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Member since: Fri Dec 10, 2010, 11:36 PM
Number of posts: 53,661

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Sounds bad to me, in the modern world. But doen't people grow their own food?

Or support some local farmers?

Full disclosure: I'm not keen on importing food here. The USA could be a breadbasket nation (more than it may already seen as)
if people quit going with pretty, but unproductive lawns.

I feel certain that Venezuela's climate is good enough to raise its own food. Modernized ways of trade don't seem to work for so-called 'poor' countries. But then, VZ shouldn't be 'poor' and I'm not sure what the percentages of poverty are.

I don't care if anything down there is natioalized, IF IT WORKS.
If it doesn't work - WHY?

You know more anbout VZ than anyone else spewing about it here at DU. Is VZ over populated or urbanized to the extent they cannot grow their own? Did they grow too fast and didn't have the infrastructure to sustain things?

An example of Scandinavian Socialism. called the Nordic Model, which WORKS, shows it is a combination of capitalism, free markets, social safety nets and unversal features.

I first thought that VZ was trying to follow this model. So I was in favor of it. Perhaps some DUers think ALL socialist systems are the same, so VZ really is GREAT.

But they are only held back by nasty American Imperialism and their leaders can never be at fault because they are oppressed by the USA. I say they have the wrong kind of management to run a successful socialist society. For one thing, abortion is illegal. This is not a liberal thing and does not respect the right of women - half he population, to control this and those steps that are used prior to it.

AFAIK, they may not even allow birth control, although they have one of the highest rates of teenage pregnancy in SA . This takes peopel from the workforce and IMO, dumbs down the population. Not that being a wife and mother requre that - but you have no option in controlling that aspect of life, why chase getting and education or job?

Here is what I posted a while back, excuse the length, but I feel Maduro supporters think this is what he's trying to do, so they believe they're defending this:

The Nordic model (or Nordic capitalism[1] or Nordic social democracy)[2][3] refers to the economic and social models of the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Greenland, Faroe Islands and Sweden), which involves the combination of a free market economy with a welfare state.[4]

Although there are significant differences among the Nordic countries, they all share some common traits. These include support for a "universalist" welfare state (relative to other developed countries) which is aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy, promoting social mobility and ensuring the universal provision of basic human rights, as well as for stabilizing the economy, alongside a commitment to free trade. The Nordic model is distinguished from other types of welfare states by its emphasis on maximizing labor force participation, promoting gender equality, egalitarian and extensive benefit levels, the large magnitude of income redistribution, and liberal use of expansionary fiscal policy.[5]

The Nordic model is described as a system of competitive capitalism combined with a large public sector (roughly 30% of the work force).[6] In 2013, The Economist described its countries as "stout free-traders who resist the temptation to intervene even to protect iconic companies" while also looking for ways to temper capitalism’s harsher effects, and declared that the Nordic countries "are probably the best-governed in the world."[6][7] The Nordic combination of extensive public provision of welfare and a culture of individualism has been described by Lars Trägårdh, of Ersta Sköndal University College, as "statist individualism."[6] Some economists have referred to the Nordic economic model as a form of "cuddly" capitalism, with low levels of inequality, generous welfare states and reduced concentration of top incomes, and contrast it with the more "cut-throat" capitalism of the United States, which has high levels of inequality and a larger concentration of top incomes.[8][9]

The Nordic model, however, is not a single identical set of policies and rules in every country; each of the Nordic countries has its own economic and social models, sometimes with large differences from its neighbors.[10] While Sweden's neoliberal reforms[11][12] have reduced the role of the public sector over the last decades, and saw the fastest growth in inequality of any OECD economy,[13] Sweden's income inequality still remains lower than most other countries'.[14]

"The Nordic Model - Embracing globalization and sharing risks" characterizes the system as follows:[15]

