 #65

Thanks! SkyDaddy7 May 2019 #160

There are many roads to get to where we want to go. I am applegrove May 2019 #11

it's chickenhawks. it's fucking amazing how many 'democrats' and 'liberals' criticize certainot May 2019 #12

Thanks! emmaverybo May 2019 #13

I have been wondering the following but am not a lawyer so I'll take advantage of in2herbs May 2019 #14

I didn't know you were a lawyer, Effie. Control-Z May 2019 #15

Lawrence Tribe, arguably the best Constitutional lawyer in the country, agrees with you. SunSeeker May 2019 #18

Tribe is correct that impeachment hearings are considered judicial proceedings StarfishSaver May 2019 #23

Nice to see you are coming around, watoos May 2019 #32

You don't seem to have read my post StarfishSaver May 2019 #38

Amen! Nuggets May 2019 #54

The grand jury materials contain the evidence supporting the Mueller Report. SunSeeker May 2019 #84

You don't know what the grand jury materials contain. StarfishSaver May 2019 #86

Your posts do not indicate you know more than me. Please drop the arrogance and insults. SunSeeker May 2019 #144

You asked her for her legal bone fides and when she gives them to you, you accuse EffieBlack May 2019 #146

Effie, I gave StarfishSaver the legal arguments/counsel presented by Hillary and Tribe. SunSeeker May 2019 #149

Let it go, dear EffieBlack May 2019 #150

I'm not your "dear." nt SunSeeker May 2019 #151

Seems to me wryter2000 May 2019 #96

That's a huge concern StarfishSaver May 2019 #99

+1000. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #116

Thank you for taking the time to read what I wrote. SunSeeker May 2019 #82

Hillary Clinton said this: Nuggets May 2019 #55

:) Thanks for posting. That invaluable "research" thing... Hortensis May 2019 #60

Did you read Hillary's Op Ed? She called for formal impeachment investigation hearings. SunSeeker May 2019 #77

I literally posted what she said Nuggets May 2019 #79

No, Hillary nowhere says Pelosi was "right to wait." You made that up. SunSeeker May 2019 #81

I made it up now? Nuggets May 2019 #153

Yes. Saying Pelosi has the right to be cautious is NOT the same as saying Pelosi should wait. SunSeeker May 2019 #154

Saying Nuggets May 2019 #155

"Can you read? Maybe you're too tired to grasp her quote?" Why yes, Nugget. I can read. SunSeeker May 2019 #157

No. The "Watergate precedent" Hillary is referring to DID NOT start with a House resolution StarfishSaver May 2019 #158

I've done my research. You're citing it. SunSeeker May 2019 #165

She stated this in an interview with Rachel. Why is anyone contesting what you have repeated? emmaverybo May 2019 #143

Hillary did not say Pelosi should "wait." That claim is made up. SunSeeker May 2019 #152

You just don't understand. Nuggets May 2019 #164

You're citing a March 2017 article. Nadler now is urging Pelosi for an impeachment inquiry. SunSeeker May 2019 #166

Yep Nuggets May 2019 #167

I do understand. You're confusing impeachment with impeachment inquiry. SunSeeker May 2019 #168

Baloney Nuggets May 2019 #169

Hillary described the Watergate impeachment process under Doar. SunSeeker May 2019 #170

Below is a clear explanation of the process used during Watergate that's been posted before for you. Nuggets May 2019 #172

I've already read that StarfishSaver post elsewhere in this thread. SunSeeker May 2019 #175

I've already read it. Nuggets May 2019 #177

Hillary does not even mention Pelosi in her Op Ed, let alone say she "agrees with Pelosi." SunSeeker May 2019 #182

Hillary Clinton DIDN'T say anything of the kind. EffieBlack May 2019 #56

"Exhibit A of the point of my OP." Strikingly. Hortensis May 2019 #61

I have done my research. I posted my research weeks ago. SunSeeker May 2019 #80

This is sounding more like petty factional squabbling over how Hortensis May 2019 #88

