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Member since: Wed Oct 3, 2012, 09:48 PM
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They might, if used consistently. The thread title is also inacccurate.

Since someone's livelihood is being threatened, I'd say using misleading language to spread online rumors is not a good use of DU. If he said something the OP doesn't like, s/he should quote him or the article about him accurately.

Parts 1, 2, & 3 on Youtube

Part 1: World War II

Part 2: Roosevelt, Truman & Wallace

Part 3: The Bomb

You're probably thinking of John XXIII (23rd), "the good pope,"

who during WWII made efforts to help Jews escape the holocaust, and who as pope (Oct. 1958-Nov. 1963) took steps to improve relations between Catholics and Jews. From wiki:

One of the first acts of Pope John was to eliminate the description of the Jews as "perfidious" in the Good Friday liturgy. He also made a confession for the Church of the sin of anti-semitism through the centuries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_XXIII

Three months after his election in 1958, he announced plans to conven an Ecumenical Council, the first in 90 years, for the purpose of improving relations with other religions, and in Oct. 1962, he launched the storied Second Vatican Council for the purpose of modernizing the Church.

[center] [/center]
Mosaic image of Pope John XXIII – the Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls – Rome

John died on June 3, 1963, six months before JFK's assassination. Vatican II finished up in Dec. 1965, and made a lot of waves which are still crashing on the heads of refuseniks like Mel Gibson and his father who never let go the Latin liturgy. It did away with other practices too, like fasting on Fridays and guardian angels, and adjusted Catholic relations with the world, abandoning scary stuff like black burqua-like habits for nuns and replacing it with more humane, less parochial approaches. His eighth and final encyclical, Pacem in Terris, "Peace on Earth," published April 11, 1963, is dedicated to "establishing universal peace in truth, justice, charity, and liberty," translation here: http://saints.sqpn.com/pope-john-xxiii-pacem-in-terris-peace-on-earth-11-april-1963/

Among other accomplishments John kicked off his papacy with a Christmas mass in an Italian prison:

On 25 December 1958, he became the first pope since 1870 to make pastoral visits in his Diocese of Rome, when he visited children infected with polio at the Bambino Gesù Hospital and then visited Santo Spirito Hospital. The following day he visited Rome's Regina Coeli prison, where he told the inmates: "You could not come to me, so I came to you." These acts created a sensation. . . . http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/John_XXIII

Here's a good vid (short too, only 52 seconds!) on the 4-1/2 year reign of John XXIII, still beloved by many but probably hated by more:

The Vatican only owns its property in Rome

and its nuncios, and Vatican City is about as big as an average urban university. Catholic properties (parishes, hospitals, etc) are typically owned by their local bishop, and since the pope is the bishop of Rome, he only "owns" his Roman property and the Vatican embassies. Here's a discussion of the question posted on DU eight years ago:

happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Dec-26-05 08:35 PM
10. The General Rule is Catholic Property is owned by the Bishop/Diocese

This is based on the old Middle age Concept that the Property of a political/Religious unit is owned by the person in charge of that Political/Religious unit. In the Middle ages (Before modern concepts of land ownership appeared) the King was viewed as owning everything he had NOT sold to someone else (and this is still the theory on Land Titles in the US, you are the "Tenant" of the "King" who since July 4th, 1776 is now your state the land is in NOT the King of England). Wild Animals are owned by the "King" (Now the State) till taken as game EVEN IF ON PROPERTY OWNED BY A PRIVATE OWNER.

In the Middle ages this was Even more severe. If you were the Ruler of a an area you were also viewed as owning everything in that Kingdom or Dukedom or County etc. Bishops were viewed as having that same "power" except restricted to "Religious" property. Thus, unless there is clear evidence to the contrary, any property owned by the Catholic Church in a Diocese is "owned" by that Diocese's Bishop (and thus the Diocese).