* An elaborate social safety net in addition to public services such as free education and universal healthcare.[15]
* Strong property rights, contract enforcement, and overall ease of doing business.[16]
* Public pension plans.[15]
* Low barriers to free trade.[17] This is combined with collective risk sharing (social programs, labour market institutions) which has provided a form of protection against the risks associated with economic openness.[15]
* Little product market regulation. Nordic countries rank very high in product market freedom according to OECD rankings.[15]
* Low levels of corruption.[15] In Transparency International's 2014 Corruption Perceptions Index all five Nordic countries were ranked among the 12 least corrupt of 176 evaluated countries, and Denmark, Finland, Sweden and Norway all ranked within top 5.[18]
* High percentage of workers belonging to a labour union. In 2010, labour union density was 69.9% in Finland, 68.3% in Sweden, and 54.8% in Norway. In comparison, labour union density was 12.9% in Mexico and 11.3% in the United States.[19] The lower union density in Norway is mainly explained by the absence of a Ghent system since 1938. In contrast, Denmark, Finland and Sweden all have union-run unemployment funds.[20]
* A partnership between employers, trade unions and the government, whereby these social partners negotiate the terms to regulating the workplace among themselves, rather than the terms being imposed by law.[21] Sweden has decentralised wage co-ordination, while Finland is ranked the least flexible.[15] The changing economic conditions have given rise to fear among workers as well as resistance by trade unions in regards to reforms.[15] At the same time, reforms and favourable economic development seem to have reduced unemployment, which has traditionally been higher. Denmark's Social Democrats managed to push through reforms in 1994 and 1996 (see flexicurity).
* Sweden at 56.6% of GDP, Denmark at 51.7%, and Finland at 48.6% reflects very high public spending.[17] One key reason for public spending is the large number of public employees. These employees work in various fields including education, healthcare, and for the government itself. They often have lifelong job security and make up around a third of the workforce (more than 38% in Denmark). Public spending in social transfers such as unemployment benefits and early-retirement programmes is high. In 2001, the wage-based unemployment benefits were around 90% of wage in Denmark and 80% in Sweden, compared to 75% in the Netherlands and 60% in Germany. The unemployed were also able to receive benefits several years before reductions, compared to quick benefit reduction in other countries.
* Public expenditure for health and education is significantly higher in Denmark, Sweden, and Norway in comparison to the OECD average.[22]
* Overall tax burdens (as a percentage of GDP) are among the world's highest; Sweden (51.1%), Denmark (46% in 2011),[23] and Finland (43.3%), compared to non-Nordic countries like Germany (34.7%), Canada (33.5%), and Ireland (30.5%).
* The United Nations World Happiness Report 2013 shows that the happiest nations are concentrated in Northern Europe. The Nordics ranked highest on the metrics of real GDP per capita, healthy life expectancy, having someone to count on, perceived freedom to make life choices, generosity and freedom from corruption.[24]
* The Nordic countries received the highest ranking for protecting workers rights on the International Trade Union Confederation's 2014 Global Rights Index, with Denmark being the only nation to receive a perfect score.[25]

The Nordic welfare model refers to the welfare policies of the Nordic countries, which also tie into their labor market policies.

While there are differences among different Nordic countries, they all share a broad commitment to social cohesion, a universal nature of welfare provision in order to safeguard individualism by providing protection for vulnerable individuals and groups in society, and maximizing public participation in social decision-making. It is characterized by flexibility and openness to innovation in the provision of welfare. The Nordic welfare systems are mainly funded through taxation.[26]

Despite the common values, the Nordic countries take different approaches to the practical administration of the welfare state. Denmark features a high degree of private sector provision of public services and welfare, alongside an assimilation immigration policy. Iceland's welfare model is based on a "welfare-to-work" (see: workfare) model, while part of Finland's welfare state includes the voluntary sector playing a significant role in providing care for the elderly. Norway relies most extensively on public provision of welfare...[26]

Jerry Mander has likened the Nordic model to a kind of "hybrid" economics which features a blend of capitalist and socialist visions.[31] According to sociologist Lane Kenworthy, in the context of the Nordic model, "social democracy" refers to a set of policies intended to improve capitalism as opposed to a system to replace capitalism.[32] Kenworthy advocates for the U.S. to make a gradual transition to an economic system similar to those of the Nordic countries.[33] United States Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT), a self-described democratic socialist, has been a strong proponent of the Nordic system.[34][35][36] Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz has noted that there is higher social mobility in the Scandinavian countries than in the United States, and argues that Scandinavia is now the land of opportunity that the United States once was.[37]

