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JHan

(10,173 posts)
38. Yes, understanding evolves over time. I never disputed that.
Thu Oct 18, 2018, 11:07 AM
Oct 2018

What I am asking is for us to examine how it evolved in this context.

And let's get this out of the way: I am not one of the "People who prefer to protect the power and legacy of someone they admire" rather than deal with the behavior. I've said repeatedly Bill Clinton's behavior was wrong. I can explain more why his behavior was terrible but the disagreement here pertains to Monica's own agency.

If you read the Vanity Fair piece carefully, you'll see that her strongest recollection of abuse occurred in the aftermath of the affair becoming public (I keep saying this) She doesn't dive into the period when the affair started. When everything became public was when she was turned into a punchline and a pariah. She has said her worst experiences of abuse was at the hands of Ken Starr and how they went after her and her family. And yes, Bill Clinton's defenders at times went too far.

However, this doesn't change the dynamics at the start of the relationship. I do not agree that a young woman cannot possibly pursue sex or consent to sex with someone who is more powerful than she is ( even in a work environment) - it's an absurd position. If Bill left Hillary for Monica would we even have such a conversation?

We're familiar with the ways the Patriarchy is problematic - systems of power generally are ( especially in a work environment)- and when there's strong-arming, force and manipulation we should call it out. But there's also lots of engagement with systems of power. Sometimes these games are of a sexual nature since sexuality is a powerful force. I have been attracted to people more powerful than myself ( and older ), I know the power of my own sexuality and I've flirted with the idea of using it to my advantage but I never indulged. I own that desire, I don't judge it --- and if some feminists want to claim that these desires aren't my own as if I'm a child, on that score they're on their own

Nail, meet hammer. Well said. nt Atticus Oct 2018 #1
I've noticed people who were not following the Monica mess in the 90s or those badhair77 Oct 2018 #2
I followed it carefully loyalsister Oct 2018 #7
But if you actually look into Broaddrick and Willey's claims there are some serious flaws with both Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2018 #8
Remarkable loyalsister Oct 2018 #9
Where did I ever attack Broaddrick on the grounds she didn't come forward sooner? Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2018 #10
"Serious flaws in her story" loyalsister Oct 2018 #18
People do these types of cases a great disservice by lumping them all together. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2018 #23
I'm talking about the responding MO. loyalsister Oct 2018 #31
You are way over-generalizing this Charlotte Little Oct 2018 #34
Women feeling more comfortable coming forward, (not just women either) is good.. JHan Oct 2018 #11
"Agency" loyalsister Oct 2018 #16
You're conflating the aftermath of the affair with the affair itself.. JHan Oct 2018 #17
Maybe give some thought to our previous interpretations as Monica Lewinsky has loyalsister Oct 2018 #19
I raised the difference in her recollections.. JHan Oct 2018 #21
Did you read the piece I posted? loyalsister Oct 2018 #28
I read that piece several times when it first came out. JHan Oct 2018 #30
We all review our histories loyalsister Oct 2018 #35
Yes, understanding evolves over time. I never disputed that. JHan Oct 2018 #38
I've read the piece you posted. lapucelle Oct 2018 #33
Same subject comes up at the end of EVERY damn election cycle since 2000. blm Oct 2018 #3
+1 oasis Oct 2018 #37
I'm bewildered by this because .. JHan Oct 2018 #4
I'm wondering that, too NewJeffCT Oct 2018 #5
Little remembered fact about Broaddrick. In 1999, she sued the White House and DOJ. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2018 #6
Seems like that's the most tangible difference; Ford wanted FBI investigation Brodrick recanted ... uponit7771 Oct 2018 #15
I believe Juanita --- Under Oath Juanita, that is Adenoid_Hynkel Oct 2018 #12
Bill Clinton was most assuredly a horndog FakeNoose Oct 2018 #20
I think it's plausible something happened with Paula Jones but I don't think it was non-consensual. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2018 #24
Even if Clinton actually raped her, we're still allowed to be disgusted with her hypocrisy. BlueStater Oct 2018 #13
K&R Scurrilous Oct 2018 #14
They ought to start impeachment proceedings Blue_Tires Oct 2018 #22
Even Ken Starr had to discard her after intense Hortensis Oct 2018 #25
Her twitter feed is disgusting. JHan Oct 2018 #26
Yes. Even disgusting, bad people can be raped, and Hortensis Oct 2018 #29
It's interesting how this story seems to pop up at opportune moments Docreed2003 Oct 2018 #27
If you slept with Bill willingly, you are not a victim. IluvPitties Oct 2018 #32
Hold her to the GOP standard: show us the evidence. Vinca Oct 2018 #36
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