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ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
89. Democrats also have to prioritize, because there are limited resources. "Right" isn't always clear.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 03:37 PM
Apr 2019

What is "right" will be different to different people, depending on their individual priorities. You seem to think that it's always obvious, because you have very specific ideas on what is "right," so that must be the case for everyone, on any issue.

Do you vote to shut down the military base in your community knowing that doing so it will shutter many local businesses that have grown up around it?

Do you vote to build that much needed elementary school to ease overcrowding on historic park land that people use for recreation and hold very dear?

Can you tell everyone what the "right" thing to do when faced with those situations that aren't simple "right/wrong" choice as much as between "bad for some/bad for others"? Reality doesn't always present one with easy decisions, and sometimes people don't even perceive the actual options. What you dismiss as "perceived politics" are often what drives those decisions.

For instance, one could say that because alcohol is addictive, kills thousands every year via drunk driving and expensive medical conditions like liver failure, and destroys thousands of families, it's "wrong" to allow it. It is "right" to keep it out of people's hands.

But we know from experience that the choice isn't between "making it illegal" or "perpetuating the harm it does." We know that the best we can do is to mitigate the damage, keep it above ground and regulated, educate the public on the dangers, and provide avenues for recovery from addiction. "Doing what is right" is often very complicated, and any decision may have negative consequences.

There is a concept known as a "wicked problem" which defies "right" and "wrong" solutions. The concept that there is always a clear "right thing to do" doesn't fit into this kind of problem. Politicians deal with them all the time, even if it's not really clear to their constituents.

A wicked problem is a problem that is difficult or impossible to solve because of incomplete, contradictory, and changing requirements that are often difficult to recognize. The use of the term "wicked" here has come to denote resistance to resolution, rather than evil. Another definition is "a problem whose social complexity means that it has no determinable stopping point". Moreover, because of complex interdependencies, the effort to solve one aspect of a wicked problem may reveal or create other problems.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_problem

Among them are health care reform, poverty, systemic racism, the religious tension in the middle east, etc.

Emancipation was another example - when slaves were emancipated, Segregation and Jim Crow suppression replaced slavery because emancipation didn't solve the entrenched white supremacy. Emancipation is considered the "right" thing, however there were no real solutions or ideas on how to get white communities to accept free black people once they were free. There was no, "Slaves will be Emancipated and become members of society/ or they will remain Slaves" There were going to be ugly, horrific circumstances either way. The backlash against Emancipation by white supremacists was horrifying, and thousands of black citizens suffered torture and lynchings as a result.