You have exceptions, the house of the Papal Nuncio (The Ambassador from the Vatican) is "owned" by the Vatican not the Catholic Bishop of Washington. Other exemptions include Jesuits and Franciscan's (and other religious orders, including female religious orders) Monasteries, Convents, Schools, Retreats etc. are often owned by the Religious Society as opposed to the Diocese. You sometime have disputes when a Parish has its own funds, that the Diocese views as its own (Year to Year operating funds are rarely in dispute, but large endowments are often disputed especially when an old Church is closed i.e. what to do with that Parish's funds given the parish no longer exists).

My point here is a clear picture would take a lot of Research as to how various lands are held within a Diocese. If it is NOT clear otherwise the property belongs to the Diocese (and thus the Bishop).

Note the Pope is the "Bishop of Rome" NOT the "Bishop of the World" thus the only property the pope owns in in the Diocese of Rome EXCEPT where it is clear the papacy is the owner of the property instead of the local Bishop (Papal Nuncio and other Vatican missions are examples of this).

One note on the "Riches" of the Vatican, a lot of it are Art and Sculpture that any secular ruler of the 1500-1800s had to have to show he was a successful ruler. With expansion of Democracy such objects are no longer fashionable but the Vatican has more than most countries and have adopted a policy that other countries have adopted for such arts objects (i.e. put them in Museums so people can see them). The Vatican has several such Museums (Including one on "profane" art i.e. non-religious art objects) in Rome. These art objects are both valuable and in-valuable. I hate to say it the best solution to what to do with them is what the Vatican (and other European Governments with similar Art abjects obtains during the same time period) have done, put them in Museum instead of selling them to private collectors where most people will never see them.


The long and short of it is that the Vatican owns about as much real estate as a typical state university. Ironically enough, when I was there last October, Italy announced plans to repeal its tax exemptions on all religions properties including the Vatican.

This is in line with Benny's general slant.

He's theologically conservative, true, and opposed Liberation Theology and clergy participating in politics, but his political views are consistently anti-war and anti-exploitation. We don't often hear about them because of the other problems he deals with, also because he writes in Latin and speaks in German-accented Italian, and is shy about using English.

But I like Benny more than the last pope, even though John Paul II was considered more charismatic. JP2 also tended to support NATO-friendly military objectives in Poland and elsewhere and was friendly with Thatcher and Reagan. Benny seems more simpatico with Putin, though I don't think they're actual buds, in that he's an old school collectivist who preaches against usury, as above, i.e. against the accumulation of wealth at the expense of ordinary people. Of course, that's been the official position of the RCC since there's been an RCC.

Anyway here's an article from September describing an anti-war sermon he delivered in Lebanon:

Pope Benedict calls for Christians, Muslims to unite against war
September 16, 2012 | By Patrick J. McDonnell, Los Angeles Times

Pope Benedict XVI's Lebanon visit is embraced by religious factions and Hezbollah militants. He praises the courage of Syrians in the audience as fighting continues in that country.

BEIRUT — Pope Benedict XVI on Saturday called on Christians and Muslims to forge a common front against warfare, even as battles raged in neighboring Syria and the new U.N. peace envoy to that country conceded that the situation there was deteriorating.

"It is time for Muslims and Christians to come together so as to put an end to violence and war," Benedict, 85, told an enthusiastic youth gathering on the second day of his three-day visit to Lebanon.

The pontiff spoke directly to young Syrians who were in attendance, singling them out for praise. "I want to say how much I admire your courage," Benedict told them. His comments came a day after the pontiff condemned transferring arms to Syria as a "grave sin."


Still, the pope's presence in Lebanon was warmly embraced by all religious factions. Hezbollah, the Shiite Muslim militant group labeled a terrorist organization by the United States, lauded the papal visit as "extraordinary and historic."

The pope, calling himself a "pilgrim of peace," noted that the Middle East "seems to endure interminable birth pangs" but also "saw the birth of great religions and noble cultures."


"In Lebanon, Christianity and Islam have lived side by side for centuries," the pope told a gathering of dignitaries and religious leaders. "It is not uncommon to see the two religions within the same family. If this is possible within the same family, why should it not be possible at the level of the whole of society?"


hey don't knock it til you've tried it

Benny and friends on a recent visit, Oct. 21, 2012:

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