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Mc Mike

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Member since: Wed Nov 23, 2011, 05:50 PM
Number of posts: 6,225

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Thanks for trying to help.

Every issue in this back and forth between us is just another loose thread in the unravelled 'official story', to me. Clear that our opinions differ.

I'm not going to adopt your method of reply, (point by point cut and paste with response), because it will swamp the thread further with repetition and make it more difficult to load for other post-ers (I can't be the only one who gets werfault i.e. crashes from the attempt to load 'view all' on this monster of a thread.) I gave you seven loose threads in the official narrative, you responded with 9 paras, breaking the Hunt bircher issue in to 3 pieces. Point by point:

Ferrie's library card: your mcadams link says the issue comes from 2 different unreliable witnesses, Oswald's land-lady, and Bannister's private investigator Jack Martin (via a daisy chain of witnesses that include Ferrie's roommate and G. Wray Gill). Anyone who says anything that isn't the 'official story' is an unreliable witness to adherents of the WC such as yourself. But when they're manifestly unreliable and butress the official story, you can over-look their 'quirks', or just use the statements that jine with the W.C., and ignore the ones that contradict it. Your 'proof' link says that Ferrie did visit the land lady about his library card. Senseless for him to do this, if he hadn't lent it to Oswald. Your link is inadequate in explaining Ferrie's visit.

Oswald carried the card for the same reason the Watergate burglars carried no i.d. and had even their suit labels removed, but had address books with E. Howard Hunt's White House phone number in them. For the same reason the private contractors on the Contra re-supply network carried no i.d., but copious amounts of paperwork about their 'off-the-shelf' mission. The reason is they're doing things that have their ass hanging way out on the limb in legality terms, and they want some kind of paperwork anchor on them in case they fall. Oswald said to Ferrie 'O.K., I'll do what you tell me (interact with far-right gun runners and take a high-profile 'lefty' position). By the way, could you do me a favor and lend me your library card. I haven't been able to get one, I've been moving around too much, and I enjoy reading.' A simple request that Ferrie didn't refuse, which exposed him to problems later.

Ferrie and Jack Martin were both members of a far right fringe schismatic sect called both the 'Apostolic Orthodox Catholic Church' and the 'Old Roman Catholic Church'. The family of Arthur Bremer, the lone nut who helped put Nixon into office in '72, also belong to that sect. His sister, Gail Aiken, was also closely involved with preacher Oliver Owen, who injected himself into the Sirhan Sirhan case. And you do know who G. Wray Gill is, right, Zappa? Interesting that he's called G. Wray Gill in your link and in James Earl Ray's book 'Tennessee Waltz', but is called C. Wray Gill in Hinckle and Turner's 'Deadly Secrets'/'The Fish is Red' (missing from the book's index, to boot), while his name on the 544 Camp St. building directory (where Bannister-Martin-Ferrie-Oswald 'worked') is written as 'W. Ray Gill', in Stone's movie 'JFK'. I'll save you time explaining it all for me, by just typing 'w o o' in here, myself.

Paine's station wagon: your jfk online link 'proving' your point that the witnesses are crackpots identifies Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig as a 'crackpot' eyewitness. Captain Will Fritz questioned Oswald about the station wagon, based on Craig's eyewitness report. Later, Fritz denied having any interaction with Craig about Craig's eyewitness testimony. Unfortunately for Fritz, Chief Jesse Curry's book 'JFK Assassination File' published a photo (taken by the Dallas Times Herald) that showed Craig in Fritz's office during interrogation of Oswald. Your link says that Paine owned a Chevy, not a Nash Rambler. But Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers went to the Paine's house and confirmed they had a Nash Rambler. Everyone's a crackpot but Paine and Fritz, including the other 3 cops mentioned and the Times Herald, right? This sloppy lack of follow up on the Paines, and Oswald's route on 11/22 away from the job they got him at the TSBD, tends to put the lie to your 'following every lead' explanation, and once again, you find credible only those who say what you want to hear. More loose threads in the official story for me, more 'woo' for you.

Ruby's mob ties: your link dismissing Ruby's prolifically documented connections to organized crime contains this excerpt--

"Ruby was also very specific about precisely who was most actively pushing the theory of his involvement in a conspiracy:

[T]here is a certain organization in this area that has been indoctrinated that I am the one that was in the plot to assassinate our President. . . . The John Birch Society.(19)

Ruby was correct; the John Birch Society was indeed spreading propaganda implicating Ruby as part of a Jewish conspiracy. In fact, Ruby correctly named resigned US Army Major General Edwin Walker as one of the society's leaders in Dallas,(20) and it is quite telling that when Walker appeared before the Warren Commission, he insisted upon referring to Ruby by his birth name, Rubenstein.(21)

Ruby continued:

