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Gender: Male
Current location: northern California
Member since: Fri Jan 26, 2007, 08:20 PM
Number of posts: 4,775

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The corporate Dems can't even put the lie to the Republicans

because they've been too bought out by the same forces.

They can't speak with authenticity against militarism, against a runaway financial sector, against income inequality, and wealth disparity, against exporting our jobs overseas, because their donors wont allow it, and because it's too obviously disingenuous when they pay it lip service.

This serves to either turn the electorate off from both parties, disengaging from politics, or to make Republicans seem far more reasonable than they are. Many times I have heard Republicans defend their Iraq war advocacy by saying "Hillary also supported it", just to give one example.

Bernie can do all of this and show the nation how incredibly hurtful these policies are to pretty much every single one of us, exposing the Republicans for the frauds they are rather than legitimizing their horrible positions by being only slightly better than they are, which is where the corporate Dems are at.

That's not the whole game, but it's a huge part of it, and many Americans are dying to hear someone who can speak to their interests, who can articulate the nightmare they have been living and the policies necessary to awaken from it.

He'll have to overcome the Dem Socialist label, and most of all he'll have to overcome the massive onslaught of corporate money that both Hillary and whoever wins the Republican nomination will use against him.

He'll have the truth and the support of many highly motivated and energized citizens on his side. For me it's a very easy choice.
Posted by dreamnightwind | Wed Jun 24, 2015, 05:08 AM (2 replies)

No problem

Nice chattin' with you, I can tell you are one of the good ones here, so take care and stick around. I was a child in the 60's but am very familiar with alternative or "underground" media, I think the internet has swallowed a lot of it but some of it is still around. Don't know te Helix, sorry I missed it, northern California though so probably would not have been exposed to it anyway. You are right of course about the usual meaning of the word underground.

In case you don't know any of this, or in case others are reading who don't know, here's some info:

We can't openly advocate for 3rd party candidates, and certain words and modes of dealing with others get you banned, but there seems to be room to be yourself once you learn the rules.

Ask the Administrators and Forum Rules (you already know this one, putting the link here for convenience)

There are also groups (aka forums) within DU, which enjoy special protected status (not sure to what degree the protection holds, but it is helpful). Among them are Populist Reform of the Democratic Party, Socialist Progressives, Bernie Sanders, I'm no doubt forgetting others on the left side of the spectrum, so see what's out there that works for you.

Posted by dreamnightwind | Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:38 PM (1 replies)

Though I share your view of the word underground,

Skinner has gone on record to say that he does not, his intention was nothing of the sort.

You're already quite aware of this, since it was in response to a query from you that Skinner made this clear (and thanks for your query, I had always wondered about the same thing, clearly the site's name is misleading):

We were the "Underground" fighting against the Republicans, who were in power at the time.

Ironically, it seems that many people took the name to mean "Underground fighting against Democrats." I was so naive. Back when I started this site I had no clue so many Democrats hated Democrats.

Skinner himself lists the DLC/PPI website in his website development portfolio, so he apparently worked for the DLC, that should give you some more perspective of how "underground" Skinner's intentions were.


I think its good for more of us to be aware of this, most aren't. It is good to understand where the admins are coming from.

I am not a fan of the DLC wing of the party and policies such as TPP, but consider myself a good Democrat, in fact I feel that I strongly support what this party is supposed to be about, rather than supporting just any politician that chooses to place a D after his/her name.

I try to coexist here yet still state my positions, hopefully that is acceptable. I don't hate Democrats, I hate people pushing harmful policies whether they call themselves Democrats or Republicans.

I used the DINO word earlier today in a post, probably shouldn't have, I had just called Feinstein's office about the TPP and spoken to her staff, and that was my honest opinion after making that call. I could have phrased it differently, shouldn't have to though. Hopefully we can elect some better Democrats who care what we think, my impression of Feinstein has always been that she does not.

Posted by dreamnightwind | Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:33 PM (1 replies)

Damn. It isn't even Corporate America. Fela's Beasts of No Nation

Time for them to stop winning. Bernie is a good first step, if we can get him heard.

Infinite ways to oppose what is happening, Bernie is only one of them. It's going to take a lot of people, a lot of determination, and a lot of heart, using a lot of different approaches to get our lives and world back, if we can do so while we still have lives and a world capable of sustaining them.

FELA vs BUHARI - Beast of No Nation

Posted by dreamnightwind | Tue Jun 23, 2015, 04:17 PM (0 replies)

Yes, and check out the origin and designer of DLC/PPI site, blew my mind

I thought the CPC website was the responsibility of Ellison and Grijalva? Is this the website you mean, or is there another one I don't know about?


For a real contrast, the old DLC/PPI website (which were designed by our own Skinner, 5th site in this portfolio he posted, http://web.archive.org/web/19991014035441/www.onlineworkshop.com/portfolio/ ) are an informative read, you've probably already seen it. DLC Underground would have been a more appropriate title for this place, though I guess he tolerates the likes of us for the most part and allows it to be a general Democratic site rather than strictly New Dems.

