We still have a very long way to go on convincing people that some sort of nation-wide healthcare is needed. Pelosi may be right about it not being the best plank to run on. I put on my nice face and tried to make logical arguments and not be a jerk.
One of my friends posted this meme going around on FB. My conversation with a person who disagrees is an example of what we are fighting. Basically, ignorance and selfishness.
- Meme -
I spent 36 years in the insurance business. So I know a thing or two about the subject. The one thing everyone needs to understand is that insurance is an exclusionary product - that is includes good risks that the insurance companies want, it EXcludes bad risks they do not want.
Because the exclusionary nature of insurance, health care is not, never has been, and never will be, a good candidate as insurance product. This is because everyone needs health care
Everyone - without exclusion.
So don't talk to me about socialism or capitalism or anything in between. We need to adopt a universal health care system because health care is universally needed - unlike what is provided by insurance.
It's really that simple.
--- end of meme --
++ Opponent ++
We don't need bigger government. Heck, by your logic government should run everything.
- My Response to Opponent -
I do not believe the original poster is suggesting the government run everything. There are, however, things that are too big for private companies to do effectively. Building the interstate highway system was too big for private companies. Going to the moon was too big for private companies.
We faced those challenges as a nation together. We can face the health care challenge as one.--
++ Opponent ++ Just in case you missed it
Kaiser can do it for $22 trillion less than the government can!!!!
- My Response to Opponent -
No, Kaiser cannot.
++ Opponent ++
i have the uber kaiser plan that costs a lot and very low caps on my out of pocket
Take that, multiply it by 330 million people... it costs 22 trillion less than the ewarrens plan
- My Response to Opponent -
So you LIKE to have caps on your coverage and paying out-of-pocket? I don't. Cancer treatment in our country can bankrupt you with caps on coverage and out-of-pocket costs. My boss, just had to take out a HELOC to pay for medical costs for a chronic illness his wife has. It took lots and lots of visits to specialists to diagnose and then treat. Each added a cost that wasn't covered because he hadn't met the family annual out-of-pocket.
It makes no sense to me that his family's home is now in jeopardy because his wife was ill through no fault of her own.
The US spends almost twice as much as other nations on its private-company, healthcare and gets worse outcomes. If you add up the Kaisers, the Blue Crosses, the Providences, etc. they cannot do for less. This is even worse when you consider that not everyone in the US has coverage.
https://www.pgpf.org/.../how-does-the-us-healthcare...
How Does the U.S. Healthcare System Compare to Other Countries?
pgpf.org
How Does the U.S. Healthcare System Compare to Other…
How Does the U.S. Healthcare System Compare to Other Countries?
++ Opponent ++
Of all things people want control over, they want control over my body by controlling my healthcare
- My Response to Opponent -
People ALREADY have control over your body because they control your healthcare. Can you change jobs and take your current plan with you? Your current doctors? Most people cannot. So, your boss has control over your body right now.
++ Opponent ++
you haven't seen my plan. It's insanely good
++ Opponent ++
last companies i switched between both had a Kaiser option... so yes, i did.
As for my boss having control I'd prefer someone i see every day over some bureaucrat far away. I can directly influence the guy or girl i work for by helping to improve the bottom line and argue for better benefits if needed.
- My Response to Opponent -
Some thoughts. You were lucky that you were able to change jobs and keep the same insurance company. I've never been that lucky. Reality is, if something happens and neither you nor the company for which you work is able to pay your premiums you are out of luck. You will have no coverage and when you find a new job it may or may not offer the Cadillac plan you now have. This can happen due to circumstances beyond your control. Maybe your company goes bankrupt, lays you off or gets bought by some far, far away bureaucrat who cuts the coverage. You are then out of luck.
Another thing about your arguments is they are all about this being a "me" problem only. As in you ONLY care about healthcare as it pertains to you and ONLY you. Whatever happens to "them" is of no concern. If there is one thing I'd really like us to get back from the "good old days" and "golden age," it is the ability to care about others and look beyond our own selfishness. Back when "WE Can Do It!" meant WE would do it. Not "I got mine and f-you."
Healthcare in this nation is not a "me" problem or a "them" problem. It is an "US" problem. You may not realize it but it affects the productivity of the economy as a whole. Which affects your wages and disposable income.
++ Opponent ++
i think us is better served when we harness self interests.
Anyways, it's been fun debating and you make good arguments. I gotta head out.
- My Response to Opponent -
So, in conclusion, it's okay to be a completely self-serving person and not care about anything else?
I guess you never got the point of the "First they came for..." poem.
You're also missing out on the lesson of thousands of years of evolution. If raw self-interests were the best option we'd have never developed into a species to the point where you and I could have an internet, and, this discussion. We'd still be killing one another for that one gazelle on the savanna we were both tracking.