If certain people have the means and want to gain something by propagandizing something to their own use, they will make ways to present certain things that I do look guilty." (22) . . . If you don't take me back to Washington tonight to give me a chance to prove to the President that I am not guilty, then you will see the most tragic thing that will ever happen. And . . . I won't be around to be able to prove my innocence or guilt.(23). . . I am used as a scapegoat, and there is no greater weapon that you can use to create some falsehood about some of the Jewish faith, especially at the terrible heinous crime such as the killing of President Kennedy. . . . Now maybe something can be saved. It may not be too late, whatever happens, if our President, Lyndon Johnson, knew the truth from me. But if I am eliminated, there won't be any way of knowing. Right now, when I leave your presence now, I am the only one that can bring out the truth to our President, who believes in righteousness and justice. But he has been told, I am certain, that I was part of a plot to assassinate the President. . . .(24)"
(Excerpt ends)

It's funny that my post (#655) on this thread said the same thing, and caused you to award me the 'top woo of the thread'. But now you can use this link containing the same idea to somehow show me that Sparky Ruby has no mob ties. So you selectively pay attention to the parts you like, and ignore the parts that cast doubt on the 'official story' and its many loose ends. You rely on the statement that Ruby's family and people close to him said he had no organized crime connections. I remind you that Hoover himself wouldn't admit that organized crime even existed, while the mob series 'The Untouchables' was a hit on T.V., while Runyon's 'Guys and Dolls' was a Broadway hit. Mob leader Joe Colombo set up the Italian American Civil Rights League to accuse people of prejudice against Italians when they talked about organized crime. Yet you imagine a strangely different world, where mobsters and their family and associates admit they are involved with organized crime. Cartoonish thinking, which you put forth as level-headed realism, and which you use to praise or exonerate the W.C.'s abject failure on the Ruby-organized crime connection. And the bonus in your link is Ruby's discussion of the Hunt-promoted John Birch Society.

Oswald the commie-proselytizing Marine: The Hollywood Blacklist wasn't even broken until '60. Ordinary people were censured and blacklisted for having liberal affiliations. The Marines exerted a harsh discipline at the time, including 'blanket parties' for misfits and trouble makers. If the Sarge couldn't beat you, he could get a bunch of lower ranked people to beat you. One Marine I knew closely from that time had his top teeth knocked out by such a gang, because he beat the sarge in a fight due to the sarge disparaging his mother (part of the break them down re-build them 'training' process). The Marine then had to go to a dentist who was an officer afterward, who said 'you don't need novacaine' while he drilled and pulled the stumps of the teeth. The Marine corp behaved like that through the next decade, when recruits were trained for Vietnam. And America's anti-commie fervor continued for decades afterward. Yet you imagine that the hack TV show writer Bellisario's claim that 'Oswald espoused communism in the Marines' and was nicknamed 'Oswaldovitch' by his fellow marines as a perfectly acceptable 'official story', and dismiss the glaring contradiction to reality this provides with 'what difference does it make'. Good answer, Zap.

Ruby Corrects D.A. Wade at the Press Conference: Should I use a Ouija board to follow your advice, here? I notice your flippant answer doesn't address the question at all. Ignore more huge holes and loose threads in the official narrative, don't trouble yourself about it, but pretend you responded.

Bircher Hunt Family: Evidence to a crime can be offered involving method, motive, or opportunity. The question I raised about the Bircher Hunts' activities showed both method and motive, and IS evidence. The Hunts blatantly and purposefully created a poisonous hate-filled atmosphere, telling people Kennedy deserved death, preparing the way. Their hatred for him and accusations of treason by him shows you their motive. So you dismiss evidence by demanding I provide evidence. Sophistry. I like how you add that 'we've seen this kind of hate directed recently at Obama and liberals in general', because that's what I said in my post (655) here, to earn my 'top woo of the thread' award from you. Somehow in your mind, you saying it to me proves you're right, (unclear what you're right about, though). And you think you're telling me something, when you say something I told you. Your observation is 'informative and laudable', but my identical observation is 'woo'. So you're openly just lying to yourself, and thinking 'this sounds good'.

WC composition: Either you were confused by the question, and thought I was asking you if the Fox News definition of F&B could be applied to the WC, or your judgement is questionable.

About your last sentence, I already thanked you in this post's reply title line for the 3 link citations you dug up, though they really shed no new light on the questions at hand, contain internal contradictions, are contradicted by reality, or contain info that contradicts other things you've said. And no, there isn't anything else you can do for me, you've done so much already. You really can't help me any further, because I estimate your judgement to be as low in quality as you estimate mine to be. We think differently. You accept the most cartoonish versions of reality that the official story can provide, without a blink, while simultaneously typing the word 'woo' to accuse others of being divorced from reality. There's a million things wrong with the official story, and you see none. Impossible to argue with someone who thinks with such iron serenity. I'd rather read info from post-ers who give facts that point out the cartoonish 'woo' of the official story, and thank them for their contributions or add some pieces of actual reality that I know about.
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