I am not "squabbling" with anyone. I am stating the law and what our leaders actually said. SunSeeker May 2019 #89

Perhaps you're not. But I'm going going over Hortensis May 2019 #91

Yes, Hillary did call for impeachment investigation hearings. SunSeeker May 2019 #75

Anyone can sign up to DU and pretend to be anything they want. nt RandiFan1290 May 2019 #19

Are you suggesting Effie is NOT an attorney? n/t Ms. Toad May 2019 #51

Uncalled for. nt Codeine May 2019 #117

The house doesn't gain any powers under impeachment that they wouldn't have under uponit7771 May 2019 #20

That is not true. Read what Lawrence Tribe wrote. SunSeeker May 2019 #97

You can cut and paste this is often as you want, but if you actually read it, StarfishSaver May 2019 #102

The case law Tribe cites states clearly impeachment hearings are an exception. SunSeeker May 2019 #104

You may have read it. But you don't seem understand it. StarfishSaver May 2019 #106

An oversight hearing is not a hearing "preliminary to impeachment." SunSeeker May 2019 #119

As I said, you don't understand it. StarfishSaver May 2019 #121

I do understand it. You clearly have nothing to support your legal argument. SunSeeker May 2019 #124

No need to cite a case. We were discussing a Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure StarfishSaver May 2019 #125

If that's your background, then you should be able to cite me a case. SunSeeker May 2019 #126

There's no need to cite you a case. The Rule speaks for itself. StarfishSaver May 2019 #128

Ah, so you have nothing. Got it. nt SunSeeker May 2019 #139

You really should just let it go. EffieBlack May 2019 #140

Effie, this is important for our country. We must be able to discuss it on DU as progressives. SunSeeker May 2019 #145

It's a misconception that the House gains any "super powers" by opening an impeachment inquiry. StarfishSaver May 2019 #21

I certainly don't mind! EffieBlack May 2019 #27

You both are misleading, watoos May 2019 #35

Sorry, but you're wrong again StarfishSaver May 2019 #39

I'm not talking about Trump people ignoring subpoenas, watoos May 2019 #42

"Common sense to me" isn't law, practice or procedure. StarfishSaver May 2019 #45

Oh lordy Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #122

Thank heaven we have you and Starfishsaver wryter2000 May 2019 #98

You are not wrong! It's all a matter of passion and opinion. Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #120

+1,000 SkyDaddy7 May 2019 #16

As always, a thoughtful, reasoned voice Maeve May 2019 #22

Thank you, Effie wendyb-NC May 2019 #24

I'm so tired of the knee jerk "why don't Dems" mcar May 2019 #25

It's not so bad the first or even second time EffieBlack May 2019 #26

Can you guarantee that by following regular proceedures watoos May 2019 #36

No one can "guarantee" anything - that's not how this works - just as you can't guarantee StarfishSaver May 2019 #41

Actually, that is to be expected... reACTIONary May 2019 #148

Thank you Effie .... CatMor May 2019 #28

I agree True Blue American May 2019 #29

Thank you for making my point, watoos May 2019 #37

Trump's not stalling for time StarfishSaver May 2019 #44

You've got it right. He wants to be impeached so he can play the victim in 2020.. marylandblue May 2019 #53

Yes, Trump is stonewalling True Blue American May 2019 #47

As one who has the very bad habit at times paleotn May 2019 #34

I've been working on the mutual respect exchange and doing my best to not be snarky. Kurt V. May 2019 #40

meaningful and kindly stated. Thank you. Ninga May 2019 #43

Wouldn't it be loverly if people did that. MineralMan May 2019 #46

Not me, True Blue American May 2019 #48

I agree. Some people are willing to learn and will MineralMan May 2019 #49

This is the reason True Blue American May 2019 #52

It's the internet. Jumping to conclusions is many folks' only exercise... Wounded Bear May 2019 #50