It really is about competing world views, which is what I was saying in my response above, Obama isn't stupid or evil, he actually believes that multinational corporatism can be a force for the greater good, IMO. I can understand someone believing that, though I couldn't disagree more. We've been living that vision for too long, and desperately need to take our party back from the monied interests to whatever degree is possible.
Posted by dreamnightwind | Sat Jun 13, 2015, 09:29 AM (1 replies)

Some comments

I often see this showing up here on DU as a rationale for supporting corporate Democrats who many of us feel are working against our interests.

I'm not saying that's what you are doing, I don't know enough about you to make any supposition. So this post may be a little off base for your OP, I'm not sure, it speaks to a larger dynamic I keep running into at DU though.

There is clearly a racial problem in this video.

How do you propose to address fixing it?

Myself, I would be careful about running into the arms of politicians who like to include racially diverse people (and gays) as indicators of sensitivity to those issues. They may or may not be attuned to the racial issues you care about. I get that diversity is a component of that work, if done sincerely. It can also be done to make things look right without being right (Clarence Thomas, Eric Holder, Michael Steele, plenty of examples).

I haven't seen Obama (and for most of his presidency, Holder) do a lot to address these problems, though with a black POTUS and a black attorney general, we might think these problems would get more attention. Do people agree or disagree with me here? I've seen them do more to protect the bankers and the multinationals than to address issues relevant to people of their own color.

I sure haven't seen him do much to address the rampant racism in our police departments, or do much of anything to dismantle the police state which is a problem for all of us. I realize he has done some things in those areas (such as addressing sentencing disparity between cocaine and crack, and his recent move to stop distributing military equipment to local police), but not much, he seems to go out of his way to not be seen as caring too much about the issues of black people. He did make a nice statement about if he had a son he might look like Trayvon, but didn't go to bat much to change the context that allowed for Trayvon to be killed. Holder has shown up in person (Ferguson for instance) and filed some civil suits, not much evidence though of systemic reform, which they were in a position, and had an event-driven context, to push for.

I see Hillary being careful to include people of color, women, and also gays in her staff. Does that mean she will lead the hard work of addressing these problems? Maybe, maybe not, probably a matter of degree. Does she have much or any history to show that is a priority for her? I don't mean words uttered in campaigns, I mean policy that she has put energy into enacting. I know she is now speaking about mass incarceration as a problem, though unlike Sanders I don't see that she has much history fighting against this. She certainly comes up short in the economic justice department.

Pretty much the only post I've seen in this thread that went towards proposing actions leading to improvement was just a post that said education and exposure. I would add police retraining as a high priority, and incarceration, it is amazing the racial disparity of incarceration, though it is too high for all races, we as a nation love to lock people up and crow about being the land of the free. The military also disportionately and very negatively impacts people of color, largely as a result of what is in effect an economic draft.

Exposure is an interesting issue, and it does have a strong economic component, though it is also cutural. I have family from, and in, Texas and Oklahoma, and though the exposure to mixed ethnicities there is higher than my mostly white California hippie community, I am often shocked by the racism in the south and midwest. So exposure can be helpful or not, depending in part on education and also in part on underlying family and peer group racial views that are difficult, though not impossible, to unwind.

There is also a large difference in racism here in California between the inland (more conservative) areas and the liberal coastal areas where I live, though I also understand that there is still a form of more subtle racism here, but the more conservative inland areas are racist hotbeds.

I've always thought conservative / liberal divides falls along issues such as racism, equality for the sexes, support for economic justice as opposed to capitalist exploitation, caring for all living things as opposed to a model of high achievement or wealth or victory, compassionate and sustainable systems that allow most if not all people to have their basic needs met and to have a context where they can live decent lives.

Economic issues are about improving things for everyone (except for the very rich, whose lives need no improvement), and are an enormous problem in our country at this time, much more so than in recent times, and it's getting worse in a hurry. This also disproportionately effects people of color.

Many of our other most urgent problems are enabled by corporate politicians of both parties, with Republicans being slightly worse but corporate Democrats playing a huge enabling role. These include using our tax revenues for military, police, surveillance, incarceration, industrial and financial system deregulation (more broadly the capture of government by industry interests), and supporting industries bringing us impending climate disaster (this includes the whole global trade system, which is an enormous contributor to climate change), plus of course the all-pervasive corrupting influence of money on politics. Racism and sexism, so-called social polices, are sometimes used by corporate politicians who hide behind those issues (it costs the corporations nothing) but do little to actually address them. These issues are problems for sure, I just think people are being misled into electing and supporting politicians that don't have their best interests at heart.

I say all of this only because the whole social justice - economic justice dichotomy so often spoken of on this sight seems to be somewhat false and is used as an excuse to support corporatists, who I don't think really care about the social issues, they care about hedge funds and making millions from speeches to other rich people and getting billions in political "contributions", and use social issues (and often platitudes rather than policies) for cover. Then I see these same issues being used as a wedge against Sanders supporters, and wrongly so in my opinion, speaking for myself I do care about these issues, I just don't see the either-or scenario, I care about these issues because I care about people and all living things, not profits, and I work towards a more just society rather than one based on winning the future, capitalistic excess, or global trade systems whose foundation is labor exploitation.

Apologies if this is not applicable to you or your OP, it brought up this larger DU dynamic I wanted to make an attempt to comment on.
Posted by dreamnightwind | Tue Jun 9, 2015, 07:56 AM (0 replies)
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