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Member since: Thu May 7, 2009, 11:59 PM
Number of posts: 16,371

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Imagine if Kaine and Pence Were Switched...

...and Kaine spent the entire debate denying easily verifiable things that Hillary said, refusing to lift a finger to defend Hillary, and started articulating positions that are completely at odds with Hillary's stated views. In so doing, the media take away is that Kaine is positioning himself for a 2020 run and Democrats wish that Kaine not Hillary were the candidate? Finally, what if Kaine's best attribute was to demonstrate by his conduct that he was cool and measured compared to Hillary who was tweeting insults and rants as the debate unfolded?

Would you consider that a win or a betrayal?

Cliff Notes: Glad I Watched The Debate. Tempted To Blow It Off...

...but given the media's spin, it is good to have watched the whole thing. In a nut shell, who won the debate depends on what do you think the objectives of the VP debate are. Are you selling the top of the ticket or are you selling yourself at the risk of distancing yourself from your own candidate?

Pence: Cool and calm. Did not lift a finger to defend Trump. Did not articulate any actual Trump policies. Just offered generalized statements about low taxes and less regulation and strength. Attacked Hillary, but did not really follow through on attacks. Also, made a lot of false denials that will be easily fact checked where I was saying, "Now that is just bullshit, Trump did say that." Also, some of Pence's statements on the importance of allies really departs from Trump's isolationist/anti-alliance/anti-trade views.

Kaine: Very aggressive in both attacking Trump AND defending Clinton. Was overeager at times in terms of interrupting and speaking out of turn. Very detailed and specific, but he simply does not have Pence's RW talk show host voice. Still, Kaine came off as very earnest and sincere with a bit of a voice crack, but maybe a bit overzealous.

Overall: Kaine was a far better attack dog and defender of his nominee. Pence was far better in defending the Pence brand while hanging Trump himself out to dry. So, from a personal popularity/maintain your Presidential aspirations point of view, Pence probably came out better. But, if the job is attack the other party's nominee and defend your own nominee, then Kaine easily came out better.

NYT (1989) - Republicans Settle Suit Over Guards at Polls

Donald Trump is just taking a page out of the GOP voter intimidation notebook.


SANTA ANA, Calif., Dec. 24 The Orange County Republican Party, a Republican legislator and his campaign workers have agreed to settle a lawsuit accusing them of hiring uniformed guards to intimidate Hispanic voters.

* * *

State and Federal agencies are still investigating the posting of guards in a 1988 election at 20 polling places in areas of Santa Ana where Hispanic voters were predominant. Assemblyman Curt Pringle of Garden Grove, the Republican incumbent, defeated his Democratic challenger, Christian (Rick) Thierbach, by 843 votes.

The guards carried signs in English and Spanish warning that non-citizens cannot legally vote.

Hispanic community leaders said the posting of the guards amounted to racially motivated intimidation. Republican Party officials said the guards were there only to monitor the voting.
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