According to Naomi Klein, former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev sought to move the USSR in a similar direction to the Nordic system, combining free markets with a social safety net — but still retaining public ownership of key sectors — ingredients that he believed would transform the USSR into "a socialist beacon for all mankind."[38][39]


If you have the time (and I know we all get sidetracked) to be so as to answer my first questions and then read and analyze the Nordic Model and tell how Maduro is or is not working for that model, which is similar to what the USA used in a time of prosperity and social unity.

And I agree, no one should be cheering the failure of things in VZ is there is no solution to replace it. Good luck to VZ. TIA.

Wow, I didn't know you founded the BOG, DeepModern Mom!

It's an honor to have you posting here again. This was my first safe refuge at DU after DU2 turned into DU3 and it was like torture too many days.

I had to make a strong disclaimer (steve2470 still uses it when he posts here) as we were trolled horribly for a while. The occassional one shows up and the hosts talk to them to give a chance. Usually they won't delete something ugly, so they get banned.

I was not here in 2008 and only joined right after the election in 2010 and it was a relief for a short while. The BOG, AAA, HRC and less often HOF are where I've posted. Also steve's Weather Watchers.

Some say it's no worse here than it was in 2008 or 2010, but really this place just - well, forget it. I'm so glad to know you were a force behind this group.

As far as the GOP and the other varieties of haters go, 'They Mad? They Stay Mad!'

Clips of Obama dropping the Mic:

A Heckler 2014:

2015 SOTU:

Happy Birthday!

Loved that scene! But a chorus of "if"s' making their appearance, looks more like:

DUers are a little bit smarter than Darrell (Grand Theft Auto) Issa and Trey (Howdy Doody) Gowdy. At least I think so...

Even better, means she learned. The rest of my post stands. Anyone likes the past better can say:

Whatever happens, some see the worst:

And Cecil was known to be people friendly. Never knew what was coming from this depraved man. What

went through his mind, for he had one to be sure, other than the pain as he suffered in agony?

This dentist also had to pay a settlement for sexual harrassment and was very big on entertaining with blood SPORT, not what he needed to eat.

I remember a scene from a movie, may be all fictional, but when some amerindians took down a deer, they begged his pardon as they did so.

This man is a poster for what will destroy all of us and led me to the conclusion - even though I was close - that the human race is not worthy to live on his planet anymore. As some amerindians and others have said - they will kill everything alive, until they kill themselves as well.

There is still time to reverse this course, but I don't see it happening. I see what Trump did in Scotland. I've seen what clear cutting does. I know what the mining companies are doing around the world. And what devastation to people, animals and all vegetation is done while forsest are destroyed in a wasteful matter to mine one product, like palm oil or copper or coal.

As the Pope said, greed is now destroying the ability of the planet to sustain life. The tribes know this. They have warned us. But people did not listen.

A reading of the writings of Derrick Jensen is chilling. or those of Jared Diamond even if disputed. And still we have the same mentality in Congress, with a Senator tossing a snowball. And before that another one apologizing to BP for the Gulf oil explosion, having unleashed the pressure that held down the oil into an almost volcanic eruption.

I felt at that time, Mother Earth said, 'You want the oil that bad? Here it is. All of it. Drink this cup you sought to have. It will kill you all, but I grant your wish.'

I saw about rescuers who had gone out into the Gulf to save some of the wildlife. Men who had plied those waters for decades. Some of them, after coming back and seeing the animals dying, came back and committed suicide.

Mankind is committing suicide.

Cats like it too! Just no chocolate for the pups, okay? Supposed to be bad for 'em!

Cheetos hasn't had any for years! Gratuitous Pic:

Been there, done that. No matter how much I scream! Got the giggles? Gratuitous PIC:

100% correct as I lived it in my union:

The decline in union membership is more traceable to unions becoming the monster that they were born to fight AND a generation (or more) of narcissistic workers.

But I'm not going to get closer.

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