Conviction of a POTUS with a GOP led Senate isn't just "unlikely" it's definitely not going to happen. What is driving the push for impeachment without a conviction indeed only serves to satiate a wish for vengance, understandable as it is, because it's not going to help Democrats or this country in any other way at all. There are more effective ways to use our time and energy that would be more productive to actually stopping his policies than political theatre (without hard evidence or bi-partisan support.)
Frustrating, with Mueller gone for new crimes Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #1
When did Pelosi take impeachment off the table? SlogginThroughIt Apr 2019 #4
Remember her statement Bettie Apr 2019 #8
And she is right SlogginThroughIt Apr 2019 #10
Ugh Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #33
When Pelosi said that, she anticipated that we would have the Mueller report in hand... Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #83
Let me ask you something... SlogginThroughIt Apr 2019 #84
You know what? Ligyron Apr 2019 #85
+1,000,000 Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author ehrnst Apr 2019 #17
That's what I was getting at. SlogginThroughIt Apr 2019 #19
Replied to the wrong post! ehrnst Apr 2019 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author ehrnst Apr 2019 #20
You mean "Until there is hard evidence of a crime and bi-partisan support?" ehrnst Apr 2019 #21
Impeachment will only be symbolic Dyedinthewoolliberal Apr 2019 #28
I agree .. symbolic ...right against wrong Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #34
I understand your point Dyedinthewoolliberal Apr 2019 #49
Not getting impeached is a victory to him. Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #55
Fight Fascists b/c they're Fascists suegeo Apr 2019 #58
I agree that we need to fight Dyedinthewoolliberal Apr 2019 #63
It's about right and wrong Sugarcoated Apr 2019 #65
And the right thing is what helps the most people now, and in the long run ehrnst Apr 2019 #68
Democrats should do the right thing no matter what Sugarcoated Apr 2019 #88
Democrats also have to prioritize, because there are limited resources. "Right" isn't always clear. ehrnst Apr 2019 #89
It's not complicated. Trump broke many laws and committed shocking abuses of power Sugarcoated Apr 2019 #90
Not really. We pick a fight that we KNOW he will win ehrnst Apr 2019 #69
The Mueller Report hasn't dropped in toto jmowreader Apr 2019 #71
Everything he is getting away with ScratchCat Apr 2019 #2
Really? The economy is pretty Good for most people? Farmer-Rick Apr 2019 #16
Yeh, really! ScratchCat Apr 2019 #18
Historically, you're correct. Eyeball_Kid Apr 2019 #22
Your eyeball sees all Farmer-Rick Apr 2019 #32
+1000 smirkymonkey Apr 2019 #59
If the Court decides to kill the ACA True Blue American Apr 2019 #60
They're not jiggling the numbers NewJeffCT Apr 2019 #74
IIRC the deficit was 234 billion in February alone (for example*) stopwastingmymoney Apr 2019 #91
He is getting away with stuff because he hates who the GOP base hates, so GOP Senators ehrnst Apr 2019 #24
so you agree with me now? that impeachment or any measure will Kurt V. Apr 2019 #40
When did we disagree? ehrnst Apr 2019 #57
his ability to ' get away with it and gop's ability to force compromise to get him and they off is certainot Apr 2019 #29
Strange then how businesses are closing around here all over the place. defacto7 Apr 2019 #31
It's time for the UN Soxfan58 Apr 2019 #3
Curious...why doesn't Congress appropriate funds Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #5
They did. Horse with no Name Apr 2019 #7
I knew that...thought there was more needed Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #36
When one doesn't understand the workings of funding and of congress and the constitution ehrnst Apr 2019 #47
Snark aside, the humanitarian crisis, in my view, Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #52
So, what's the process for appropriating more money? What is the timeline on that, and where ehrnst Apr 2019 #61
I don't think I have ever gotten a more rude and condescending post. Congrats ! Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #64
Can't answer? ehrnst Apr 2019 #67
Hang in there. Mean people suck. nt Atticus Apr 2019 #75
I find it funny when fescuerescue Apr 2019 #77
Thanks ! You made me laugh ! Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #86
Welcome to the club. Just don't give it any KPN Apr 2019 #80
Trying not to. 90% of the people, like you, are nice here. Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #87
Dotard would veto it treestar Apr 2019 #14
He wants funds for a wall. You don't seem to have much faith in Congressional Democrats ehrnst Apr 2019 #26
What? How'd you get that? Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #37
Your posts. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2019 #46
The republicans and white nationalists have made the border their personal plaything. Initech Apr 2019 #6
This is the traitor and this is the hill they plan to fight and die on if necessary. Texin Apr 2019 #9
For those believing the species is not doomed, read up on "Mass Extinctions"... Moostache Apr 2019 #56
I saw that too, but when Trump left, the border agents started asking questions.... SKKY Apr 2019 #11
he's not worth it NJCher Apr 2019 #12
Yep. He won't be removed because the Senate GOP won't vote for it, and he can say ehrnst Apr 2019 #27
I guess this country isn't worth it, either. Paladin Apr 2019 #30
Well stated !! +1 Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #38
two years is nuthin' NJCher Apr 2019 #72
He is testing treestar Apr 2019 #13
Who are you saying is "allowing" this? Not anyone who voted Democratic in 2016 and 2018... ehrnst Apr 2019 #15
100% disagree with this mentality of if we do this, he'll Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #41
Who is "doing nothing?" ehrnst Apr 2019 #45
I actually typed a response to this post earlier, but thought it was a little snarky, so I didn't Atticus Apr 2019 #79
The reality marieo1 Apr 2019 #25
Would rather live with one year of pence than Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #42
+1000. (nt) Paladin Apr 2019 #48
Thank you! shanti Apr 2019 #50
He seems very weak to me. Like if it all came Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #53
Good question. For me, the underlying fundamental answer is indirect. It is not so much about KPN Apr 2019 #39
Sadly, evidently forever unless he murders someone. Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #43
He already has multiple times -- indirectly at KPN Apr 2019 #44
Republicans will allow anything. If he raped somebody raccoon Apr 2019 #51
But Susan Collins would be concerned! FiveGoodMen Apr 2019 #73
WE have not been a democracy since inauguration. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2019 #54
Agreed. Cetacea Apr 2019 #76
the Legislature and the Justice Department.. stillcool Apr 2019 #62
What can be done? customerserviceguy Apr 2019 #66
I know this will sound like a really dumb question, but Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #70
If Hillary Clinton had won the election Mr.Bill Apr 2019 #78
Are they obeying those illegal orders? nt Honeycombe8 Apr 2019 #81
Apparently not. Several told their superiors what Trump had said to them as soon as he left Atticus Apr 2019 #82
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