Thank you. Jumping to unfounded conclusions & spreading misinformation... CaptainTruth May 2019 #57

What letter did Dems write that Nuggets May 2019 #58

Pelosi, Schiff and Nadler have been making political arguments against impeachment BeyondGeography May 2019 #59

What political arguments have they been making against impeachment? StarfishSaver May 2019 #62

Could you link to any sources where any of them pnwmom May 2019 #66

Is "too divisive," a legal argument? BeyondGeography May 2019 #67

All I've ever seen is that it isn't time YET. Please provide one link where any of them pnwmom May 2019 #70

This message was self-deleted by its author pnwmom May 2019 #71

I agree. nt Honeycombe8 May 2019 #63

I have become.. stillcool May 2019 #64

K&R discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2019 #68

K&R ismnotwasm May 2019 #69

KnR. Seconding your modest request. Hekate May 2019 #72

That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. I have heard other law professors explain it pdsimdars May 2019 #73

agreed Locrian May 2019 #83

Great post BeyondGeography May 2019 #85

dems are organized, thoughtful, caring etc Locrian May 2019 #111

What 'other law professors?' Can you provide links? ehrnst May 2019 #87

Exactly. That post is a prime example of the problem EffieBlack identified. onenote May 2019 #171

The OP didn't argue for/against impeachment (although she's made clear elsewhere where she stands) StarfishSaver May 2019 #92

Perhaps the OP needs to go straighten out the members of Congress who want impeachment. cwydro May 2019 #162

This is also one of my pet Peeves Gothmog May 2019 #74

My simplistic assessment... Caliman73 May 2019 #76

I am not a lawyer. But as a former Union representative, guillaumeb May 2019 #78

Some of us non-lawyers actually understand "process" because we've worked with it... Hekate May 2019 #105

Excellent points. guillaumeb May 2019 #108

You don't have to be a lawyer to know the process. Some of the most astute legal observers I know StarfishSaver May 2019 #163

Yes, but .... H2O Man May 2019 #90

listen and learn dawn5651 May 2019 #93

I didn't know you're an attorney. wryter2000 May 2019 #94

Effie is a law professor Gothmog May 2019 #178

Cool wryter2000 May 2019 #181

The point of your OP (learn before you write) is lost amidst a lot of people attacking you StarfishSaver May 2019 #95

Watching people get frog-marched out of the WH while handcuffed is kind of a dream... cynatnite May 2019 #101

Ignorance Used to Be an Embarrassment dlk May 2019 #107

True StarfishSaver May 2019 #112

American Anti-Intellectualism Has Become Epidemic dlk May 2019 #123

Agreed. It started with Reagan, if not before. TwilightZone May 2019 #132

Thank you cp May 2019 #109

A modest request Nuffer May 2019 #110

Thank you for your bonkers221 May 2019 #113

There are Some People At DU For The Sole Purpose of Starting Sh*t. Indykatie May 2019 #114

Thank you, Effie NastyRiffraff May 2019 #115

K&R betsuni May 2019 #118

It Doesn't Matter What The House Believes But What It Can Prove corbettkroehler May 2019 #129

K&R brer cat May 2019 #130

"We all have something to learn about something from someone else." mia May 2019 #133

Did you really write that in response to the OP. StarfishSaver May 2019 #134

Great post malaise May 2019 #135

I'm an admirer of your courage. saidsimplesimon May 2019 #138

Thank you! EffieBlack May 2019 #141

True, boots on the ground is saidsimplesimon May 2019 #142

What a great Idea. VA Gov. Northam would agree with you. bitterross May 2019 #147

Spam deleted by MIR Team Drew Christ May 2019 #156

I'm also coming to realize that some of this is intentional StarfishSaver May 2019 #159

I've been screamed at CDerekGo May 2019 #174

Great post, thanks BlueJac May 2019 #176